#kkc meta

[bookcub]

Kvothe Rejects Denna

Have people realized that Kvothe rejects Denna? Whenever she puts herself out there, he tells her no.

Here are some examples:

When the first meet, she invites him to come with her. He declines, leaving her for the University. Obviously, he doesn't ask her to come with him because he has nothing (he thinks) to offer her. 

When he sees her the second time, he pretends he doesn't remember her name. She follows his lead and pretends the same.

She tells him to steal her. They spend the night talking and he makes no romantic move towards her. He doesn't kiss her, they don't make future plans. They never make future plans. 

She asks him to lunch, she seems him with another woman (Fela) instead. 

When she is high, she asks him to bathe with her and he (rightfully) rejects her. (Side not here, he absolutely did the right thing as she was not in her right mind but she probably remembers this encounter and easily could be like, even when I'm throwing myself at him, he rejects me.) 

She buys him a lute that is worth a small fortune when she has previously stated she has been in poverty and Kvothe doesn't make a move. 

Denna also tells Kvothe he doesn’t push her, after telling him he can put his arm around her, which can easily be interpreted as her wanting him to make a more forward move.

She tells him, “yes,” to his unasked question, ready for it to be anything. And he simply asks her to move over a bit. 

And yes, she is a con artist or a courtesan, so she needs to spend time with other men. But instead of trying to make a relationship work, Kvothe does nothing to move their relationship in a romantic direction. He is too cautious. 

His motivations make sense of course, he is worried about losing her, but their relationship is stuck from developing to a romantic relationship or even a deeper friendship because Kvothe does not communicate his feelings to Denna and rejects the ones she shares with him. 

So the lack of romantic development in their relationship is because of Kvothe. It is not Denna leading Kvothe on, Kvothe is not taking the opportunities she gives him.

[twostepsfromtemerant]

Do you think Kvothe killed Denna when he was using sympathy? I mean, Denna said that Kvothe would never lay a hand on her... and that seems like something that would be worst than his parents death

I don’t think Denna is going to die. Something bad is definitely going to happen in book 3 involving Denna, but I don’t think she will die. You are right in saying Kvothe would never lay a hand on her. He would never do anything to intentionally harm her, except when he’s being a dumbs and insulting her song and life choices. 

As seen from his actions against the fake Ruh troupe, Kvothe has a very specific moral code. He’s basically an Amyr; he does questionable things for what he believes to be the greater good. He is also loyal to a fault. His friends are super important to him, and always keeps his promises. Senna is incredibly important to him, and he doesn’t have a history of betrayal. I cannot think of a single reason for which Kvothe would betray Denna, or that her death would serve the greater good. 

There is the possibility that she could be killed accidentally, but I think that would break him in a fundamental, irreparable way. You’re right; her death might be worse than his parents’ especially if he was at fault. Something bad happened to make him be Kote, but Kote is still mostly functional. I think Denna’s death would break him. 

[noblushingdaisy]

Flower Conversation

// So in The Name of the Wind, Denna and Kvothe have their famous flower conversation. And I thought I would look up what each flower mentioned meant, as we all know Pat sometimes hides secret meanings in plain sight. (also kind of inspired by this anon) (info taken from the wiki page of plant symbolism, so there is a margin of error) (and here and here as well) (pg 424-425 NOTW) 

Red roses: romantic/true love- Denna rejects them

Dandelion: overcoming hardship- Kvothe discards as it is too common

Nightshade: falsehood, also it is a poisonous plant- Kvothe immediately discards, for no given reason

Nettle: life and death, protection- Kvothe discards, as it only suits her tongue 

Wild Oat: Music- Kvothe almost chooses, discards because of “obvious reasons,” which I assume means I missed some sexual innuendo about it 

Daisy: innocence, loyal love, purity, faith, cheer, simplicity-  Kvothe almost chooses and Denna’s favorite flower 

Iris: Good news- Kvothe says is too gaudy

Violet: Giver’s thoughts are occupied with love- Kvothe dismisses because it is too brief 

Trillium: Modest ambition- Kvothe says is too close too the ground

Selas- which does not exist, so only Pat knows 

Bonus round: Willow blossom: green willow stands for false love and creeping willow is forsaken love- the flower Denna picks for Kvothe

I think that I could totally be looking into this too much, but the oat symbolism is a little too on the nose to completely ignore. And I like that daisies are loyal love and willows are forsaken love. That contrast is a little to direct to be a coincidence. Thoughts?

