[clip] Foolish: “Uhhhh… No, that’s—that’s news to me. Sam, is that true?”
Sam: “Um…”
Dream: “Yeah Sam, is that true?”
Sam: “Ummm… Well, it wasn’t—it wasn’t exactly like that I don’t think…”
*Dream pulls out axe*
Sam: “Uhh…”
Foolish: “Sam, how did it go?”
Sam: “No, no, that’s what happened.”
*Dream switches back to holding steak”
Sam: “It is—it is. That’s—that’s what happened. It—it happened like that. It was—yeah—yeah, it’s… Yeah, that happened.”
Was watching this scene again and I gotta say I just love how in the corner of Foolish’s eye we just see Dream switch to his axe when Sam denies what happened in the prison. Like he doesn’t say anything or even move just pulls out his axe in a not so veiled threat… and oof it really goes to show how afraid Sam was of Dream but also how much denial he’s in that he was about to brush it off, in front of Dream, like it didn’t happen like that and wasn’t that bad. Is it really any surprise that Dream talks about the torture with such nonchalance when Sam probably beat that attitude into him. How many times did he try to use his words to get the warden to acknowledge it.
[28:54] Dream: “You—You said: ‘Yeah, that was regrettable.’ Like, you just, like, spilled your—soup or something… Yeah, I was tortured! For months! That’s not something you just, like, ‘Yeah, I mean, I kinda regret it.’ No. Look, you can own it, Sam. You’re an evil dude. You’re an evil guy. You do evil things.”
How many times did he not have an axe to pull out and force Sam to be truthful…
Oh! Here it is! I updated the lore a bit to read✨(He's the red one:>)
Yeeeeaaahhh I'm really happy to share some things about him it's pretty fun:3
Of course, Mayyybbeee writing wasn't my best strength but I did develop it quite through after the time, also a bit from the older art style hehe (* v * ) Have fun, ofc!
In honour of my previous thread on Enkidu, I would like to bring to attention another older post of mine which I didn't get to share here...
The longest Gilgamesh thread I have ever created thus far...
STARTING FROM THE SILLY BITS!
small keywords for easier reading:
EoG= The Epic of Gilgamesh
Gil= me affectionately calling Gilgamesh "Gil"
Gilgamesh...is a genuinely good dad?
I find it very heartwarming that, in the few sources that we know of, that make him a father that he quite literally named his son "Ur-nungal" to most likely commemorate the goddess of prisons, Nungal (Nun-gal= "great princess"). Not to mention that most of the leading researchers and archeologists assumed Ur-nungal to be a woman simply because of the meaning of the goddess Nungal's name...FGO devs could've done something with this information (potentially give us Ur-Nungal as a servant🥹) or better yet, still use it for the future!
On the topic of Gilgamesh being a father and his relationship with king Ur-Nungal, his son, from the little information that we know of (there is not much context on their life and dynamic, so I am making use of the information that we have)...
I DID sometimes wonder why Gilgamesh would desire to commemorate the goddess by naming his son after her...and after doing some digging, I've discovered that she is widely associated with the underworld. In Sumerian mythos and in their respective culture, the underworld plays a significant role and was often commemorated with celebrations and grand festivals. In the EoG (Epic of Gilgamesh), Gilgamesh's character is associated with the underworld after he journeys on his own in the later parts of the mythos.
We know that Gilgamesh feared death above all after Enkidu's death, but right about the end of the EoG and after his search for the herb of immortalilty is when he comes to accept both the aspects of life and death. I believe that this, as a sign of personal growth, also indicates that Gil and ancient Sumerians unlike more popular cultures in their time, did not view "death" and the after life as a dark, scary place, neither a bad thing. Just what's bound to happen at the end of all mortal existence (that even Gilgamesh couldn't escape).
