I think we forget to highlight how strong this scene is for Adrien.
I don't know if this will be entirely the case, but...If the reasoning behind Plagg taking the Miraculous away is because this way he can be free to have a relationship with Marinette, here's Adrien trading his freedom (and not only his freedom. His best friend, his confidante, his company in his golden cage… he's giving all that away) with having a relationship with the girl he likes. Poor boy!
And I know that probably Tikki and Plagg have put it in a different way, probably they have lied to them, but it still HURTS to see him having to make this choice! No 14 year old should...
From “jubilation” it seems like we are either gonna get MORE packages of several episodes which turn out to be on the same day, or at least the following episodes will still keep up the habit of filling in context of former episodes.
Because in “Jubilation” the first time we see the real Adrien he already HAS his Alliance ring and isnt wearing it anymore:
But through trailers and leaks we already know that we are still about to see the moment where Gabriel gives Adrien the Alliance ring and also possibly the moment where Adrien will decide to take it off:
So I suppose there is a solid chance that in season 5 - on top of the regular episode pairs like in s4 as we know by now - we might be getting packages of 3 episodes that belong together as well
(whiiiiiiiiich would explain why there is an additional episode this season. You can't divide 26 by 3, but 27:3 = 9)
Reading your sentiadrien post, I just have to say that as a person who really hates this theory, I found this explanation to be comforting to my increasing anxiety over him being a sentimonster. You addressed a lot of the problems I have with this theory but I also think that the fear that some people have for it has a lot to do with the precarious and sensitive position it puts Adrien in. He now has an achilles heel if you will, an area of him that if successfully attacked could result in his demise. There’s also the fact that Adrien is a character a lot of people identify with, and him being a sentimonster in some people’s eyes makes him purposeless. Most individuals want to feel as though they contribute something to the world, that they mattered in some capacity, but if Adrien is a sentimonster he was only created to fulfill the purpose of being perfect in the eyes of his parents. In other words, he has no ulterior purpose, no worthy cause, no free choice. I really liked how you showed the dislike of this theory through the lens of fear, it made me realize that perhaps there’s a more internal reason for me not liking the senti-Adrien theory. This post is really beautiful and perfectly encapsulates what is so special about Adrien’s story!
Anon, first off THANK YOU for asking the question I most wanted to answer:
Does Adrien being a senti-being invalidate his existence, since this means he was created "for someone else"?
For starters, let's highlight what you said here: "Most individuals want to feel as though they contribute something to the world, that they mattered"
Before we talk about how this applies to Adrien, let's first discuss how this might apply to someone more like you or me...
A person is born. They're parents have expectations and beliefs about who they brought into the world ("created" if you will). They see a beautiful little girl, who they picture will one day get married to a lovely man and have a family of her own. They see her growing up to be an amazing housewife, so as they raise her they teach her all the values that they thing matter most to that goal.
They teach her to walk carefully, cross her legs when she sits, speak kindly and with manners. They buy her barbies and dollhouse and pink dresses and chastise her when she reaches for her brother's Legos and superman costume. They enroll her in ballet and gymnastics, even when she cries that she wants to play soccer with her brother and his friends and get muddy. Mom teaches her how to cook and clean and serve guests, so she can be the perfect housewife like she is.
This person grows up to be 13, a developmental age where children begin to develop independence and self identity. Where they take the rules they've learned and see how it applies to them, if it does. The age where they start to question their place in the world, and what freedom means to them.
This person realizes..."I don't feel like a girl." This person cuts their hair really short one night, just to see how it feels (magical). For Halloween they dress up as a boy as a "joke" (they feel amazing). This person realizes they've never liked a guy or girl, that sex and having a family isn't as important to them as being happy and having a fulfilling passion. This person starts going by he/him.
Of course his parents are against it, they even refuse. Throw him out of the house..."You're not who we wanted to bring into the world." And it hurts, he hurts so much. But he also has amazing friends and a supporting community. He leaves the house, but he feels more like a person than he's ever felt in his life. He gets therapy, a name change, surgery, etc and he feels like himself, a person.
