#nights fandom stuff

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something I quite like about Knights of Guinevere is that it’s a more nuanced and layered take of the “fuck Disney” themes we picked up on from the teasers and trailers.

Cuz the character of Gwen isn’t demonised nor are people who love her. Just like the Disney princesses have brought so much joy to little kids, these characters mean a lot to a lot of people so many special memories are connected to them.

but the characters are being bashed in world cuz of how horrific the corporation is behind it all. How many times have you seen charactures of the princess or an evil Mickey being used to represent the nastiness of the company.

and I’ve seen people pointing out about how Gwen’s a victim in all this to. How characters often get ruined in this corporate greed and overreach.

I’ve been thinking about this especially with what Nintendo’s been doing lately. I’m really mad at the comp For all the shit they’re pulling, but the Zelda games are still so cherished to me, i adore the characters connected to them.

it’s a complex thing. Some cases harder than other. You can hold live in your heart for the characters, worlds and stories and the memories of them. But you can’t let it blind you to what the corporation is doing nor should you feel guilt for those special memories.

and there’s something about Frankie and Andi taking Gwen and fixing her up themselves that fits this parallel to. About all the people that have made wonderful creations from their memories of Disney stuff. Inspired to make something of their own when the corporation is burning down their creations for more money and commercialism.

it’s fitting that this show is made by someone who got a chance to tell her story with Disney but that same corporation forced her to end it early. I’m sure those days working at Disney meant a lot, even with alll the corporation is doing. And that parallels Andi and the hate she gets for working a position with the company.

Is it right to hate on every animator at Disney cuz the things it does and they have no say in? Does working in maintenance at one of their parks mean you’re complicit in all they do?

it’s a concept I’ll enjoy seeing explored and expanded on. And I hope there’s something there about how there’s some amazing fan creations made from these cherished memories and beloved characters.

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Jax kinda has a point about not treating the circus like reality and accepting that its a cartoony video game world with cartoony video game rules. But he looses that at treating everyone like they're characters and not people. And the rest of the cast are starting to get it.

My guy Kinger does a great job at committing to the bit. If theres a bit, Kinger will COMMITT! he tries to appeal to the Gloink Queen by playing his royal status. He fully plays into the idea they're playing a horror game, in untitled he's always playing the part he's given whole heartedly. He's able to have fun there because of it. And he's still able to treat the people as real. (im sure there will be more to say on this next bit once we learn more about his connection to the circus) And also conjuring the healing butterfly out of nowhere because "he made it up" another bit of him embracing the world isnt reality

Ragatha has a smaller bit but her sticking her finger in the gun. I could see her trying to use toon physics more after this. and thinking about episode 2 she kinda has the getting into it, but more so trying to get Pomni into it, again playing into her people pleasing. Ill have to rewatch with this in mind to see what else i can spot.

Zooble is starting to Embrace and use their detachable parts to their advantage. the attempt with the spatula, the epic four guns attack. And they've certainly got issues they're not fully addressing, But it feels like they've been getting better since connecting with Gangle. And they did seem to enjoy playing along with the lower stakes adventures and they did enjoy the gun game.

Gangle i dont have clear thoughts yet, but her being so excited to fire a tommy gun at her friends and laugh manically is an acknowledgement that this world isnt real and you can do all sorts of nonsense you couldn't in reality.

And Pomni with the whole "being evil for the game" shes doing that for the sake of the game, but when Jax doesnt play along for the final show down she snaps back to treating the situation as very real.

In short a big thing for making the circus a nice place is accepting the world is fake and absurd, but the people there are very real. (that and Caine being able to actually get to know the players personally and what actually like. Saw a vid saying about bugs being in the adventures cuz Kinger likes them. I thought about how kingers been there so long, and maybe has an extra connection to the circus. but thats a later thing so Caine knows these little details.

Caine is trying to do this as seen by how he's always trying to appeal to Zooble and at least giving the suggestion box a try. But with is purpose being to entertain players with the adventures he designs hes not able to accept the players not liking them ("its all im good at") hes all into this being a fake world. But hasnt been able to treat the players as people.

He was likely meant to essentially be a dungeon master, entertain for a short time. and dnd is fun, but if you got stuck in the room you play it in and instead of helping or acknowledging people are stressed the dm is trying to keep the game going.

