I'm pretty sure Eris knows she's gay. In the CoN scene, he says "I wouldn't have fucked you anyway' and she turns PALE. I perceived that as, "Holy shit, you know I'm gay and I think you're trying to get the others to see." because he might have sensed the others don't know, by the way Az was looking at her.
Yeah. That’s the exact scene/moment that made me think that. And it calls into question what else Mor has lied about. Because if he is keeping that secret for her, then 1) how does he know? 2) Mor has helped to paint him to be the picture of an asshole. She has the power of truth, she likely knows he is being sincere. So perpetuating how big of a dick he is for her own advantage but also it certainly helps him. He wants people to think he’s a dick. And of course her trauma plays into it. Idk that she has a solid reason for hating Eris. Because in ACOWAR it was presented like all he did was call off the marriage. Then she got hurt and dumped in the autumn court, and he said he couldn’t come get her for secret reasons.
So that tells me that maybe they were acquainted on some level. Idk that I’d say they were friends, but they knew more about one another before that all went down. Or at least it seems that way. So I think Mor’s trauma from being left there could be misplaced on Eris. Not that he is blameless, but did she really want him and his court to come find her????
But if they were friends….and he didn’t come to help her….then that’s a HUGE betrayal, right? That, to me, justifies her vilifying him and hating him. And it justifies her reactions to being in the same room as him because she would associate what she felt that day with him, her friend/acquaintance, not coming to help her.
It was also a day that Azriel saw her at her lowest and she knew he liked her, so seeing Eris could also bring up those old feelings of how awkward it was with Az.
I need more of that story honestly. There is too much missing and with Eris’s role in ACOWAR….it further complicates the story we’ve all been told.
I love Mor but why is she very territorial to Cas in the book? she already said that she doesn't have any romantic feelings for him right? why does she need to be in the middle of Nessian? what will this contribute her?
As soon as she realized that Nesta was opening herself up to Cassian, she felt threatened. And I can 100% get behind that. Because it was realistic. Mor had a LOT at stake in this book and she needs both Az and Cassian to participate in the not-a-love-triangle-love-triangle. So we see Mor go from nice to Nesta, to “shouldn’t you be filling that water bucket?” Like Nesta is so beneath her. And it’s because she can’t let Cassian go. No one likes change. And Mor at that point in the story was realizing that Nesta and Cassian are likely mates and that’s a threat to how she’s kept herself hidden/safe. And Cassian is one of her best friends. We all have moments where we have friends who start dating/seeing someone and we get territorial because we don’t want the dynamic to change. And I think to some degree Mor wanted to protect Cassian from getting his feelings hurt, but she didn’t act that way when Nesta was mean. So to me that change in her behavior was in response to Nesta as a threat to her and Cassian and AZ’s dynamic. And they’re also in a war, and Mor found out Eris was working with Rhys behind her back, and having the make a deal with her father—all that only made her more angry. And then at the war camp it was pretty clear to me that Mor was courting Vivianne’s sister. And that became one more thing to hide.
And I think we can also argue that Mor was to some degree jealous of nessian’s likely mating bond. The war brought up old feelings about the lover she lost. And the descendent she saw who ended up dead. I can tell you RIGHT. NOW. I would have a VERY HARD TIME not being jealous and feeling like my family/support system we’re leaving me. Mor puts on a good “tough girl/I don’t give a damn about my reputation” act. But after this book, it’s very clear that that’s a front to mask what she’s hiding and her insecurities. It was obvious that her “chipper” attitude in ACOMAF was a show, we just weren’t sure to what extent it was a show until this book.
Regardless of Mor being mean to Nesta, do you think in some way she respects her? thoughts?
Of course. Respect is probably, at least for me, not the right word/phrasing. I think I feel better articulating it as: Mor doesn’t hate Nesta, Mor was threatened by Nesta.