Now, anon, because this person didn't turn out like his parents expected him to, does that make him any less valid? Does that negate any of his life experiences? Does this mean his future is not bright?
Going back to Adrien, he is literally a hero. He saves the day. But he's also intelligent, really funny. Cares for his friends. He likes fencing and playing piano with those he cares about. He loves sweets. He has a personality, he even rebels sometimes. He's kind and loving, he wears his heart on his sleeve and lives with every bit of it. He is Chat Noir, 1/2 of Paris' crime fighting duo.
Who cares what he was made for? My parents wanted me to get married and have kids and be a doctor. I haven't done any of that. Does that make me purposeless? Not at all.
I have a purpose, one I found and made for myself (and it was really freaking hard to get this far).
Sure Adrien might have been created to be a certain ay, but as we've seen in the show he has FOUND his own purpose. He chose his own destiny, and he rocks at it.
He does have free choice, he makes it everyday. And since we are still learning the rules of this universe, who can say he won't be able to get his freedom back himself and be truly free?
Saying he has no purpose, no free choice. No reason for existence means nothing because every episode PROVES that he has a purpose, he's doing something no one else can. He's so much more than we think he is. More than what his parents or friends or anyone expect him to be. He's more than what he thinks.
He's himself, he's Adrien, senti or not. And that's all he needs to have a purpose.
In all the wild shenanigans with Marinette’s family and Evil Tikki on a rampage haven’t seen a lot of discussion of the galette itself, and why Tikki responded so strongly to it.
This first thing we learn is that this is a collaboration between Tom and Roland.
This makes the galette is the mark of a new beginning and the restoration of Tom and Roland’s relationship in a new form and co-creators and equal partners.
They call it:
One of the tasks of the Hero, in the Archetypical story structure of the Hero’s Journey, is to venture into the realm of the New and bring back what is needed to revitalize the ancient traditions, restore the kingdom and create a new and better order.
The thing that sparks Tikki’s obsession is not just the smell and taste of galette but this particular galette which is redolent with inspiration and creativity as well as sugar and butter and chocolate.
That chocolate was her last obsession is fitting as the bitter beverage of Aztec god-kings and then European royalty became the silky bars we know today with the discovery in 1825 of how to extract then re-add the coco butter (the fat of the cacao bean) and cut the bitterness with alkali.
The ancient tradition was reimagined through an act of discovery and reordering from harsh liquid to sweet solid.
It’s not just sugar that sparks Tikki’s hunger but new creation.
The first three minutes of Lies itself establishes so much on it’s own.
They spent these few minutes depicting Adrien’s daily life.
Initially, they displayed his life from Marinette’s perspective, they specifically focused on how she sees it.
“Oh! He has such a wonderful life!”
Then, they immediately transition to Adrien’s perspective. They focus on his exhaustion from that same day, and portray his excitement to transform into Chat.
“I’m finally free! Plagg, Claws Out!”
Of course, he’s excited to meet Ladybug. Because as he said, he can have the most fun when he’s with her. He doesn’t have to wear this facade. However, Marinette is too busy to meet up, she doesn’t have free time on her plate anymore...so those moments are falling short without her there...because all Parisans want to do is take pictures with him, which is very reminiscent of his life outside the mask as well.
Coming to the Adrigami aspects, the reason why Adrigami works out is because they’re very similar. They have common lifestyles and interests, they understand each other. This is where Marinette falters. She doesn’t understand Adrien’s everyday life. Her crush on him naturally makes her place everything about him on a pedestal. Whilst her feelings for him are genuine, and she does want him to be happy, she also places him on too much of a pedestal that blinds her to considering the actual problems in his life, she’s blinded by the surface impressions.
Even if she’s his friend, she can never actually communicate with him in order to see him more than what the surface presents. However, she does make up for that when she’s Ladybug.
