thoughts no one asked for on the golden hour part 4 promo photos:
what stood out initially are the similarities between these pictures and the dining room from the answer mv - while the rooms are not one in the same things are similar enough you could almost equate it to being the answer manor but slightly to the left.
hongjoong and san's photos give us A LOT to look at right off the bat.
what grabbed my attention immediately was the razor blade very conspicuously placed on san's plate while there's none on hj's. razor blades can be a symbol of transformation and new beginnings which would tie in well with what we know of the teased impending collision of worlds. what's interesting is it being attributed to san - other interpretations of razor blade symbolism are a removal of distractions, self preservation, or a deepening of connection. it will be interesting to see if that will be relevant.
dominoes are another element present for san, their meaning is a lot more straightforward; connection, teamwork, or a web of relationships. it's not hard to see how that may play a role in the coming events.
(i swear i'll get to the circles, i'm saving them for last)
hj has what appear to be grapes? my eyesight is awful. anyway - grapes are another symbol of transformation as well as more commonly prosperity/decadence. there's a common theme to a lot of the symbolism peppered in here but i don't think we can totally rule out a lil nod to luxury. and circles.
hj (as well as a few others) also have the bell prominent in their display. what could the bell possibly mean? transformation perhaps? yuuuup! transformation, unity, consciousness, and TIME. can't fathom what/who that could be referring to (/s)
crystal balls also make an appearance across multiple table sets, again i'll talk circles in a minute, but just the crystal ball aspect could be in an effort to communicate wisdom, unity, spiritual communication, and unseen realms. so once again we see there's a real running theme with not just transformation but unity.
ok circle time.
ateez utilize a lot of shape language in their mvs - maybe intentionally, maybe it's baader–meinhof phenomenon, maybe it's maybelline idk, but i like to believe it's intentional.
anyway - circles often represent truth (squares lies, triangle rebellion, etc. etc.)
symbolically they can also represent unity, reflection of self, eternity, and the cycle of life.
i don't point out shape language a lot bc imo it's very hard to prove intent with something as simple and prevalent as a geometric shape but it drew my eye so consistently it felt worth mentioning.
i'm not going to tell you what i think this all means for the lore as a narrative, i don't like to speculate too much bc kq always likes to surprise us (and i have a deep fear of looking foolish) but i've shown you some of the tools they've given us in the sandbox for this comeback.
just remember - i'm just a creature on the internet with no qualifications to tell you what any of this means, i don't know shit about dick, but i like spinning media around in my head like a bethesda loading screen.
[crossposted from bluesky | long post, approx. 2.5k words]
If you don't want to read this entire thing here's a very broad TLDR:
My interpretation of Ash is that it's about grief (for lost love, your past self, a loved one, etc.), the inevitable passing of time, the different ways people process grief, and finally acceptance.
Immediately Ash opens on San amidst a scene that immediately invokes the idea of trauma, injury, and/or some kind of loss.
We then have Seonghwa and Yeosang accompanied by photos of someone's retreating back - the who isn't largely important (though it very much seems to be one of them) - which tells us we're dealing with the past in some capacity.
The lyrics "flowers bloom and fall" tell us very early on that life and death are a cycle. Spring is a time of rebirth and rejuvenation while Fall brings decay and death. None of this is in a positive or negative connotation, it's just an endless cycle. Flowers may wilt but they will be born again.
"There is no eternal flame, nothing will stay the same" Nothing last forever and time comes for us all which is really the core of this MV if you don't want to get into the complexities of grief.
"Scooping up ash, kind memories of us" provides us with the cypher to know Ash = Memories, Past, etc.
This is where things get very interesting and a lot more complicated. If you look closely the Black Pirates/Halateez hover behind ATEEZ, obscured but very much there in the shadows. They only appear in scenes related to this funeral-like atmosphere.
As the sand falls from Yeosang's hand pieces of his hand begin to disintegrate and flow upwards - reinforced by the same happening to Seonghwa on a more severe level.
This could be an implication that the white-clad ATEEZ are memories themselves and this song is meant to grieve who they used to be.
The sand in the Cromer also often flows upward during dream transitions/travel.
"Like sand in an hourglass" does not seem like something they'd add carelessly.
"Even if we can't go back, the wind still blows" further reinforces the idea that time is ever-moving. You can't go back and life, the world, the people around you, will continue a forward momentum.
Mingi's "I can't forget you, I can't catch you" implies chasing the past.
He clearly struggles to do so because it's an impossible ask. The past is set in stone, it cannot be changed but only remembered.
As Mingi returns to the grave site something approaches quickly behind him - you cannot run from the past/loss.
This is also where I believe we begin to see perhaps little hints of the different ways people process grief/loss (again of the past, a past self, loved one, etc. I believe all can easily apply.)
Mingi can't forget and he tries to return to the feelings he held before his loss.
"…yearning alone and turn to ash," reinforces his earlier lyrics "days reduced to ashes…scattered time" which essentially is saying feelings turn to memories but memories are fragile and can be lost to time.
The duality of San in this scene implies opposing forces; past and present.
"I'm dancing in the ash" could be interpreted as "I'm losing myself in memories" which can be a good thing and a bad thing. This music video plays with a lot of mirroring concepts and this is def a reinforcing visual.
Rewind a bit back to the beginning we see Jongho place down 3 white carnations in front of a dual-flamed candle.
Carnations are an incredibly common flower used at funerals and white in particular embodies respect, remembrance, and a farewell.
