no bc the billy scene in s3 in the sauna probably reminded will of lonnie and now I’m sad.
like will and max’s expressions here are different from mike and Lucas and El’s. Because they’re the two that have grown up with very similar sorts of domestic abuse. (El absolutely faced abuse but the dynamic w Brenner was different whereas billy and lonnie seem to be more similar). Like look at their eyebrows compared to mike and Lucas for example. And the positioning of them in the group parallels them too.
ok so remember when the duffers/st team said that eddie’s death would have major implications/effects for s5?
this might be a stretch but i think those implications could actually tie into a.) gay mike reveal and b.) mike getting vecna’d in some way (not necessarily in the typical way but yknow).
i’ve talked abt this in other posts, which i cant find rn so im gonna explain it again, but mike’s feelings for eddie are also paralled to his feelings for will via the soundtrack and the video store movie poster choices.
long story short: in s3 and s4, the video store posters each represent a character. Mike’s poster is “coca cola kid,” but WILL’S is “teen wolf,” and the character parallels will in many ways, especially in the way that being a werewolf is DIRECTLY paralleled to being gay in the movie, like the main character literally ‘comes out’ as a werewolf and his friend is like ‘are you gonna tell me you’re a fag?’ and the main character is like ‘no im a werewolf actually.’
so, how does this tie to eddie? teen wolf. teenage werewolf. ‘i was a teenage werewolf’ by the cramps is one of the songs that plays during eddie’s cafeteria scene. but the other song that plays is ‘fever,’ also by the cramps. imo, ‘fever’ is about mike’s crush towards eddie, esp considering the lyrics about love and kissing that play during scenes with mike and eddie specifically, demonstrating that attraction, but then ‘teenage werewolf’ links that attraction to Will, too, and how mike feels the same way about Will that he does about Eddie- caveat, Mike is not ‘in love’ with eddie, but IS with Will, but ‘feels the same way,’ simply in terms of being attracted to both of them/thinking gay thoughts LMAO. plus, there’s also a MOVIE called ‘i was a teenage werewolf,’ just like the song, and just like how teen wolf is a movie.
and so, i think that the feelings of attraction are shared but also therefore that the feeling of GUILT about both will and eddie is also going to be shared. not just guilt for being interested in will/eddie/guilt for being gay. i don’t think that’s enough for mike to come out/be targeted by vecna and possibly OUTED, something i also talked about in this post in terms of why mike likely wont admit his sexuality and may end up being outed and how that ties into a mike fake death.
anway, it’s not just guilt over mike’s feeling for will and eddie or his guilt for being gay because imo that’s not quite enough for vecna to end him: it’s guilt over eddie and will’s disappearances and deaths too.
think about it. two people that mike had gay feelings for. both having died/disappeared due to the upside down. troy’s comments about ‘fairyland’ and tying the deaths of people like will and eddie to queerness. mike, who has enough evidence from lonnie and the bullying to suspect that WILL was gay, and in mikes mind maybe could’ve been targeted for that gayness outside of mike’s feelings for him- but mike doesn’t have much reason to suspect that EDDIE was gay/queer. So, in mike’s mind, if being targeted/killed by the UD is associated with queerness, then where does the queerness come in? oh right. from mike’s crush on him. it’s mike’s fault, in mike’s mind.
Mike, finding out about Eddie’s death in s5, trying to talk with Dustin and Lucas about it, and Dustin’s guilt because he was THERE, trying to save Eddie, and Dustin and Lucas not understanding why Mike seems to feel so guilty, and Mike can’t say it, can’t explain his guilt, so it just festers inside of him just like it did for Max and Fred.
Vecna’s victims all seem to have some sort of guilt, but the way that vecna approaches people like Fred and Max, who have guilt related to somebody’s death is actually different from the way that he approaches people like Chrissy, who don’t have that guilt related to somebody’s death (and we don’t see his interactions with Patrick, but we do see that Patrick’s guilt/suicidality is tied to disappointing his family and his father’s abuse towards him, rather than towards having been responsible for anyone’s death)
When it comes to Chrissy, he talks about just bringing her suffering to an end. He says “don’t cry, Chrissy. It’s time for your suffering to end.”
When it comes to Max and Fred, though?
To Fred, Vecna just says “I want you to join me.”
To Max, Vecna says “Time for you to join me.”