Ladybug accepts Chat Noir for who he is. And she isn’t blinded by any superficial impressions. She can communicate with him and since they don’t have to know about the others’ lives, they can see each other for only their rawest personalities. That’s a good and bad thing: it shows their genuine relationship but it also means they can’t touch on deeper problems in the other person’s life despite understanding each other to the fullest.
Adrienette avoids the deeper problems simply due to the lack of genuine communication whereas Ladynoir can’t delve on these deeper problems due to secret identities.
Whilst Kagami and Adrien have similar lifestyles, they can somewhat understand each other. But the thing is Kagami can’t understand him like Ladybug does. Ladynoir is driven by personality and is avoidant of each other’s background. Adrigami is somewhat the opposite. Their relationship is driven by each other’s background. Their similarities in situation, lifestyle and interest is what bounds them together. If you think about it...personality...do they know each other’s true personality? It seems like they have certain generalizations of each other’s personality but can’t delve deeper, pretty much like Adrienette, but unlike Adrienette, they can actually communicate, their forms of communication is mainly because of common interests once again.
The problem with Adrienette is the lack of communication. The problem with Ladynoir is the secret identities. The problem with Adrigami is the idea that they can’t seem to understand each other on a deeper level despite communication and sharing interests. That’s mainly why it’s more likely to falter.
The solution for Adrienette is improvement in communication.
The solution for Ladynoir is a reveal.
But for Adrigami, finding a solution here is not very rigid, because the idea of “making them understand each other on a deeper level” requires so much effort and energy that’s difficult to force. We don’t understand the exact problem here, they’re communicating, they can get to know each other, but why can’t they understand each other’s deeper personalities?
The problem with Adrigami was never being “too similar” on its own. It was the idea that they can’t try and understand each other’s deeper personalities in order to establish appropriate boundaries like Ladynoir. Mainly why Adrien’s indecisiveness vs Kagami’s boldness keep clashing. They can’t establish boundaries and they don’t understand.
That’s mainly where Adrigami differentiates from LS. That’s the weak point.
As Truth and Lies are parallel, pointing out the Ladynoir scene from Truth after the akuma attack, where there’s talk about how Chat has the most fun when he’s with LB and there’s a slight implication about how his real life is like.
In context with Lies, it makes sense. Ladybug is the only person where Chat Noir genuinely has fun with. His normal life is what his father wants for him, not what he wants, most of the activities he does is what Gabriel wants him to do in order for him to become his perceived image of the perfect son.
He can express these repressed qualities of his as Chat Noir. Pretty much, Ladybug confessed that she liked these repressed qualities in Truth and it shows that lovely connection they have, how they’re able to understand each other.
Lies will focus on Adrigami in all angles: benefits and disadvantages, and of course, parallel it with Adrienette and Ladynoir (we already see that little parallel in the clip with Marinette being blinded by the reality of Adrien’s life vs Kagami being able to understand vs Ladybug being unaware).
Now both of these episodes are considered impactful in the fandom.
Now that Ephermeral has been out for a good while and I rewatched it (several times). I have decided to really delve into which episode is objectively better.
In order to do this I have created different categories SPECIFICALLY for these episodes.
1. Set up: What causes the chain of events to unfold. (Was it natural? A stretch to lead to this situation?)
2. Lovesquare: How good are the lovesquare moments before things went to crap?
3. The Shift: What event lead to things going to crap?
4. The Collapse: How does everything go to crap?
5. The Fix: What is the thing that fixes everything?
6. The Akuma: How well does the akuma the episode is named after do in this episode? How impactful are they (the episode is named after them)
7. The takeaway: What was Ladybug and/or Chat noir's take away from all of this
In Chat Blanc: The start of this chain of events was Marinette wanting to give Adrien a gift on his Fifth Names day. But thanks to some shenanigans, Her signing the gift and leaving just as he arrives. Adrien figures out that Marinette and Ladybug are the same person AND that she is in love with him. Which is the catalyst.
