#misseffie

[arsenicandfinelace]

(part 1) Huh. That GRRM quote about running off with the stable boy is interesting. Mainly because Arya and Gendry definitely fit into that category. And “My Featherbed” seems to fit imply it too. I don’t know what that means for them in terms of the books tbh. Maybe Gendry will be legitimized in the end. Maybe he won’t and that’s why Arya and Gendry can’t be together. Maybe Arya has to take a position of leadership and put her duty and loyalty to the Starks over her love for Gendry.

(part 2) I’m one of the people who thinks Arya might end up as QitN in the books - which would probably get in the way of Arya and Gendry. It makes more plausible sense than the reason we were given on the show (Arya leaving everyone she loves because she wants to sail). It would fcking suck tbh, but it would follow GRRM’s style I guess. As idyllic as Gendry and Arya running off to be outlaws is (and something Arya fantasizes about at one point), it doesn’t seem like something GRRM would do.

A lot to unpack here. To start, is it possible that Arya will be forced to give up Gendry or something else she desperately wants at the end? Yes, GRRM is a monster. But I don’t think it’s likely in that context.

Above all, it’s important to remember that there is a war going on. Two wars. A massive, draining continental war, and then the war to end all wars, the friggin’ Apocalypse. And the thing about war is that rules break down. I hate quoting Littlefinger, but he did have a point when he said chaos was a ladder. In a nice au where all the Starks are alive and things are relatively stable, there is no way in hell that Arya can marry a bastard blacksmith, not even if he’s recognised but not legitimised and made Robert’s heir. The Starks would not let her, not even Ned. So if she falls in love with him in an Everyone Lives AU, she can’t have him.

But when war comes - let alone two wars, where one of them is the Apocalypse - the boundaries break down. Bastards like Jon and Ramsay get made their brothers’ and fathers’ heirs. Vassal houses like the Tyrells or the Boltons can step over their liege lords’ smoking corpses to become rulers. And unlikely, imbalanced relationships and marriages can spring up, like Alys Karstark and the Magnar of Thenn or Harry the Heir and “Alayne Stone”.

So yeah, in the chaos of war and doomsday, I think Gendry being a king’s bastard (and a landless knight!) won’t be huge impediments in the end.

As for Arya becoming QITN, I agree, I think it’s a possibility. Arya has queen imagery; while her sister named her direwolf Lady (and Lady died immediately, ouch), Arya named hers after a queen who brought her people to safety. In fact, more relevant than Arya’s queen imagery is her life imagery - and no, I’m not talking about her power of life and death in the HoBaW.

Arya has a lot of imagery and symbolism related to the life cycle: water, trees, acorns, the moon, various animals. These are symbols of natural feminity (as opposed to her sister’s stylised manufactured femininity, which is seen in her love of garden flowers and pretty dresses), or necessary but unforgiving elements like ice and fire. Whether she’s wearing a crown or not in the end, I think Arya will have a huge burden of responsibility as someone who’s destined to help rebuild and renew society in the wake of the War for the Dawn’s destruction. (I think Bran, Tree Boy Extraordinaire, will play a part too, but I’m not holding my breath for the rest of the Big Five surviving.)

I mention this because while those symbols I mentioned above are symbols of female fertility, do you know what’s a symbol of male fertility?

Bulls.

Bulls represent virility, strength, and industriousness, like water and acorns represent rebirth and adaptability. 

Plotwise, the social order will basically have crumbled to a place where it’s not a big enough impediment to Arya and Gendry being together, while meta-textually, they have all these symbols that say they’re perfect for each other and for the smoking slag of Westeros.

So while we can never fully trust GRRM not to be an absolute bastard, I think we’re pretty much good.

[jontargaryn]

x

[maggieandbeth]

/ come back home 'cause i need you like flowers need a sun... /

[gizkasparadise]

Unpopular opinion: I think Dany was always meant to be a fallen hero (she's the only character with weapons of mass destruction and ASOIAF is heavily anti-war). Hated how the show handled it though.

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

im not entirely familiar with the books (i skim read them like 10 years ago and haven’t picked them up since), but it’s a totally logical arc to follow because 1) dragons/conqueror legacy/etc. and 2) westeros is a place that SUCKS to be the hero anyway. also i think that the books doesn’t have clear-cut heroes/villains like the show did so it doesn’t make sense that anyone’s going to get out of the series 100% approved

HATED how the show did it too, and will hate it if the books go the ~targaryen madness~ route as well. 

if you got 8 seasons, maybe don’t make your central character have a villain arc condensed into 2, maybe 3 episodes? Also we should have had time to Sit With the post-King’s Landing attack, because it just....ugh. it just. ugh. lazy writing throughout s8 tbh

[anxious-acushla]

when u get this u have to answer with 5 things u like about yourself, publicly. then, send this ask to 10 of your favorite followers (non-negotiable, positivity is cool)

I have great hair (that no one can see right now because it is very long and I refuse to blow dry it everyday so it just goes up in a messy bun...thanks quarantine)

I have super straight teeth

I’m ridiculously loyal to my friends

I’m a good listener

I’m an aunt and my nephews think I’m wonderful (bless them)

[geraltcirilla]

(Part 1) Despite all the negativity, can I also say how much i appreciate that there wasn't some scene with Arya "dressed as a lady" that led to Gendry seeing her in a new way? Basically the equivalent of the make-over trope we see so often in fiction. We even see it in Harry Potter (Hermione and the Yule Ball) and the Princess Diaries.