People who have guilt about somebody’s death get ‘asked’ to join Henry, but he’s not really asking, he’s TELLING, he’s saying that he wants fred to join him, that it’s TIME for max to join him. And I think that Mike is going to be one of those people, and that Henry is going to ask mike to ‘join him,’ and how that ties into something else I talked abt in this post about how I think that we’re going to get a scene where mike ‘chooses’ to die, so that his suicidality is narratively tied up without having to show him making a typical non supernatural active suicide attempt, and so that Mike gets to fulfill his hero complex. It seems like a choice for Mike, like he’s getting ASKED to join henry, but it’s not really a choice at all, it’s the illusion of choice. Which ties into something I’ve also talked about in regards to mike being suicidal but also pushed towards that suicidality by the actions and attitudes of his family + by the homophobic rhetoric he’s internalized + by the bullying. It’s like how he makes the CHOICE to step off of the cliff in s1, but he’s verbally pushed towards making that choice by the bullies, it’s like the bullies irl who bully queer people to the point of suicide instead of actively murdering them.
We also see a LOT of the red-blue light imagery around mike specifically during the hellfire game: the same red-blue light imagery that we see in eddie’s trailer, and specifically behind eddie, actually, the night that chrissy dies. But why am I bringing this up if i’m saying that Mike is going to get attacked in a different way than Chrissy was/that chrissy’s isnt tied to somebody’s death and Mike’s is? Because it’s an EDDIE death flag, not a chrissy one. Chrissy was already screwed by the time we see those red and blue lights in the trailer, and we see them RIGHT behind Eddie’s head specifically. And so, Mike having that same pattern of lights behind HIS head during the hellfire game? Not only is it a mike death flag tied to Vecna, but it’s a mike death flag tied to EDDIE, the same death flag as eddie, which doesnt mean that he’ll die in the same WAY as eddie, but instead, that Mike’s death will be tied to eddie’s somehow, which fits in with what i’ve said about mike’s guilt about eddie’s death and the links to other deaths + mike’s queerness/feelings for both eddie and will.
It’s also interesting to me that Barb got killed by Henry, but Nancy did not. In terms of queerness, Barb was the one with a crush on Nancy, and it got her killed/targeted by Henry. Mike had a crush on eddie/is in love with Will, and so it may very well result in the same thing, in terms of Henry attacking Mike.
and again, like i talked about in this post, mike is linked to will’s disappearance via his queerness in terms of being the ‘other queer’ that troy talks about and how the other queer is also henry, yes, but its also mike, and how the ‘flying around in fairyland with all the other fairies’ scene serves to demonstrate that the reason that mike is tied to will’s disappearance via the ‘other queer’ comment and how the bullies start targeting mike right after they talk about the ‘other queer’ and how the scene finally focuses on mike after that to, isnt because mike is the other who kidnapped will, but rather, because he’s also queer. the ‘other fairies’ comment serves to expand the idea of ‘other queer’ beyond Henry, and into people like Barb, too, with the ‘other fairies,’ comment, which means that Mike can be included in ‘other queer/other fairies’ and paralelled to that without ONLY being paralleled to henry bc again the point isnt ‘mike kidnapped will/is like henry,’ the point is ‘mike is also queer.’
As well, with that inital parallel between mike and henry both being the “other queer,” it narratively ties mike to a sense of responsibility/guilt for will’s disappearance, esp since it was mike’s house that Will left, even though it wasn’t his fault. So, Mike’s queerness is tied to will’s disappearance already via Troy’s dialogue choices and the choices of focusing on Mike in those scenes every single time that ‘other queer’ or ‘other fairies’ is brought up. like it doesn’t even focus on mike’s reaction when troy says that will is dead during the first homophobic bullying scene (the one where mike gets pushed), but it DOES focus on mike IMMEDIATELY after queerness is brought into the conversation. again i go into this in way more depth in that linked post.
So my point is: there’s already an existing narrative link between mike’s queerness and will’s disappearance and a sense of guilt. And I think that the same is going to apply to Eddie after Mike finds out about Eddie’s death. And like I talked about in one of the posts I linked, Mike imo is more likely to be outed than to come out on his own terms I think, esp in regards to the themes of his character and his queerness and what his character represents in those regards. So, Vecna attacking Mike based not just on his feelings for Will, but instead his queerness as a whole + a mike fake death? It addresses Mike’s suicidality, it addresses Mike’s sexuality outside of Will, which ties into gay mike and the milkvan breakup and into Byler getting together, but does it in a way where Byler getting together isn’t JUST tethered to the revelation of Mike’s sexuality and instead gets to stand on its own and be about Mike and Will’s love as individuals instead of just ‘oh yeah mike is gay and hes getting with will because will now knows mike’s gay despite the unresolved interpersonal tension between them regardless of sexuality’.