In Ephemeral: The start of the chain of events was that Adrien was held up a press conference and couldnt help the team beat the akuma (which took 9 heroes total). Su Han calls out Ladybug and says that she should know chat noir's identity or else he will snag chat noir's miraculous and assign it to someone else. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, Ladybug decides to plan a fake reveal in order to get chat noir's identity using viperion.
Verdict: Chat blanc
Now on paper, Ephemeral's set up sounds WAY better. Su han pressuring Ladybug to find out Chat noir's identity. A plan to reveal but not reveal. But in reality, it actually falls apart when you realize Ladybug could have simply talked to chat noir about telling su han. The episode tries to give a weak explaination regarding why she doesnt have Viperion ask. But its a plot hole that really makes it impossible to ignore once you realize it. Also with Wishmaker, we know Viperion knows already. He could have totally just revealed the truth and saved Ladybug a heap of trouble.
Chat Blanc while a bit mild in comparison but at least has a bit more thought put into it. Marinette was driven to drop off the gift, and she was being stopped. So she figured a quick Ladybug drop off would allow her to get through. And to be fair she almost did it without Adrien even knowing. No trickery involved.
Both set ups do have flaws but Chat blanc's just seemed better
In Chat blanc, after finding out, Adrien rushes out to find Marinette and confess to her. His confession is very sweet and that kiss is just *Chef's kiss*. We also do get glimpses of their relationship. Seeing them dance, greet each other at school, go to premieres. Overall it is very cute stuff.
In Ephemeral: Ladybug finding out Adrien is Chat noir was a shock. It made her forget her plan and had her processing how well she knew Adrien. There is a good amount of time having her see the adrien in chat noir and the chat noir in adrien. And once she is able to see them both as truly one in the same, she reveals herself to him. Its a touching reveal and I think is one of the most emotional moments in the entire series. Then we get to see them being secretly dating for a bit.
Verdict: Ephemeral
I honestly thought Chat blanc would have this in the bag with that Lovesquare kiss, but honestly, Ephemeral's build up of the moments felt more natural and earned. In chat blanc we get more of a slide show of what happened, but in Ephemeral the flow of how things went and the build up to marinette revealing herself is just gorgeous.
If Chat blanc had built up its moments more, I think it could have been better
In Chat blanc everything went to crap when Gabriel decided Marinette would be the PERFECT akuma. So he forces her to break up with Adrien in what still is one of the most heart wrenching moments in the series. This whole break up resulted in Adrien transforming to save Marinette, which resulted in Gabriel finding out that his son is Chat noir, which resulted in the shift
In Ephemeral: Gabriel happened to overhear Adrien call someone 'My Lady' and immediately figures out Adrien is chat noir.
In Chat Blanc: Ladybug and Chat noir corner Hawkmoth in his lair in which he reveals Emilié's corpse. Revealing his identity as Hawkmoth and causing Chat noir to go into a mess of emotions. Hawkmoth Homerun hits his son into the eiffel tower and akumatizes him. Chat blanc now trying to fight but emotionally compromised, couldnt control his powers and ended up exploding the moon and destroying all of Paris (possibly all of the world)
In Ephemeral:
Gabriel lures Adrien into his lair and reveals Emilie's corpse to his son. Then reveals that he is shadowmoth and tries to akumatize his son. Adrien tries to fight it and in a scene that could potentially imply adrien is a sentimonster (or emotional abuse), adrien caves and hands over his ring. Allowing for Shadowmoth to transform into Shadow noir. Where he and his akumatized son ambush Marinette and get her miraculous. Allowing Gabriel to finally win and make his wish.
The Verdict: Objective draw (Personally Chat Blanc. No points for either)
Honestly both are pretty depressing. Gabriel winning seems like a worse outcome and what he did to adrien in ephemeral was cruel in a way by forcing him to help him fight his girlfriend. But Gabriel was arguably MORE vicious in Chat Blanc. Having the willingness to beat the s*** out of his own son and force him to comply. Chat blanc destroying the world means no one wins and adrien is alone forever. But since the universe we know technically gets destroyed either way, does it really matter?