So, if Gilgamesh no longer viewed death as a bad thing, and if his people themselves believed that we should hold dear all things in life and in death, to name his son after a goddess of the underworld, let alone a goddess of prisons, to me, shows that Gilgamesh really loved his son. He definitely did the greatest of honors by naming Ur-nungal after the goddess Nungal, and it goes to show that he was most definitely a good dad. I doubt he'd do this if he were to not care at all for his son, let alone love him to this extent.
If his dynamic with his son isn't enough to convince you, then we'll have to discuss the other important aspects of his character in his epic, which are that he loves and cherishes his family! As well as his complex relationship with the gods:
We know that Gilgamesh is a big family man and in his mythos he holds his mother, the goddess Ninsun, amongst the highest of regards. She is his guide and his support, and Gilgamesh often makes references and directly asks for her support, even commemorating his journey with Enkidu to his mother. Not to mention that he and Enkidu are foster brothers as Ninsun adopted Enkidu as her own for protecting her son so dearly and Enkidu himself deserving of a home and a loving family.
Enkidu's and Gilgamesh's dynamic deserves a thread of its own (plan on making one soon!), but I find it really amusing that many people misinterput Gilgamesh as a dude that REALLY hated the gods. Shamash, the patron god of the sun, was his literal patron god and Gilgamesh was very clear on his admiration, support and protection for him in his passages. You could argue that in the beginning it IS seen and written that way, but then again, you can tell that Gilgamesh has important and widely different relationships with Ninsun and Shamash.
Shamash, interestingly enough, can be associated with the underworld because he was regarded as a divine judge. Meaning that Gilgamesh's connections with both the living and the underworld are closer than you'd think and are predominantly present to our faces. I believe that FGO did a wonderful job in portraying Gil's closeness to underworld deities like Ereshkigal because in his mythos and in the culture of his people, they DID revere them (not to say that they didn't worship the other gods).
Hidden symbols and commemorations on Caster Gilgamesh's attire (rambling about clothes):
In regards to the gods...I really love the tiny details highlighting his heritage. The horns around his "crown" (consisting of white cloth wrapped around his head resembling a turban with a white veil attached to said cloth, falling down his back and a silver chain necklace with a purple gem that touches his crown) in his Caster variant could either resemble the horns of a cow's (which would indicate Gilgamesh commemorating his mother Ninsun as the goddess of wild cows) or that of a bull's.
Although I do believe that both can be true, I highly doubt that Gilgamesh would want to parade around his reputation in regards to his... interesting reputation with bulls (looking at you Bull of Heaven...). It would be more than fitting that he commemorates his mother because the horns around his crown could be his own way of saying: "the reason for my kingship came from the mother goddess that bore me" or that his reason for being a wise king stems from his mother entirely.
Fate/FGO doing Gilgamesh dirty in the whole department of his canonical physical feats/intelligence:
Next point will get controversial but bear with me for a bit. I highly disagree with how Gilgamesh is perceived in the fandom in regards to his strengths. He is a child of both worlds, he fought Enkidu to a stalemate and shook his kingdom for three entire days-- from the sheer brutality of their strength-- and you mean to tell me that Gilgamesh, even outside of his feats with Enkidu, who wrestled with lions and divine bulls, has no feats in regards to his physical strength and close combat?
Let alone that he has no idea how to use weapons? I find it absurd that Gilgamesh is WIDELY underestimated in the fandom in regards to his combat prowess. In EoG, he is seen wielding axes, swords, spears, shields and his own hands-- but he is not a brute, he knows how to handle his combat. The only thing you can argue about is his combat intelligence, which in ITSELF is called out on by the elders of his council when he makes the brave choice to fight Humbaba. In EoG, the elders say like so:
"You are young, Gilgamesh, your heart carries you off. You do not know what you are talking about".
Which highlights that Gilgamesh is vigorous, bold, cocky and confident as a youth-- you could argue that the passage could also indicate the importance of the elderly amongst the youth which is understandable, but I believe it highlights Gilgamesh's character as a youngster more.