Like again- Mike being queer IS paralleled to the cause of Will’s death/disappearance during those death scenes in S1. The ties are there, not just to Will’s queerness playing a role in his vanishing, but MIKE’S too, with him being featured as soon as the ‘other queer’ is mentioned, or the ‘other fairies,’ are mentioned, and how using both ‘other queer’ and ‘other fairies’ means that mike isn’t SOLELY paralled to henry/his queerness isn’t SOLELY tied to will’s vanishing, but it is tied to it in ADDITION to being tied to the ‘other fairies’ and positioning Mike alongside the victims (like barb and will) instead of just positioning him alongside henry (the other queer comment and the framing of mike immediately after that’s said and how it ties him to henry/ties mike’s queerness to will’s disappearance).
(obviously mikes feelings for will are way way deeper than his ones for eddie and he just had a crush on eddie but still.)
Anyway! Much to think about.
Saruman and Sauron vs Will Byers and Henry Creel and some s5 predictions (this is that lotr post i’ve been talking about)
It’s time for some will and saruman parallel thoughts & why I think will is going to witness his s1 vanishing from Henry’s pov in s5 via his bond with Henry and some other S5 plot thoughts!
I also have this writeup formatted in a google doc here.
Introduction
So, to start off, this drawing from the show haunts me: why?
Because it’s a direct visual parallel of this scene:
Palantirs
Now, let’s take a closer look at that orb- ponder the orb, if you will. The orb that Saruman has isn’t just any old orb, it’s a palantir. But what is a palantir, and what does it do? How does it work? And how does all of that translate into Stranger Things?
There’s eight palantir in total, but only seven in Middle Earth specifically (i’ll get more into middle earth vs arda vs ea a little later on), and so they’re generally known as the ‘seven seeing-stones’. And there’s two main ones that I’m generally going to focus on in this analysis, although the others tie into it too: the one that Sauron has, and the one that Saruman has.
So, what is a palantir and what does it do/how does it work and how does that tie to ST? Let’s look at some excerpts from the LOTR wiki to help explain:
"The palantíri, in appearance, were dark, perfectly smooth spheres of varying sizes; some were small and portable, around a foot in diameter, while others (particularly the master-stones) were too enormous to be lifted by Men. They were completely unmarked or unmarred, and even when unseated, they remained inviolable. The stones had permanent poles aligned with the center of the earth, with permanent upper and nether poles.
The circumferential faces were the ones that allowed viewing, receiving outside visions, and channeling them to the eye of the beholder on the opposite side; if one wished to look east, he would place himself on the western side of the orb, etc. Unlike the master stones, which could rotate and look in any direction, the smaller ones had fixed positions so that when looked at from a wrong direction, the face would appear blank to the surveyor. The palantíri could not transmit sound; they could only show visions or intended thoughts of the users.”
Will and Henry’s connection is like two master stones/master palantir communicating with eachother, as their connection goes both ways equally, Will is a double spy. The connection that Henry makes with somebody like Max, though? (Because Henry DOES make a psychic connection when he attacks). That connection is more like a master stone to a smaller stone. The smaller stone can still see into the mind of the master stone user, just like how Max could still access Henry’s mind, but only from the ‘right direction,’ in terms of smaller palantir, Max could only access Henry’s mind when Henry was making an active connection- max, on her own, cannot make a connection with henry/doesn’t have a two way connection with him outside of when he’s attacking her, which at that point, there is a small two-way connection, which is how max accesses vecna’s mindscape. Will, on the other hand, DOES.
“In one direction, they could see for leagues, with the farthest places offering the least clarity. Their vision was not based on obstacles but on darkness; they could see through things but would only see shadow- nothing within could be discerned. This was a method of security which protected the sight of the surveyor. Magnification was also possible for those with an extraordinary will; only the most potent and determined could accomplish this. Palantíri could not pierce minds, for the transference of thought depended upon the wills and intentions of those communicating.”