(Part 2) I know we got the Acorn Hall scene in the books, but I'm glad something like that didn't happen in the show. Gendry's completely love-struck expressions happen while Arya still has her slicked back hair and with her usual kind of masculine outfit on and while she's throwing knives and shooting arrows etc. She doesn’t change anything about herself. And Gendry calling her beautiful right after battle with her face still bruised and scarred? I love that for us.

It's rare the show actually improves upon the books. This is one of those moments. (The other moment would be the goodbye scene in 3x05. Wasn't in the books but remains one of my favorite Gendrya scenes.) It's quite validating Gendry is in love with exactly who Arya is: tough, sarcastic, masculine, scarred, and uncomforming. All the attributes she has that she was bullied for as a child made him fall in love with her. Arya could have gone her whole life without finding someone like that, especially in the world she exists in. She found something rare and irreplacable with Gendry: unconditional, selfless love. Fuck. I'm gonna cry.

[buckybarnesss]

misseffie replied to your post: One thing that has me so frustrated about the...

“you can see the hand of the writer. It is constructed for Arya to reject it.” EXACTLY. they made Gendry propose in such a way that Arya would reject. When Gendry is a character that knows Arya and it was pretty OOC for him to propose in that way. All of the dialogue in that scene was designed for Arya to reject him. I can’t really see Gendry proposing with those words exactly. Proposing in some way? Maybe. But not in the way he did.

When it first aired I was okay with it because I thought we were going to get follow up on it where Arya explains to him why or they resolve the issue in some way between them.

And then they didn’t.

So looking back it becomes clear it was a way to seperate Arya from the last remaining person that could keep her in Westeros. Jon was going North as “punishment”, Sansa and Bran had become a King and Queen respectively. While I still feel Arya wouldn’t want to leave her siblings because it’s Arya and she’s all about her family I think they considered her relationship with Gendry as a road block in having her leave.  Gendry would never ask Arya to be a lady. He teases her by calling her M’lady beause it riles her up. He doesn’t actually expect her to be one. I think he wouldn’t like her half as much as he does if she was more ladylike. (Book!Gendry isn’t fond of noblity in the first goddamn place but since they combined him with Edric we get the character that is s8 Gendry.)

[malyen0retsev]

question: do you think grrm is setting up jon and arya in the books? though i'm not sure why the show wouldn't go there at all if that was the case... and D&D LOVE incest lol. so i bet they would've loved to explore jon/rya or jon/sa if that was grrm's plan.

In short - no, I don’t think so. I certainly think that is what he intended to do initially; we’ve all read the outline where he originally planned for there to be a love triangle between Jon, Arya, and Tyrion, where Jon and Arya’s relationship ‘tortured’ them until Jon’s parentage was revealed (’incest tortured’ plot YAY)… but it’s pretty damn clear that outline has changed drastically since. I mean, in the initial outline, Daenerys’ role seemed fairly minor and it seemed extremely focused on the Starks, which we definitely know has changed. You can see hints of the Jon-Arya relationship more heavily in AGOT to be honest, but the dynamic does change as the books go on; their relationship is still hugely important, not just to each other but to the story as a whole (I firmly believe it is the most important and strongest relationship in ASOIAF), but they also always refer to each other as ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ when thinking of each other. The sibling bond is absolute.

GRRM is a gardener writer, not an architect, as he’s said several times now. He vaguely plans the brush strokes of where he’s going, but he also makes a lot up as he goes along, letting the characters take him by surprise and following where they take him. It’s why he’s quite a slow writer, and it’s also why the initial trilogy plan has broadened so drastically to seven books now (as it stands. He’s fairly firm it will end on seven books, but has also said if it needs more than seven, then it needs more than seven). 

Personally, I think the ‘incest’ plot being set up is 100% Jon and Daenerys, and will cause a certain level of angst, but not to tear Dany down like they did in the show (at this point I just have to laugh at what they did in the show). I also think it’s very very clear that Arya’s future romance plot has been set up to be Gendry, not Jon. I sort of think Gendry’s one of those characters who took GRRM somewhat by surprise - he needed him for Ned to find in AGOT, then ended up in a situation where Arya and Gendry were in the same place, and he followed that relationship and those characters to a place where it’s very evident they’re being set up as the next generation, successful, and healthy version of Robert and Lyanna. I also think he then went back to edit hints towards Gendry earlier in Arya’s storyline - I mean, Arya’s first chapter we’re told she has ‘hands like a blacksmith’. Coincidence? I THINK NOT. 

To me, GRRM may have started out with the plan of Jon and Arya as a thing, but then as he wrote he listened to the characters, and listened also to the characters who would become their significant others (Daenerys and Gendry), and instead went down that route - ensuring Jon and Dany’s journeys literally parallel one another, and ensuring the reader knows about Robert and Lyanna and how much Arya and Gendry are said to resemble them. It’s one of the things I really respect about GRRM as a writer to be honest; his story never feels stagnant or forced, because he is willing to set aside initial plans he had in order to weave a new storyline that the characters naturally gravitate towards. i wish more writers did that.

So no. To summarise. I don’t think we’re heading for a Jon-Arya romantic relationship, because I think it’s been made abundantly clear they have significant others within the context of the story, and because as the books progress their sibling bond is fiercely reminded to us. I think he sure set their relationship out to be romantic at first, but that’s not where he’s going with the story he’s actually writing now. And personally, I’m glad. Because Jon-Arya is the purest and best relationship in the books, and there is zero part of me that wants that ruined by a ‘tortured incest’ plot. (And also yes, if it was going to happen I’m sure D&D would have lapped that shit up - so the fact it didn’t happen in the show makes it fairly clear it won’t tbh)