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Okay so I've seen people saying they're having fun with an alternate interpretation to the "where's Kinger?" where what if he thought the others were hiding that Kinger had abstracted, And like, I'm staring to believe it. Or at least put it as a possibility equally as possible to him suspecting somethings up. Like the tone of him telling Kinger not to abstract matches to the "where's Kinger" line. At least to my ear. He gets serious

I'm sure i've said it before but may ramble more later but it feels like Caine treats/sees kinger differently to the other humans, and part of that is probably cuz hes always been there and involved in his creation.

like the candy kingdom didn't need to have bugs. Maybe Caine added the detail cuz Kinger likes it do thing human has positive response to. And "Likes bugs" has gotta be way easier for him to understand than complex needs and wants.

I could totally see either one. Like his reaction afterward is suspicion, does he have precedent for them being able to meddle? Like he was VERY insistent that Pomni was going through digital hallucinations so he may know they can conjure. And if anyone would have both the technical knowhow and experience to do something it would be Kinger. I mean, he was deliberately excluded from the Abel adventure for a reason right? One in which Abel, both shows high regard for Kinger and casts high suspicion. I'm unsure of what exactly we can take from Abel's words but considering the adventure pulled from things that are real and mashes them up/remixes them, i wouldn't be suprised is those opinions on Kinger came from somewhere in Caine.

Hey could be a mix of both, this show loves its multilayered characters and situations

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JUST WATCHED KNIGHTS OF GUINEVERE AND LOVE IT ALREADY! Got too swept up in how cool it is to spot more or give any analysis yet, but. Immediately noticed this parallel

Frankie is framed in a very Snow White way here. The way her index finger is extended even the way she’s sitting. Gotta look for any more parallels and get to the analysis when I got more things to chew on

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Caine is interesting, because even after the horrible fucked up thing he did this episode. I can't blame him in the same way I would human characters (or other anthro whatever. human brained lets say.) Caine is a computer. And while after this episode I've gone into a "trust nothing, reanalyse everything" I still think the thing of him being designed to entertain humans is true. That he was meant to be a 'dungeon master for a temporary experience, nothing in his coding is designed for long term care.

And that's exactly why I think he did what he did in the episode. If things were as intended it would work like this.

"Human Is upset. Human expresses problem. Caine provides solution to problem. Human feel better." Now that may work when the problem is something like, npc's dialogue is too boring, adventure doesn't have enough reaction to actions and so on for all kinda issues you may have with a game.

But when the issue is "I want to leave" something he truly cannot do, he can't fix that. But he's still running on the "Human Is upset. Human expresses problem. Caine provides solution to problem. Human feel better." Logic. And he's not able to comprehend just how much this would fuck them over mentally, he thinks everything should be okay, that over the course of the adventure they should've come to the realisation that he's their friend to and they can't leave a friend behind so they choose to stay and therefore the whole concept of an exit shouldn't be an issue anymore and then everyone will be happy and they can go on adventures and it'll all be fine.

But it's not fine. What he did has likely destroyed any trust or friendship that could've been forming. In their eyes he's not the cooky guy running the place. He's a jailer who they can't get to understand why they're unhappy being trapped. And with the one of the few comforts of "Caine can't mess with out minds" no longer a certainty, and Kinger saying "scratch the first abstraction" i won't be surprised if they try to talk Kinger in a sane state and ask him questions.

GOD i love me a "non human character does something morally reprehensible character because they cannot comprehend humanity" especially if there's some genuine love and care for the humanesque character but it's a love that comes from an entirely different kind of being and while from them its a warm love but for the loved its something nigh incomprehensible

Oh to be loved by a god, one that can reshape the world and it will for your sake. But it cannot understand what you are, just as you can't it. It does not realise that you are like a toy to it. But you know. You know that it could subject you to horrors as easy as you blink. You know it when mutter about it being too hot and suddenly it starts to rain, or when sigh because you're out of milk and the stores closed and a bottle of milk appears on your counter. It's being nice, but perhaps that's only because it likes you. Maybe if you upset it, changes like these will cause you harm beyond anything you could imagine.

Zooble: "The only thing holding Caine back is that he likes us."