“When two stones were communicating with each other, then another viewer from a third stone would find them blank. The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on these mental conversations, however. Some stones were attuned to each other, for example the Ithil-stone and the Anor-stone, as these belonged to the brothers Isildur and Anárion and were mounted in sister cities.”
‘The furthest places offering the least clarity,’ This ties into how Henry’s connection with Will is weaker when Will’s away from Hawkins/further away from Henry, just like how Will's now memories/connection to the mf/Henry in s2 became stronger as the tunnels expanded into hawkins/got physically closer to Will.
“Their vision was not based on obstacles but on darkness; they could see through things but would only see shadow- nothing within could be discerned.” Henry’s ‘vision’ is based on darkness- he can’t get into the light memories unless he’s able to corrupt them, he can’t ‘see’ those memories, can’t access them unless he can corrupt them first, it’s like his corruption is the path for him to get into them, he can only ‘see in the dark’.
HOWEVER, with that said, we also know that “Magnification was also possible for those with an extraordinary will; only the most potent and determined could accomplish this.” So, “magnification” in this context basically is the same as Henry corrupting light memories in order to enter them- someone of strong will can “magnify” the images of a palantir/see more clearly in the dark- Henry “magnifies”/is able to see into peoples’ light memories by using his psychic willpower/strength to corrupt their memories.
“When two stones were communicating with each other, then another viewer from a third stone would find them blank. The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on these mental conversations, however.” THIS has some implications for Mike, actually. So, a third non-master stone/’eavesdropper’/outsider cannot hear what is being said between two other stones, but a master stone CAN. So, if El or Will was making/had made a psychic connection with somebody like Mike, somebody powerful like Henry would be able to eavesdrop on this connection. All of those shots where it’s almost like somebody’s watching Mike? And some of the evidence that Mike may be even partially ‘possessed’? That would align with Henry ‘eavesdropping’ onto a psychic connection that’s being created between Mike and El, for example. So then, there’s a chance that via El or Will, Henry has gained access to Mike’s mind after eavesdropping on him throughout the seasons- and looking at Mike’s monologue, it’s interesting to me that they show closeups of him holding El’s hand, much like how El grabbed her mother’s hand and made a psychic connection with her. Henry may have used El’s connection with Mike as a sort of launching pad to make his own connection with Mike, whereas previously, he was just watching Mike through El or through Will.
Will and Henry’s connection (two master palantirs) allows them to see into eachother’s minds, but is so strong that they cannot see anything OTHER than eachother’s minds (and their own minds), and therefore, Henry cannot spy on Mike via Will bc he can only see Will’s mind, rather than see through Will’s eyes.
With Henry and El, though, Henry can get into El’s mind and El into Henry’s, but bc Henry is more powerful, he can go beyond just her memories too, he’s not like. Locked into her memories the way his is with Will’s, and so he can use El as a minor palantir to be able to look thru her eyes and see Mike, whereas with Will, he can’t do that bc he’s locked into Will’s memories. This gives Henry greater access to Will and makes Will more susceptible to him than El is, but also gives Will a better chance of fighting him off bc Henry is in his memories he’s but he’s more LOCKED in there.
This would also explain why Henry wanted to possess Will via the MF- when Will was possessed, their connection acted more like a major palantir to minor palantir/more like a more powerful verson of Henry and El’s connection, because Henry was now able to see through Will’s eyes & wasn’t locked into Will’s mind/memories. This is also why we get the “now memories” when Will’s possessed but not so much in s4- because Will was seeing through Henry’s eyes in s2 just like how Henry was able to see thru his, rather than being locked into eachother’s memories/mindscape. Will was still a spy/double agent when possessed, but he was actually MORE of a double agent when not possessed (his connection w henry predates his possession) because Henry is the one dominating the connection when Will is possessed, which is why Will doesn’t see henry’s mindscape, but instead, sees the visions of the tunnels, because that’s what Henry’s choosing to show him, which is something I’m going to talk about next, because people using palantirs cannot create false images but rather, pick and choose what images/part of their mind they're going to show to the other user. The ability to do this depends on the mental strength of the user & user’s ability to dominate that connection, which is the same as how Henry and El’s powers work: they’re trying to dominate the connection when they psychically fight eachother and launch eachother across rooms.