[bookcub]

Denna, a summary in gifs: 

[bookcub]

Lorren as a Modern Professor

you know that teacher that never smiles, but you always want their approval? 

yeah that’s him 

kids recommend books to him all the time and even if he doesn’t read them or isn’t interested, he writes them down 

he is a big believer on encouraging literacy 

and if the library doesn’t have it, he will request it 

students honestly can’t tell if he wears the same thing every day or if he just has five of the same shirts (it’s the second one) 

he ALWAYS wears suits 

he does not own jeans or t shirts 

two students once saw him in the grocery store 

Lorren gave them a death glare and they never mentioned it again 

except once in drunken, hushed voices 

no one believed them that Lorren had a cart full of rubber ducks 

(but he did) (there was tea as well, but they didn’t see that) 

he drinks earl grey tea

he has the same mug every single day and the students have a running pool of what’s in it

they don’t believe it’s actually earl grey 

Lorren emails students the syllabus a month before classes start 

he expects everyone has read it and spends only five minutes on it in class 

you better have read it 

he doesn’t give small assignments, no 

there is reading every day 

SO. MUCH. READING

but only three papers and they are all one third of your grade 

if you don’t want to show up to class, fine 

as long as you did the reading and do the assignments 

his emails are always formal 

“Dr. Lorren” on everything 

you will fail a paper if anything is improperly sourced 

mla is LIFE 

there is a set of encyclopedias in his office 

he cancelled class three times over his 20 year career 

he does NOT get sick 

his office hours start on the hour and end on the hour 

elodin just sometimes shows up in his classes 

and recommends romance novels (which are good btw) (but he does it to piss it off Lorren) 

(Lorren has a large collecting in his personal library) 

(and elodin knows this) 

(it pains him to no end that no one believes him) 

(and yes he recs books from Lorren’s own library) 

[bookcub]

NOTW Scene Count for KKC Characters

In doing this survey of kkc dynamics, I am confused with how people are voting so I decided to figure out how many chapters each character was in. Because I realized some of these characters are barely in any scenes. So here is how many chapters each character is in, whether they just wave or smile, as long as they are present and not merely mentioned, this is their chapter count. Obviously, some chapters are longer than others (Auri’s scenes are pretty long, as are Denna’s scenes) but it was the only way I could do this without letting this project completely consume my life lol. Also, this is only for Name of the Wind 

Denna: 33, 57, 58, 62, 65, 68?, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 83, 84  Total: 18

Sim: 37, 39, 40, 43, 44, 52, 53, 54, 56, 59, 62, 63, 65, 67, 84, 86, 91 Total: 16

Wil: 36, 37, 40, 41, 44, 52, 53, 54, 56, 59, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, 67, 84, 86 Total: 18

Auri: 53, 68, 87, 89, 90 Total: 5

Devi: 50, 60, 70  Total: 3

Mola: 42, 66, 68  Total: 3 

Fela: 38, 42, 43, 62, 66, 68, 90 Total: 7

Ambrose: 37, 42, 43, 47, 54, 56, 60, 61, 84, 85 Total: 10

Elodin: 36, 40, 44, 45, 46, 61, 69, 84, 85, 86 Total: 10

Kilvin: 36, 40, 43, 44, 49, 51, 60, 61, 62, 84, 66, 67, 84, 85 Total: 14

Abenthy: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Total: 8

Hemme: 36, 38, 39, 40, 61, 85 Total: 6

Elxa Dal: 36, 40, 52, 61  Total: 4

Chancellor: 36, 40, 61, 85 Total: 5

[bookcub]

Is it possible that Kote is immortal? 

Think of, “It was the cut-flower sound of a man waiting to die.”

Also, we assume that Haliax can’t die, right? We have confirmation of that? If Kote is waiting to die, why is that? Waiting to live his life out, waiting for self destructing behavior to catch up to him? Or is he waiting to die, for his immortality to run out? We see some of his impulsive, impossible behavior, like fighting the scrael. He didn’t even seem worried. Excited, maybe? 

Thoughts?

[bookcub]

Okay, but, theory time: We have to meet another Edema Ruh troupe in Doors of Stone. We just have to. We have met one (his parents’) in NotW, who were glorified and put on a pedestal. In WMF, we meet the fake Edema Ruh, who are evil and despicable. BOTH GROUPS ARE SLAUGHTERED. Yes, the second one deserved it, but that parallel is not there by accident. We are going to meet a third, who will be more human, neither angelic or demonic. I think they will come in at the end of the frame story. That’s Kote’s happy ending. Joining the Edema Ruh again. I would love if we meet them during the story and then they show up and he joins them. All I know, is it just makes sense, one troupe for each book.