I can completely understand picking one over the other.
I guess this one really determines what you find more tragic, Gabriel getting his wish or no one wins. And for me, seeing Chat blanc go crazy with no hope of fixing things seems just a bit more tragic. But objectively I view this as either way/
In Chat blanc, After defeating Chat blanc, ladybug figures out in order to fix everything she needs to go back and stop herself from signing the gift. So Bunnyx sets up for Ladybug to go back and fix her apparent mistake. Things are stable and everything is back to normal. Ladybug learns her lesson and Bunnyx goes back to her timeline
In Ephemeral, Ladybug manages to message Luka to go to her miracle box, have him find sass, and have sass go back in time to stop this from happening. Ladybug and Chat noir then have to fix a satellite in order to stop all of the time displacement caused by sass going back. Ladybug then tells off su han saying "Im the boss I do what I want" and thats the end of it.
Verdict: Ephemeral
Oh dont get me wrong, there are SO MANY PLOT HOLES in this fix. But at the very least, it was much more entertaining to watch happen. With Joan of Arc showing up, and ladybug and Chat noir using their space powers with ACTUAL transformation sequence. The whole way they fixed it was an asspull. But it was at the very least much more entertaining than how Ladybug fixed things in Chat blanc.
Now Chat blancs was more realistic, but it was boring in comparison. And while I personally have a lot of problems with Ephemeral's fix, it is at least somewhat interesting and provides some lore about how the wish works.
In chat blanc, After Gabriel's horrific reveal, Chat noir gets akumatized and turned into a being of infinite destructive power. He destroys the world and almost destroys the universe in a bout of insanity
In Ephemeral, After Gabriel's horrific reveal, Adrien gets akumatized and turned into an akuma that speeds up the time of someone they touch. His akuma form is in the episode for 1 full minute
Verdict: CHAT BLANC HANDS DOWN
There is no arguement. Chat blanc has a better design, power set, more mystery and build up, and is just an infinitely more fascinating akuma. The only thing Ephemeral has going for it is that it helped Shadow moth win, but really he won the moment he got adrien's ring. Now he does get a few sad boy moments but its NOTHING in comparison to Chat blanc. Sorry adrien, your akuma form SUCKS.
In Chat blanc, Ladybug learns the importance of her identity and this event does still haunt her nightmares, showing that it impacted her on a psychological level. But the later isnt relevant. What is important is how it impacted her in that episode. And Ladybug learned she needs to be more cautious and knows she has an ally in the future.
In ephemeral, Ladybug doesnt remember anything and just figures that her trying to find out chat noir's identity in anyway will result in disaster, thus she yells at su han saying "She got this" and he folds.
Verdict: Chat blanc
Ephemeral really didnt have our heroes take away anything. There was no development in Ladybug and Chat noir's dynamic. Ladybug only left thinking she knows what she is doing and that Su han was wrong.
Chat blanc has Ladybug realize why their identities need to be protected and why having someone know her identity without her knowledge can be EXTREMELY dangerous, regardless of how trust worthy that person is.
You CANNOT tell me him heing sidelined is intentional after THIS face.
Clearly, the, "I need you," phrase that has been keeping him going is... not quite true anymore.
Because Rena Rouge is there (again, not complaining. Please don't take this the wrong way), and Ladybug also needs her. Except she knows all the secrets.
And he's the one being left behind.
It's like having to stay behind two of your friends because all three of you don't fit in the hallway.
Also note that he's that one friend no one really knows about, but they become friends because they're friends with his friend (quoted from unknown, I forgot). This was proven in Felix where the class almost immediately believed Felix's video because, "we've only known him since we came back from summer break,"
Chloe is also pushing him away too. Notice that the Ladynoir entrance cinema scene in Gang of Secrets kind of parallels with the Chloe and Adrien entrance cinema scene in Queen Banana?
The most important thing he can contribute is support. But if people won't let him do that, he's.. just nothing. Just a plastic bag flying mid-air.