“According to Gandalf, it is beyond Sauron and Saruman's skill to create the palantíri and that Sauron cannot make the palantíri "lie" or create false images (though the latter could show selective images to foster a false impression in the viewer). The palantíri were not initially inherently dangerous to use, however after the Ithil-stone was captured by Sauron in TA 2002 they were no longer used by Gondor's rulers, as users could be ensnared by the Dark Lord, as later events were to show.”
Just like somebody using a palantir, Vecna/Henry can hide parts of his memories, he can manipulate people like Will’s perception of events, but he can’t create entirely false/new memories, especially not when it comes to somebody viewing HIS memories, he can hide parts of his own memories to make the person (Will) viewing his memories confused/warp his perception based on a lack of context/lack of memories (much like El with Nina & how she didn’t have ‘new’/wrong memories, but instead, was MISSING part of her memories, and those missing memories warped her perception and made her believe that she killed the kids). The memories aren’t entirely gone, and new memories haven’t taken their place- instead, some of the memories are missing, which results in a warped perception of events.
Henry literally describes his own powers in the same way: as ‘holding a mirror’ up to his victims. His visions/attacks aren’t just creating random false images for the sake of torment, instead, it’s based on the victims’ trauma and guilt and personal experiences. It’s not technically a lie, just a warped version of the truth.
And as well, with palantirs, this ties into Will’s s2 episodes BEFORE he got possessed- because those visions are NOT the same as now memories. Like I said, with a palantir, you cannot create false memories to show the person on the other side of the connection- but you CAN, if you are powerful enough, (which Henry generally IS), pick and choose which memories/parts of your mind you want them to see.
Which is how Sauron manipulates people without outright lying- he distorts the truth, just like how Henry holds a mirror up to people. Sauron hid parts of his own memories to try and convince Denethor that Sauron had already won. Just like how Henry hides parts of his mind/memories to try and convince Nancy and El etc that he has already won
And so, wills s2 visions (not the now-memories): those tie into the palantirs because they weren’t fake, vecna didn’t just make up smthn random for him to see bc Henry can’t do that- instead, Henry was picking and choosing what parts of Henry’s mind Will could see, even tho henry and Will were still trapped in eachother's minds so to speak, henry bc he was more powerful, was able to HIDE parts of his mind.
Non possessed Will’s connection w henry = two master palantirs communicating
Possessed Will’s connection w henry = major and minor palantir, more like el’s or max’s connection w henry, henry is now the one dominating the connection & is able to see through will’s eyes more, but the two-way connection is still there (will’s now memories of the tunnels), just like how a two way connection IS still there with a major and minor palantir, but the connection is dominated by the major one & henry is more able to manipulate which memories will is seeing compared to will being able to manipulate what henry is seeing.
“Denethor II, the last Ruling Steward of Gondor, attempted to use the stone in his later years to gain knowledge, but too often only saw what Sauron wished him to. Sauron convinced Denethor over time that there was no hope for victory.”
This sounds a LOT like not only Henry’s visions to people, but the vision that he showed to Nancy specifically, trying to make her feel as if all hope was lost, showing her images of her family dead and of a giant, dragon-like beast. Sauron didn’t create fake images via the palantir, because he can’t do that- instead, he choose which images/real memories to show Denethor & hid certain ones so that it seemed like Sauron was winning. And also: denethor as a person is weaker than sauron, so he’s unable to see past sauron’s manipulation/perspective warping/hiding stuff. But when it comes to will and henry, it’s likely that will WOULD be able to see past that at this point.
SO! Long story sport, Will’s orb in the drawing is paralleled directly to the palantir, it’s a visual representation of his two-way connection with Henry, of being a double spy, of him and Henry being able to see into eachother’s minds. Time to shift away from palantir briefly, but we WILL come back to them.
Some Backstory About Sauron, Saruman, and Morgoth
In a later section, I’m going to do a deeper dive into the bond between Sauron and Saruman, because imo it’s a misconception that Saruman just sort of chose to work for Sauron, or that the Palantir is entirely what convinced Saruman to join Sauron, and it’s actually a more complex bond than that,
So, to begin with some backstory to set the stage for discussing Sauron and Saruman’s bond later on: Sauron is not the biggest big bad of Tolkien’s universe (I’m not saying ‘’middle earth,’ because Tolkien’s world goes beyond Middle Earth into Valinor, and Valinor is where a lot of this took place: the in-canon name for “Tolkien’s universe”, is Eä, and the ‘earth’ itself, including Valinor and Middle Earth is Arda- Middle Earth and Valinor are like continents on Arda and Arda is like a planet in Eä if that makes sense), instead, that title belongs to a dude named Morgoth. Sauron and Morgoth are not the same sort of “creature”/entity/being/species, but Sauron and Saruman ARE.