Mor in this book was SO FANTASTIC! We finally got to see who she really is and I LOVED that! In ACOMAF she was always said to be too chipper and always came off as if she were putting on a front. And in this book, we finally got to see who she is without that front. We got to see Mor.
And Mor was so relatable in this book.
A lot of things happened to her that slowly stripped away at the front she wore in ACOMAF. And it’s only after this moment of her watching (with her magic I think) Azriel see Elain (post Eris in the Court of Nightmares when he figures out that Elain is a seer), and after Nesta openly ask about Cassian’s wellbeing—that Mor really starts to come apart. And it’s in that moment when her attitude toward Nesta changes. That’s when we first see her threatened by Nesta and what she, Nesta, means to Mor’s way of life.
Or to put it a different way. Mor realizes then that things are going to change and that the system that had always kept her secret safe, is starting to crumble. And that’s a scary moment.
It’s almost a “loss of innocence” moment, or the beginning of one. And I think we can argue that Mor, on some level, knows that she can safely pick a fight with Nesta and not stand to do any lasting emotional damage to Nesta. Being mean to others to distract from, and hide, deeper emotions is a game Nesta has perfected. I mean she practically invented it. So I think we could argue that while Nesta was always going to be Mor’s target because of the threat she poses to Mor’s relationship with Cassian, Mor also knows that Nesta is the one person she can dish it out to who won’t break.
Mor was so complicated in this book and I just loved it!
What are your thoughts about Mor's sexuality? I always liked the idea of Moriel, but the way she sorta brushed Azriel off continuously got me thinking maybe she doesn't swing that way??? Or maybe theres someone else?? And then I read ACOWAR and it was confirmation that she was Bi with preference for females, and I cried really hard at that scene where she tells all to Feyre, not just because this woman had been through so much, but also cuz she felt like she had to hide it.
Yeah. Heteronormativity played a big part in how people read Mor’s actions in ACOMAF. I wrote a few posts on why I thought Mor might be gay back in February, and that was one of the arguments I made, and that people who thought she was gay made.
I loved Mor is this book so much. We finally got to see the woman hiding behind the chipper attitude. We also got to see her as her way of life, the means by which she’s kept herself hidden and safe, was coming apart. It just really brought her to the forefront so much more.
And my thoughts on Mor’s sexuality are conflicted. I totally see how based on exactly what she said, that she is bi homoromantic. BUT. I think when I look at her behavior in that scene, and apply what I know about what it’s like to confess the truth about a lie we’ve told….that it’s human nature to confess the lie, then go back on it to protect ourselves a bit, then confess more, and then go back on it. It’s rarely ever a clear cut and dry confession. So part of me wonders if Maas intended that to come into play in this scene. And Maas is known for paying attention those kinds of details, so I’m on the fence.
I would like to see how Mor articulates that part of her. I’d like to see how she labels herself.
I had a really interesting conversation in this post with @shawnhenryspencer and @torattlethestars about it. It would be great for someone to ask Maas at a book signing how Mor identifies herself. I think only then will I be comfortable saying one way or another.
Idk if I completely misread that scene, and I know Mor was definitely acting threatened by Nesta at a few points, but I took her snapping about the water bucket as her lashing out in part about what had happened with Feyre and her still being pissed and concerned (if I'm remembering the right scene)? Like at that point she was hurt, angry, scared, and tired and was already wary of Nesta and just directed her anger towards her instead?
Yeah. There was a LOT going on with Mor in this book and in that scene. And she took it out on Nesta. And then when Feyre called her on it, she took it out on Feyre.
Ugh. Mor was so great and complicated in this book. I loved every minute of it. We finally got to see her being the chipper attitude/front she put on in ACOMAF and it was great. I love her so much more now!
hey! i know you like az and elain, (separately and as a couple) but what are your thoughts on Mor?
I love Mor. I think she is interesting as fuck and incredibly complicated. And I LIVE for complicated. (In case you haven’t noticed, I’m all about Dark!Elain, Nesta, and Manon Blackbeak!). Complex female characters are my jam (fingers crossed for Dark!Elain a foundation was certainly laid).