And with Nathalie being the only one really taking care of him before (quoted from Adrien's Double Life) now being sick, I wanna cry.
He's that lonely now.
Anyhow, if HE'S the secret villain this entire time, I will riot and cause chaos.
I know this is a commonly made prediction for all the seasons, but I have 1000% certainty it will actually happen this time, and here’s why.
Before we get to the in season evidence, let’s look at the pre season evidence.
A while back, like, season 2 awhile back, Thomas Astruc made this post on Twitter in answering a fan question
Now, this of course could just be due to them amping it up this season, but still something to keep in mind since it’s been in the back of my head while I’ve been gathering in season evidence. This is the post that has been making me speculate season 4 reveal for the longest, and now with the evidence we have now that the season is aired, it grows all the more suspicious.
And speaking of said evidence, let’s get on with it!
1. The emphasis on secrets this season
The first three episodes, Truth, Lies, and Gang of Secrets, all focus on the theme of lying and keeping secrets from the one you love.
In truth, marinette needs to lie to keep her identity a secret from Luka. Same for Adrien with Kagami in Lies.
In gang of secrets, Marinette needs to keep her identity a secret from her friends, and this eventually boils over into Alya finding out.
And in a new summary for the upcoming episode Optygami, it seems as though Hawkmoth is focused on secrets as well this season
Which, of course, brings me to my next point...
2. Gabriel is weirdly obsessed with their identities this season, more than usual
Now this makes sense! Ladybug is the guardian, of course he wants to know her secret identity! But still, the emphasis the narrative is putting on their identities through Gabriel is definitely sus.
(There are more examples but I don’t want to reach the image limit too early 💀)
Hawkmoth ALWAYS asks for the magic Jewels from the people he akumatizes, no matter what the goal is, but in Truth, he doesn’t even mention the miraculous! He just wants to know their identities!
When hawkmoth is focused on something other than the miraculouses, it usually means that thing is going to come into fruition soon, like when he wanted to hunt for master fu in the season 3 finale. This is definitely setting the narrative up for a reveal.
4. The show is showing us how a reveal could be beneficial
Yes I’m talking about the Alya reveal! With Alya there for Marinette, the show showed us how a reveal could provide Adrien and Marinette some support in each other’s lives, and how several people working together on the basis of Mari’s guardianship is absolutely needed.
But wait! What about the past problems with an identity reveal! Well, that goes into my next point
5. The magic charms
The main problem with Adrien and Mari reveling their identities is that, if one of them gets akumatized, the other will reveal their identity! But the magic charms provide a solution to this: it prevents them from being akumatized!
This doesn’t solve ALL the problems with an identity reveal, of course, but it does solve one of the biggest. And who knows, maybe this season will address the other problems as well.
So the points I made above are all well and good and everything, but my MAIN point with this entire post is, my favorite topic....
6. Reverse Lovesquare
Come on, we ALL know that the show is setting up some reverse lovesquare this season! But hang on, it’s not in the way we expected!
While Adrien has started to fall for Mari, and while we all know Mari will start to fall for chat, they aren’t letting their past crushes go. In the reverse umbrella scene, yes there was symbolism for Adrien falling for Mari, but Mari also fell for Adrien again! And Adrien still loves Ladybug! This makes me believe that this season, marinette will be struggling to choose between Adrien and chat noir and Adrien will be struggling to choose between Marinette and Ladybug. And how would this dilemma be resolved, you may ask?
The reveal.
CONCLUSION
YES THIS IS A STRETCH AND IM AWARE! But the evidence is all there, it DEFINETLY seems like the show is setting us up for a reveal at the end of this season.
And yes, while this post was focused on the lovesquare reveal, I want you guys to leave with another reveal in mind this season might also be setting up:
The reveal that Gabriel Agreste is hawkmoth.
Could everything I said have been a red herring and this is the true reveal this season? Could the kids find out Gabriel’s identity and he had to go into hiding? But I guess that’s a post for another day.
Anyway, this season is wild and it’s only the first half. I’m not ready 🤡