Morgoth = Valar
Sauron = Maiar (Maiar of Aule)
Saruman = Maiar (Maiar of Aule)
Now, Morgoth isn’t super relevant right now, however, I’m going to use him to explain what a Valar is & why that’s relevant to setting with the stage for how Will and Henry parallel Saruman and Sauron. So, Valar are basically like the pantheon of “gods” of Eä, and groups of Maiar are associated with each Valar. And “Aule” is a Valar just like Morgoth (except not evil), and both Sauron and Saruman are Maiar of Aule, whereas Radagast for example, is a Maiar of Yavanna. So, not only are Sauron and Saruman both Maiar, they’re Maiar of Aule. Maiar and Valar are, again, different species, whereas being a Maiar of Aule is almost like being the same ‘race’.
Why is this relevant to ST? Henry and Will are both humans, just like how both Sauron and Saruman are both Maiar, but it goes deeper than that, because just like how both Sauron and Saruman are Maiar of Aule specifically, Will and Henry have very similar/paralleled backstories and queercoding.
Parallels Between Sauron and Henry Creel
Sauron, just like Henry, was not always evil- just as Henry was a normal human with powers at one point, Sauron was a normal maiar with powers. However, much like the way that Brenner manipulated & ‘’’trained’’’ Henry, Morgoth did something very similar with Sauron when getting Sauron to join him.
Sauron’s ‘fair form,’ known as Annatar, is VERY similar to how we see Henry looking younger and more attractive in S4 during the Nina project memories, and Sauron used this handsome mortal form to charm and manipulate people.
Sauron’s shapeshifting abilities vs Henry’s: we see Henry shapeshifting in peoples’ visions when he attacks them, like when Max thinks that she’s hugging her mom but it’s actually Henry. Plus, there’s quite a bit of evidence that I’ve talked about in other posts pointing to the idea that the S1 ‘demogorgon’ that took Will & that El fought in the school was actually Henry. Sauron is also capable of shapeshifting in very similar way to Henry.
Sauron being known for manipulation and deceit, just like how henry manipulates people like el
Vecna in DND has a phylactery to store his soul in- the one ring is sauron’s phylactery. Sauron literally poured part of his soul into it, the worst/cruelest part of his soul.
The one ring works in a very similar way not only to a phylactery but also to henry’s powers: henry describes his powers as ‘holding a mirror up to people,’ and amplifying their worst trauma/guilt. Henry doesn’t just create *random* horrifying images, instead, it’s based on amplifying the existing emotions and bad memories of his victims and making them face their own traits. The one ring is basically identical in terms of how it works: it doesnt just ‘make people invisible or evil,’ instead, it amplifies the existing powers and qualities of the user, for good or for bad, it’s like holding a mirror up to the wearer and reflecting their good and bad qualities right back at them and magnifying them. This is why bilbo and frodo turn invisible when they put it on- hobbits are sneaky and are described as figuratively being ‘invisible’ to the ‘big folk’- so, the ring amplifies this and makes them literally invisible.
There’s very very likely more parallels, but for right now, these are the ones i’m using!
The Parallels Between Saruman and Will Byers
The visual parallels between Will’s drawing of Will the Wise with the orb vs the LOTR Saruman scene with the palantir
Will’s wizard name/title is “Will the Wise,” just like how Saruman’s was “Saruman the Wise”.
“Saruman of Many Colours”. This was Saruman’s new title, and reminds me of the rainbow imagery with Will, including his rainbow ship.
Being a double agent/a spy: Saruman was a double-agent for Sauron vs for the Istari wizards & frequently did whatever was best for his own personal interests. This parallels ill being described as a spy/having a two-way spy connection with Henry/the mindflayer.
Saruman being a Maiar, which means that he exists in two dimensions at once at all times (smthn im going to elaborate on/explain later), and Will’s s2 UD episodes and the way that he’s physically moving in the UD and real world in the same way at the same time, literally existing in two dimensions at once.