I don’t know that I think Mor loves Azriel romantically. She certainly loves him as a friend. But I think if she does love him the way he loves her, then she is doing a great job of hiding it/running from it. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think romantic love isn’t there! There are things she does that we can certainly read as more than just friendship love, but for me to draw that conclusion, I need more. I’m not gonna stake my reputation on a handful of moments that could also be friendship (esp. not with the random ass Elriel potential foreshadowing, the way Maas like to use symbolism btw characters, and the facts that we have about who was paired with who when Maas originally wrote the books).
There were TWO moments that I that could absolutely argue to there being more than friendship love for Mor when it comes to Azriel, but those moments are really vague and for me, I don’t have enough motivational info on Mor to safely say what she’d thinking in those tow scenes. And I think Mor is vague on purpose. I think that’s part of her whole thing.
I also think she is putting on a bit of a show, and I think it’s mostly for her own benefit. I think she’s got demons. And I think there is enough evidence to suggest that she was sexually assaulted and not just beaten to a bloody pulp by her family. I don’t think her father necessarily touched her inappropriately, but when we look at cultures similar to the Night Court that exist in the real world, there seems to be a huge disparity between what constitutes SA and violating someone else. And after that attor torture scene where Rhys didn’t hesitate to tell Azriel to break the attor’s legs and shred it’s wings—that to me calls into question just what was so horrible about the way Mor was treated that he couldn’t articulate it to Feyre. Because he is 500 years old, he has been to war and ordered the torture and has tortured many many many people. But I think we CAN ALL AGREE that there is a line there that Rhys would NEVER cross. And the fact that he couldn’t seem to be able to say it to Feyre (coupled with quite a few other hints Maas gave us), I think Mor was sexually assaulted.
I don’t know that she was raped, but I think her father could have easily been like “you debased yourself once what’s a little bit more?” And idk to what extent that would go. I could be as disgusting as tying her down in a position and letting everyone walk by and see the parts of her they feel she “debased” or as brutal as letting other people touch those parts of her, and a horrible and disgusting as rape. A culture that prizes virginity as a commodity would not see anything wrong with crossing those lines. But I will say that I DO NOT think Sarah will ever make it more clear. I think she’s smart enough to lay the hints and let the behaviors of her character fill in those blanks to let the reader decide. I don’t think Maas would use that as a plot device unless she had to time to fully explore it and do it justice.
I also can’t discount the trauma that Azriel and her would share had she been sexually assaulted and him being the one to find her like that. That would be traumatic for Mor and traumatic for Azriel. Especially if they both liked one another before all that happened. It would certainly explain why she keeps him at arm’s length, and why 500 years later, Azriel can’t hide the fact that he is into her. (also thought, if someone stared at me as much as Az stares at Mor, I’d wouldn’t want to be around his creep ass either. LOL. I don’t think that’s what Maas intended, how else can you show his obsession with her that Feyre can witness, but still. The staring is creepy to me sometimes.) That would be hard. I can’t imagine being found naked and beat up and nearly dead by someone I had a crush on, and then ever being able to look at him the same way again. I would always feel like the victim in his eyes, and I would FEAR him ever looking at me the way Azriel probably did when he found her. The ingredients for that kind of healing are time, trust, communication, and a damn good therapist. And IF Mor did take her clothes off and Azriel just stood there staring at her, I would be done with him. I would feel like he could only see the broken abused body, and not the woman beneath. I’d feel so embarrassed and HURT that he couldn’t let that image of me go. And that’s 100% NOT his fault, right? That experience would be traumatic for him. They need to have a conversation, cuz right now Mor seems to keep him at a distance and I need to know exactly why!
