#kny discourse

[pierro-oni]

People that shit on kny just because its popular are not funny.

[mysaldate]

what are your thoughts on kaigaku as a character? your analyses are always interesting to read so i'm curious to hear what you have to say about that... special... boy.

I'm putting this one up front since it's analysis and not headcanons (and also because he's an interesting character).

If you've seen my demon POV masterpost, you already know the outlines of what I'm gonna talk about. Kaigaku, like many other demons, suffered from the POV the story is told from. Furthermore, we didn't even get to see his side of the story, just Zenitsu's. And since we know Zenitsu is the character we're supposed to feel sorry for, I think it's safe to say most of us viewed Kaigaku as little more than another wrench in the lighning boi's life, thus there was little sympathy for him. Ever. Much less when we found out he became a demon.

But there's much more to Kaigaku than a prideful jerk, regardless of what the fandom might tell you. After all, we've been over fandom interpretations that omit backstory for the sake of painting a character in a worse light and Kaigaku's case is no different. But I said there's more to him than that because he certainly is a prideful jerk no matter how you look at it.

Guess what, that doesn't make him a bad guy, not in the slightest. You know who else is prideful? Most the pillars to a certain degree. You know who else is a jerk? Sanemi Most the pillars to a certain degree! That doesn't make them the bad guys in the slightest because somehow their position makes us feel like they have the right to be like that. It's a classic double standard, nothing too unusual both in fiction and real life. We forgive people above us way more than we would ever let slide if it came to someone we consider inferior to us. That might be the main issue with Kaigaku's character as well.

From the very first glimpse we get of Kaigaku, it's clear he respects their teacher way more than Zenitsu does in spite of having none of the warm familial relationship those two have. He scolds Zenitsu when he feels like he's not showing their elder enough respect and we don't see him ever allowing even himself to call Jigoro anything but master up till the moment where he feels neglected and underprecciated.

Honestly, much like in Kyogai's case, much of Kaigaku's anger and many of his actions are caused simply by feeling shunned but unlike with Kyogai, we never got to see a full backstory (+ there's the thing where we're supposed to like Zenitsu so we get to see this from his eyes rather than Kaigaku's). Kaigaku worked really hard and there was just a single technique he couldn't master. Meanwhile, Zenitsu was always crying and running away and didn't properly appreciate their teacher and only ever managed to learn a single technique — and he couldn't even use it consciously on top of that. By plain logic alone, Kaigaku was superior in every possible way. And yet, Jigoro decided to make the two of them equal, make them both become his successors together, thus completely destroying any feeling of achievement Kaigaku had.

And don't get me wrong, you can see where he was coming from too. It wasn't meant to harm Kaigaku or make him feel like whatever he was doing was not good enough for his teacher. But intentions and actual results may often clash. And that's completely fine, that's just how life works. And Kaigaku was mad and wouldn't understand the point of this. That's also fine, that can also happen and we've seen it on the human side of our cast many times already (Sanemi and Genya being the most notable example). Here lies what I believe might be the most controversial part of the backstory though.

We saw how quickly Jigoro got attached to Zenitsu despite Zeni having absolutely no qualifications, no redeeming qualities and no wish to become a slayer. He was a pathetic loser, incapable of even defending himself from an unfair debt. Jigoro not only took him in and cleaned up his mess after him but quite obviously cared for him very deeply.

With Kaigaku, we didn't really get to see much but the fact that he wouldn't ever think of calling him anything other than master (until he became a demon) and even scolded Zenitsu for showing such disrespect hints on a lot. Kaigaku's relationship with Jigoro was strictly proffessional in order to make him strong. There was no tender patient care like with Zenitsu. After all, while Zeni was allowed to only learn a single move, Kaigaku was refused his one ambition because he failed to learn one technique even though he mastered all the others.

It's obvious how this may seem as a double standard, especially if you put yourself in Kaigaku's position. Because it was pretty unfair, let's be honest here.

Of course, we know how this story ends. Kaigaku almost gets killed by Kokushibou but in the last minutes, Koku actually recognizes his strength and offers him blood. Kaigaku, who was already bitter and feeling rejected and shunned, and now also scared of dying, gladly takes him up on the offer. And we can't really blame him for that, we saw people turning into demons for less (playing outside with other kids in Rui's case for example). Not to mention, the rage he feels towards Zenitsu, the way he sees him as something less, that is very similar to how Kokushibou saw Yoriichi. Yet, you don't see people complaining about him being a jerk, at least not so much as you see it with Kaigaku.

And guess what, even as a demon, his eventual inferiority to Zeni is just as much of a burden as it has always been, perhaps even more. Forget the fact Zeni could only master one technique, forget the fact he was a cowardly crybaby up till now. No, in the final arc, he suddenly gets over his issues all at once. Suddenly, he's all brave and selfless and even comes up with an entirely new technique we have never even seen him train or attempt and-

You know what, I'm bitter about what a rushed arc Zenitsu's personal one was. It was out of nowhere, bland, boring and with no build-up. Zenitsu was an annoying character who only ever cried and ran away and hit on girls (and not even normally hit on them, he just went Mr. Creepy on them) and then, one meditation later, he's suddenly badass who is dedicated to a revenge plot? Look, I don't necessarily dislike comedic relief characters and if a character starts like that and then gets developed to be deep and cool, that's even better. But there's just so much cringe and out of nowhere sudden development for Zenitsu that I feel honestly cheated.

TLDR: Kaigaku doesn't deserve the shit he's getting because he's basically Koku but with more reasons behind his jealousy and also because his supposedly better counterpart is objectively worse than him in every way while Yoriichi was at least praised for his actual skills.

[saltybitchonmain]

No the reason muinezu gets hate is because their annoying ass shippers like to demonize Zenitsu to lift their mid ship. Don't pin that on other shippers

I'm well aware of how Zenitsu gets treated by some Muinezu shippers and I think putting a character down for the sake of shipping is dumb, but why are we singling them out specifically. Zenitsu gets a lot of hate in general from everywhere in the fandom, not just those shippers. A lot of people just tend write him off as loud and unbearable, and unlikable in general without looking deeper into his character.

And guess what, Zenitsu isn't the only character to ever get hate because of shipping. Tanjiro gets hate because of ships, Giyuu, Inosuke, hell even Rengoku has gotten hate due to shipping and he doesn't even have any canon options

And do I need to bring up the way female characters get hated on for the sake of ships? Aoi gets hated on by tankana fans due to some dumb headcanon that she liked Tanjiro (and Kanao also gets hated for that same headcanon too). Don't even get me started on the femalea get hate for being in the way of precious shonen yaoi. (The way female characters constantly get treated like shit and erased for the sake of mlm ships in general is a whole separate conversation in itself) Shinobu gets hate from sanegiyuu shippers and she's not even Giyuu's love interest nor is giyushino implied in canon. Kanae is hated for the same reason. Mitsuri is hated by people who ship Obanai with other men, I've seen it with my own two eyes. Poor Kanao DEFINITELY gets hate by Tanjiro mlm shippers. InoTan, ZenTan, MuiTan (even some Gentan shippers have been weird about her). Nezuko even gets some hate due to ships (ironically by genmui shippers sometimes). See how this is a universal thing in general in fandoms? It's not relative to one character.

And what did Zenitsu even have to do with the original post? Anon was talking about Muinezu getting hate from genmui shippers which is very much true. Genmui shippers hate muinezu because they have this weird mentality that Genya or Muichiro can't be shipped with other characters for whatever reason despite how little sense their ship makes, despite how their ship isn't even that good. I guess they get so triggered because they feel threatened, idk. I mean if my ship was a big nothingburger...