Having a connection with Sauron via a master palantir, but it was a connection dominated by sauron due to sauron’s strength/power and manipulation of what images saruman was seeing, much like Henry’s connection with Will
There’s very very likely more parallels, but for right now, these are the ones i’m using!
The Connection/History Between Sauron and Saruman and the Ties of This Connection/History to Henry and Will’s Connection/History
SO! Saruman and Sauron were both maiar of Aule living in Valinor. Just like how there’s all the Will-Henry parallels and Henry very likely targeted Will because he reminds Henry of himself, part of why saruman joined sauron is the same reason, with them both being powerful Maiar of Aule, who had a love of creating things Saruman, as Maia of Aule, was always going to be in danger turning evil- maiar of aule are not inherently evil by any stretch, but instead often have qualities, such as a love of smithing jewelry or weapons/general love of creation, that allow them to be more swayed towards evil/greed/possessiveness. Saruman didn’t ‘turn evil’ because Sauron turned evil but because of the same reasons Sauron turned evil (ie, henry trying to get will to join him bc theyre both similar).
In the book “Peoples of Middle-Earth,” there’s an essay titled “Istari’, which talks about how Aule chose Saruman as the leader of the istari, and how this show that Aule seemed to believe that Saruman was capable of rivalling/challenging sauron/that they were similar in power and in nature and in backstory and in terms of their traits and how Saruman was the one to drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur initially. Sauron was the most powerful maiar before he ‘turned evil,’ and so then when sauron left, saruman was now the most powerful. They’re paralleled to eachother, much like Will and Henry, they have many similarities, but are not exactly the same.
Saruman ended up alongside Sauron because of the shared traits/abilities/parallels/similarities between the two of them, just like how Will was likely targeted by Henry because of their shared traits/upbringing/queerness/parallels/powers. However, Saruman is also still a double agent in LOTR. He’s not fully on the side of Sauron, but also not fully on the side of the Istari,, he wasn’t fully swayed, instead, was a double agent trying to fulfill his own goals.
“When Saruman used the Orthanc-stone, Sauron convinced him to join him.”
This excerpt from the LOTR wiki is true to an extent but doesn’t tell the full story & frames it as if the palantir was the majority of the reason sauron joined saruman but in reality, it was the underlying similarities between sauron and saruman that made saruman more susceptible to being influenced by sauron via the palantir in the first place- plus, despite siding with sauron during a portion of lotr, sauron is still very much portrayed as a double-agent/’morally grey’. Saruman’s similarities to sauron are exactly what sauron exploited via the palantir to attempt to get saruman to join him, much like how in s5, Henry is likely going to try and exploit the similarities between will and try to get will to join him, which is going to tie into my idea that will is going to witness his s1 vanishing from henry’s pov via his connection with Henry.
And this is where things get interesting imo & comes full circle back to what I talked about in the beginning with the palantir & why I think that Will’s going to witness his own vanishing/time in the UD from Henry’s POV via his two-way connection with Henry, and why IMO, Will has repressed memories of those events, but in spite of that, is still 100% certain and right that Henry is the one who took him. So, let’s look at a Tolkien quote:
“For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly."
Now, what does this actually mean, and what implications does it have for Will and his connection to Henry? Well, this is basically Tolkien’s way of saying ‘repressed memories’. Saruman is aware of the similarities between him and Sauron that eventually lead him to be swayed by Sauron in LOTR in the sense that he’s aware of the existence/results of sauron’s traits but not really the details, and when Tolkien talks about ‘embodied,’ he’s talking about when Maiar, like Saruman, take on a more tangible physical form (because theyre more like spirits), which is why Saruman looks like an old man in LOTR. So, after Saruman got that body and came to middle earth from valinor, his memories of Valinor were repressed.
“the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off” The memory isn’t gone, it’s just too far to access- they haven’t fully forgotten the Blessed Realm/Valinor, but they can’t fully access those memories, their perception of it is warped, much like will’s perception of the night he vanished.
And here’s another interesting part of that, too: “(so long as they remained true to their mission)“. Why is this interesting? Because Saruman didn’t remain true to his mission. He’s going to have even more repressed memories than somebody like Gandalf, because Gandalf’s memories are far-off, but not gone, as long as Gandalf remains true to his mission- but Saruman doesn’t remain true to his mission in the end, so he’s also going to begin to lose those far-off memories as he strays more and more from his mission.