It is a shame that FGO stripped Gilgamesh of the assets that made his character so relatable and human-- but there are more things that were stripped from him that I'd like to discuss as final discussion points for this thread...
Gilgamesh is a dreamer! (In more ways than one)
Gilgamesh's most darling and beloved characteristic, to me, in his mythos is that he is WIDELY and TERRIBLY connected to dreams. Which is interesting from a literature perspective and as a humanities student myself. Dreams are a means to describe or dedicate oneself to witnessing the foretold future or the present. Dreams are warnings, they are visions-- writers will often use them to reveal a side of their characters that only the readers will get to see.
Some of their meanings are never even present and more times than not, difficult to describe or understand. Dreams can mean a variety of things, and EoG has REALLY established that Gilgamesh is a dreamer and very much connected to his soul, his humanity, both worlds and his kingdom. Gilgamesh being a dreamer is very important, because he is frightened by his visions, his dreams. He is frightened because he knows almost always, that deep down, they are warnings, messages that are directly caused from the consequences of his actions. He believes in them, which you may find weird until you consider his humanity and his spirituality. The only way that Gilgamesh was not frightened by his dreams was when Enkidu would twist the meanings of them to turn them into positive warnings and meanings, as was when he'd come and speak of them to his mother goddess, Ninsun.
Ninsun interpreted Gilgamesh's dreams for him, which is not only a wonderful mother and son moment, but also a highlighting feature that gets me to think-- Gilgamesh no matter what, is VERY and I mean VERY cautious.
Being a dreamer and in general being associated with such deep, profound spirituality is what adds more to his humanity. But even more so, the fact fate as a franchise has removed his dreamer and in general dream associations always gets me a tad bit too somber...I believe it would make him more interesting and relatable to the audience-- if it were Archer Gilgamesh it would make more sense because he technically IS young Gilgamesh. Right about when, in his mythos, he began to have them in the first place.
I fear that Gilgamesh is so widely hated and misunderstood in the fandom that he is widely made into a character that his original source material and Nasu's own artistic liberty have never portrayed to begin with. There is no problem with disliking or even hating a character, so long as you get to appreciate the role and aspects that they were written to represent. As always, as a final conclusion...
Gilgamesh (surpisingly even in Fate) is a wonderful portrayal of a king who learns, accepts and appreciates his humanity. He is more than relatable to the audience and a figure of change, which to me is fantastic when you take into consideration the dilemma's that the epic of Gilgamesh presents to its audience as you read more and more through it. My number one favourite character in FGO and amongst the many mythological figures who have drawn my attention for a reason!
As always thank you for reading this analysis! All my sources come from my very torn and loved copies of the epic of Gilgamesh <3 I would love to hear your thoughts!
The latest mayoral election is underway. Voting doesn't start until day after tomorrow, but already there have been attempts at some of the candidates' lives. All except for the Joker, but what did anyone expect? Who let this man run for mayor
In other news, the monsters near the Narrows have been getting restless. Some have been going straight for Red Hood, another mayoral candidate. I've been able to keep up, but I'll have to keep a closer eye on things if I want to keep what I'm doing under wraps. Which I do.
My theory is that monsters can somehow sense how 'important' someone is, and they can decide who to eat based on that. Theory needs refinement, but that's what I got. I'd ask Constantine to swap theories, but he seems a little... depressed lately. Probably related to his recent stint in Hell - can't exactly blame the guy. Either way, it doesn't seem like he's going to be much help until he's in a better state of mind.
I'm sitting on top of Wayne Tower as I write this. I can see Grant Park from here, and Little Italy behind it. I can almost smell the lasagna from the Bella Italia, that little diner Sal Maroni opened a few years ago. Say what you will about it being a mob front, they got good pasta. Overpriced maybe, but never overcooked. Maybe I'll visit after tonight's patrol. I've been in a pasta mood lately.