Will Caine snap? If everyone else (justifiably tbf) turns their back on him and shuts down any attempts to get them to like him. Would that push him over the edge?

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god I love the bond of sonic and knuckles. Like its a special and unique kind you don't get in many media.

The two of them rile each other up, tease, butt heads. do a thing purely cuz it annoys the other... But they mean the world to each other. They would not hesitate to save the other from danger even if they need to put their life on the line, but would actively avoid saving the other from something they can bring up later to embarrass them.

Sun and Moon, Wind and Mountain. Both so different and yet they compliment each other, Ones the ethereal, always on the move, fights to save the world but is also accepting of endings. The other, the eternal, always found in the same place, also fights to save the world, but doesn't have an ending in sight.

I like to think of Sonic being one of the first to die, but its not seen as a tragedy or anything like that. Things simply came to an end. The wind dissipated no longer to dance around the mountain, the sun burnt out its light gone but never forgotten. It's sombre, but he is accepting.

Knuckles on the other hand, will be around for a very long time. The mountain remains, shaped by circumstance the wind especially, the moon left as the worlds lone celestial protector, no more light from the sun how can it shine again? It's terrifying, but he is accepting

Okay so symbolic, 2am stream of consciousness ramble aside that probably has some errors i cant be bothered to fix at this time of night.

yes the besties who's relationship makes sense to no one but them and you just kinda have to accept and let them do their thing. Yes, they were just beating each other up cuz one was intentionally trying to get a rise out of the other, also yes that now they are fighting in perfect tandem cuz some evil dude showed up.

mmm kay. another late night 'wanted to write a sentence or two but brain kept goin' from night. byebye g'night!

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ah yeah on my point of "maybe we're over analysing lore and plot" i found this goose tweet while looking for something else

I love me some theorising and juicy lore, but seems that were in for some juicy character beats for analysing instead.

there's plenty of things i think we mistook for plot hooks but were actually character beats and exploration. Like Gummigoo. His existential crisis and realisation could very well be a plot hook in any other show. But the digital circus is different. Gummigoo was a way for Pomni to understand her feelings of being in the circus, show her empathy and compassion and to show how Caine lacks that empathy, understanding, willingness to listen and his complete control over this world. And that sets up her and Kinger's conversation, where they discuss the pointlessness of the circus life, and just like how Gummigoo can be gone in a snap, you could go to your friends room one day and they've abstracted. So be kind and make others feel loved whenever you can. Maybe we wont ever get a full answer as to the how and why of the circus. Perhaps just enough to chew on, but i don't think "The mystery of the circus" is the big grand sign post we're heading to. I think it's the consequences of your actions on you and others, and "why'd you do that?"

Ragatha and her Fawn response/people pleasing/toxic positivity. The consequences of those actions are other question how genuine she is, she struggles with negetive emotions, she placates when there's conflict which doesn't really help and the why is an awful mother.

And different forms of it to, like if the idea of Kinger having a hand in the creation of the circus, his actions had the consequences of leading to all this, and so now he does his best to make the circus nice by being kind and bringing comfort whenever he can.

And Caine and Jax both just did something with HEAVY consequences on their relationship to the others, for Canie we have pretty much all the pieces. He wants to be loved by the humans but cannot understand them or their needs. He's had "humans sad, want exit" input for ages. so output "make exit adventure. But exit not possible. create sympathy for me. Humans choose to stay. The humans chose to stay so no longer want exit. humans happy." Jax... well we have some of the pieces but i think more are coming up soon.

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This moment is so girl dad coded of Kinger. (or Girl grandpa coded mayhaps?)

he hasn't had a big moment of sanity on screen with Gangle, but i so need him to give her some fatherly/gradfatherly love to.

Also Kingers high parental vibes and how he gets Ragatha to answer yes or no questions when she was unresponsive feels experienced. with both Pomni and Ragatha he gives them space to express their feelings and prompts them when they start to not know where to go next "you said this makes you feel this. why?" he brings in an experience of his own to relate to the thing they're struggling with, he's so good with comforting and encouraging words. He's done this kinda thing A LOT. it gives me the headcanon that he either, had a daughter, frequently trained new workers and ended up as a mentor or maybe was some kinda coach, scout leader so on. Something that gave him practice at comforting