“the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience “ this is basically exactly what El did with Nina, she was learning to walk again/swim, just like Brenner described, and Will is going to do the same thing in s5 IMO, but in a slightly different way: he’s going to witness his vanishing through Henry’s eyes, because Will’s own perception was so warped that night due to him likely being in a Vecna vision, and so Will is missing memories/has repressed memories in the sense that what was actually happening to him/around him is different than what he was seeing, different than much of what the AUDIENCE saw that night.
But he doesn’t fully properly remember the events- his perception is warped via the fact that parts of his memory are repressed, and so he’s not seeing the full story, which warps his perception, just like El with Nina & thinking she killed the kids & how her missing memories warped her perception.
“and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off”. The “and though they knew whence they came'' part is interesting to me as well, because it’s just like Will and his warped perception/possible repressed memories- he knows “from whence he came,” he knows that he was in the UD, but doesn’t really remember what the UD was like (in a way), like i don’t mean he doesnt have trauma from it/doesnt remember at all, I mean that his perception/memory of it has been warped. He knows he was there, but struggles to really know what ‘there’ was like and what was a vecna vision and what wasn’t. But just like Saruman knows that he has a connection to sauron via their shared traits and both being maiar of aule, Will KNOWS that henry is the one who took him/who he has a connection with.
And here’s a VERY important part- Istari, like Saruman, have repressed their memories of their time in Valinor/have a warped perception of it, but Sauron does not.
Saruman and Sauron are both Maiar, and both Maiar of Aule at that, but they are NOT both Istari, and only the Istari lost those memories. The wizards in LOTR (Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman, Pallando, and Alatar), are all Maiar and also all Istari/wizards. Maiar is a species, Istari is like a cross between a race and a club in a weird way. All Istari are Maiar, but not all Maiar are Istari- and Sauron specifically is NOT one of the Istari. Sauron didn’t ‘embody’ a body in the same way that Saruman did, Sauron isn’t stuck to that one form the same way that Saruman is.
Saruman does not fully remember the similarities between him and Sauron/how Sauron was in valinor. But Sauron fully remembers these things, and THAT is the core thing. So, hypothetically, Saruman could, through a master palantir, gain access to sauron’s mind/memories and possibly witness his own repressed memories from sauron’s pov.
And so, something similar is likely going to happen with Will and Henry: Just like how in theory, if Saruman was strong/powerful enough, Saruman would be able to use a palantir to see Sauron’s memories of Saruman/of Valinor, (which is paralleled to Will’s vanishing), Will is going to use his connection with Henry to find out what really happened that night & is going to see it through Henry’s eyes, which is going to be how all of the weirdness and perspective fuckery from s1 ep/will’s vanishing is resolved both for Will AND the audience.
There’s also something else I want to talk about:
“And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power."
This quote is about Elves on the surface, but this and other passages confirms that Saruman lives in both realms at once. The Blessed Realm/Valinor is where all maiar are from. Saruman has 100% dwelt in it, it’s where he lived prior to coming to Middle Earth. Saruman, being a Maiar/from the Blessed Realm, means that he exists in two realms at once- the physical world and the spirit world. He’s not just able to travel between them- no, specifically, he exists in both at once, JUST like Will in his s2 visions where he was running physically in the real world AND in the UD- he was in two realms at once, stuck between the slides. As well, I mentioned this earlier, but sauron is pointed out repeatedly to be considered a ‘morally grey’/double agent character: he’s in the middle, he’s between things, and will’s double-agent imagery is also tied to him being like a ‘double agent’ between dimensions, able to be in both of them at once.
Conclusion/Summary/Reiterating the Implications That All of This Has for S5
Will is going to witness the night that he vanished from Henry’s pov, just like how Saruman, in theory could witness his own repressed memories via sauron’s pov through a palantir (palantirs being representative of the connection between will and henry)
Mike is likely being watched by Henry/Henry has possibly already been messing with his mind or at the very least watching him/possibly made a connection with mike’s mind during the monologue, which would explain those shots of mike being ‘watched’ and explain a lot of things that @dinitride-art has talked about with possessiongate
Will is able to go between dimensions/more SPECIFICALLY, he is able to exist and function in two realms/dimensions at once, which is something that I’ve posted about before & am going to elaborate on in my vanishing of will byers analysis.
interesting how will feels like the girls are ruining everything in s3- just like how mike felt like max was ruining everything in s2 with trick or treating & joining the party etc.