Mentioned blogs - open to interact if you would like, no pressure ofc :)
Sooo, you said William gets his obsessiveness from his father Vincent...? Does that mean Vincent is obsessive over Rosemary or his business? I feel like it could be either or since it seems like Williams parents might've just married out of convenience or had their marriage arranged since they're both highly acclaimed in business. If William's dad thinks his obsessiveness over MC may make him soft, I get the feeling he may not obsess over his wife then or at least doesn't realize it.
Also, will we see any of their older/younger siblings at all throughout the game or will they only ever be mentioned? I feel if we were to hang around Matthew or Damien (without William not automatically snatching us up ever 2 seconds, lol.) we would eventually meet one of their siblings.
I loved the family info drop! It was so interesting to read the different dynamics in each of the families. Echo's such a sweetheart sending his parents' encrypted birthday emails though. Anyways, love you as always, dear Creator! (◍>ᴗ<◍)❤
---------------------------
1.
Vincent & Rosemary
Vincent didn’t love Rosemary—he owned her. She was another prized possession, acquired through a business deal when her family’s empire crumbled. He admired her beauty, her grace, but admiration wasn’t love—in his opinion ,it was control.
- He never struck her, never shouted.
- Instead, he smothered her in jewels, silenced dissent, erased her past.
When he discovered her affair with Daniel Hartwell—the gentle piano tutor who played Chopin like he understood her—Vincent didn’t rage. He erased it.
- Daniel disappeared—transferred to a conservatory in Switzerland.
- Rosemary’s piano was sold. The music room locked.
And William watched.
He saw his father’s grip on his mother’s wrist, the way Vincent adjusted her necklace in public—"This is mine."
(No wonder William learned love as possession.)
----------------------------
Rosemary & Daniel
----------------------------
Slightly about Daniel:
- Full name : Daniel Hartwell
- Occupation: A piano tutor hired to teach young Mary (William’s sister).
- Appearance: Early 40s, salt-and-pepper hair, warm brown eyes, always dressed in soft sweaters and worn leather shoes.
----------------------------
Daniel was everything Vincent wasn’t—kind, warm, human. Their affair wasn’t passion; it was being seen.
- Stolen touches over piano keys. (while Mary is not in the music room)
- Whispered confessions in the garden.
- Letters hidden in sheet music, words too tender for the Reynolds name.
Then, 13-year-old William found them (letters).
He burned the letters —not for his father, but because he already knew: Love is something you lock away.
-------------------------------
Why Vincent Hates Y/N (and thought that they make William "soft"):
1. Open Devotion
William doesn’t hide his love—he leaves files on Y/N’s desk, memorizes their coffee order. To Vincent, this is weakness. Love should be a private grip, not a spectacle.
2. Fear of Loss
Vincent controlled Rosemary because he feared losing her. William? He burns himself to keep Y/N warm.
3. The Ghost of Daniel
When Vincent sees William look at Y/N, he doesn’t see love—he sees Rosemary gazing at the piano tutor.
Traveling to diffrent worlds. Salem goes alot of places. Some familiar faces in each. Lots of new friends. Each world is diffrent. New horrors and wonders to explore. Little reminders of home in each one. So Salem tells his stories. Stories of dark nights and monsters that lurk. A fox with a goal that left many in fear. Children who was gifts of a being of a powerful being. Stories of a cult that became a family. finding sanctum in places that should have created fear. Gods and their demise. Summerween and Festa Junina and Midsummer. Family made and lost. Royal scientists. Void sanctum. Brothers and sisters and ever growing family trees. Foxes. Wardens. A nether friend. Goodnight fish. A market. Statues. puzzle games and toy stores. A big manor with alot of friends. A farm for her families home. A tower. stood alone on a hill.
She tells stories its heard and lived.
He wants to keep them alive.
So salem tells stories in hope that maybe. Theyll all be remembered too.