Also it’s not clear how they got Mor out of the Night Court. That almost reads as if it were a separate scheme than them saving her after she was beaten up. It’s really unclear. I’ve posted about it before, but I would love if Rhys’s mom had been in on it. If she had somehow got them all out of the house knowing Mor’s plan was to lose her virginity. That would fall in line with the Illyrians trying to take the mom’s wings. It would be something they could bond over and understand, and I think something Rhys’s mom (from what little we do know about her) would help Mor do.
But yeah. Mor is a complicated individual. And I honestly want her to be happy. And I REALLY want more info on her motivations. Cuz she does a lot of contradictory things sometimes. And also, last thought, I wouldn’t mind if she were gay either. That’s another theory that falls perfectly in line with her behavior at this point. Do I think it will be canon, fuck no. Can a girl dream, fuck yes!
One thing about Mor is clear/had been foreshadowed. Mor will NOT be “dancing” between Cassian and Azriel anymore. Maas told us that twice. And while for a bit I thought it meant that Mor would die, I’m going to deny that and say Mass meant that with Cassian “Declaring for Nesta” that he won’t be there any more to buffer those two. A Mor and Azriel conversation is looming on the horizon! And I can’t fucking wait!
I would be down for Moriel and for Ammor and for anyone with whom Mor would be eternally happy.
Ok, well, all you do is talk about MANORIAN, MANORIAN, and more MANORIAN. I'm sorry, but Manorian is just annoying. It's stupid. Witchling, princeling? Seriously? I'd say THEY formed a trauma bond, not Moriel.
Hi! So you 100% do not have to like them.
I would challenge you though, not to go looking for things you don’t want to see. That seems like it would be very self-defeating. If you don’t like Manorian, I’m not the blogger for you (although you might be here for Abraxos or Elriel and in that case–I’m your girl!). But there are plenty of legit ToG and ACOTAR blogs out there that are big into other characters/ships. I’d be happy to give you some recs if you need some follow suggestions.
And the only other thing I will say is that to form the kind of trauma bond I think you’re talking about (which would be the kind that we could argue Mor and Azriel may have formed) is that it has to be a shared experience. So we’d need Manon and Dorian to have an existing friendship or relationship that is then tested in the event of an extreme, life-altering situation. If that makes sense?
So if you’ve ever been in a car accident, or been mugged, or thought you were about to die—and someone saved you, or was with you when something that traumatic happened, that’s where that bond would come from.
If we wanted to argue for Mor and Azriel, that moment would be along the lines of Mor knowing that she was slowly dying, alone in the middle of a forest and Azriel shows up as she loses hope. And he saves her. And he feels like the hero because his background (bastard-born, abused and lonely, always in darkness) and she feels so connected/indebted to him for saving her. We see it a lot of times when people are pulled from a burning building or car accidents. It’s a very strong, life-humbling moment where you’re whole existence came down to the actions of another person. And it can have huge, lasting effects on people.
In ACOMAF, Azriel 100% shows love (or some kind of emotion beyond friendship) to Mor. I didn’t see anything from Mor that I thought was indicative of anything beyond friendship (or beyond how Cassian acts toward Mor). But that doesn’t mean it’s not there. I totally made an argument about why Mor and Azriel could be having an affair behind everyone’s backs (and why Mor could, maybe be pregnant). And if Mor does love Azriel, a secret affair makes more sense. Because it would explain why she blatantly ignored his staring–because she didn’t seem to feel uncomfortable by it.
And I’m 100% the kind of girl who thinks men openly staring/gawking at women is NOT okay. Whether it’s a cultural machismo thing, or creepy/non-creepy infatuation–I’m not okay with it.
But the story was told from Feyre’s perspective so Maas had to show Azriel’s feelings somehow (maybe not the healthiest way to show it–but maybe that was the whole point). And it would explain part of her “chipper” attitude. She’s acting as if she’s hiding or suppressing something similarly to how Aelin does it. It could be a simple lack of self-confidence, or it could be something more, something bigger. Like a secret affair, or it’s a wall to keep out/away. We don’t know. But soon we will!