In Korea specifically, carnations represent the month of January which very much could be another tie in the new beginnings and rebirth, tying back to "flowers bloom and fall."
A dual flame candle, however, means an inability to move forward. Jongho is unable to move past his grief/loss.
Confessionals can be a place people go when they're desperate to reconcile with a big event, like the loss of a loved one, and where they may go to seek guidance. It's very likely this is showing Jongho's method of coping as looking for advice and guidance on how to move forward.
You could also read into this confessional as Jongho feeling remorse - which isn't uncommon in grief, especially complex grief. I, myself, had to seek therapy for the amount of guilt I felt after the passing of a loved one, so I don't believe it's out of the realm of possibility but could be a massive projection
Anyway, back to present. "It's still here, your touch. You're not here, this hush." This could be saying "I can still feel how I felt back then, in my memories of you, but you're no longer here. So basically reinforcing the idea that Jongho is struggling to move on.
"Even if the shape changes, forever, smoldering love" So this could be Jongho saying "Even if things change those memories are still very special to me and the one thing I know will stay forever if my love for you."
Someone may be gone, but your love doesn't disappear with them. It's yours to keep.
It's no surprise this might be my favorite part of the MV. Wooyoung gets such interesting moments and I eat them all like a meal prepared by a Michelin star chef. (KQ writers I love you, call me 🤙🏻)
If you guys saw my Wooyoung's relationship with fire post you know I'm a slut for shape language.
The circle of ash is so very intentional. Circles represent truth/answers/etc. What's happening here is we see Wooyoung almost furiously searching through the ash (memories) for answers. Sometimes when experiencing loss we become frustrated trying to find the "Why?" Why did this have to happen? Why now?
The way Wooyoung is processing grief is trying to find that why and at the end of his search he finds a photo of himself, burning away into ash.
This is why I believe this song is more than just the loss of a loved one but can also be read as a grief for who you used to be.
We all have moments we look back on think, "I miss who I was then." It comes free with your yearly subscription of aging, unfortunately.
We recently learned "Now this house ain't a home" was written with the thought in mind that home isn't always a place but a person.
With this in mind it's entirely possible ATEEZ wanted to play similarly with the concept of grief. Each of the boys have certainly experienced loss, especially in the last few years, but there are losses we grieve for without even realizing, and it's kind of beautiful to acknowledge that as well.
Yeosang my sweet angel. Of course his scene makes so much sense.
Yeosang is surrounded by unlabeled drawers overflowing with the very photos of a retreating back shown in the beginning. Some people compartmentalize to process trauma and Yeosang very much seems the type to do so.
Sometimes you need to sort things in your head for them to make sense and sometimes you need to store them away for later, for when you're fully prepared to deal with the resulting feelings they invoke. It's both healthy and unhealthy depending on your approach, but trauma tends to be like that.
In regards to Hongjoong, we see him walking across damaged pages.
Now in the Golden Hour Part 1 diary we learned Hongjoong began to lose some of his memories of their time with the Black Pirates. These pages could be a reference to that since it seems this MV has several nods to lore.
If we want to keep things in the moment and on theme with grief it still applies as a loss of memories as well as possible retracing steps over damaged and fading memories
"Even if you wash faded clothes, it'll just continue to wear off" No matter how hard you try to scrub things away and move on it stays a part of you, stains your heart in a way that may not hurt but still lingers. You can't pretend it isn't there.
So perhaps, Hongjoong damaged those pages himself in an initial effort to forget, because sometimes moving on and refusing to acknowledge what has happened - while not sustainable - can be easy in the moment when processing grief. But eventually, you will have to return.
"There is no sadness, there is no pity, but I continue to pretend, I don't want nail marks on my parting hands, because I loved you." Kim Hongjoong do you know I'm in love with you and your way with words?
This could be read as "I want to look for the good we shared, I don't want this parting to hurt [us], because my love for you wasn't something regretful or worthy of pity."
We know Hongjoong loves playing with his words, though, so "But I continue to pretend" can bring an extra element to this.
"I don't want to pretend [that] I don't want nail marks on my parting hands, because I loved you." I don't want to pretend that I don't want you to leave a mark. Leave it, so I have something to remember you by, because I loved you so dearly. I don't want to forget you.
A tough act to follow but whoa hey here's Yunho! Apparently he was also in the car with San. We have to keep lore Yunho away from cars, PLEASE, haven't they done enough? (iykyk)
"Spilling memories" while grasping his head, Yunho either has a concussion (likely) or recounting his memories is something painful for him (probably) but he's "dancing in the ash", losing himself in these painful memories likely to come to terms with them. (I wish I had more to say, I'm sorry Yuyu)
This next part might actually be tied with Wooyoung's and a future Yeosang scene for my favorites.
"I'm dancing in the ash, I want to hold onto the past, unacceptable fact, even if I can't see you, my love for you, accumulating ash."
I'm lost in my memories, forgetting them would be unacceptable to me even if I can't see you. In honor of my love for you, I'm holding onto these memories.
And for Seonghwa being lost in his memories is truly driven home by the imagery of his broken boat.
He's adrift in a sea of his own memories as well as his grief. His boat is broken, stranding him here in the center of it all. If you look very closely, the photos even undulate like calm waters.
The boat is an important narrative tool here beyond emphasizing Seonghwa's lost state.
Boats in media can often be used to symbolize emotional exploration and personal discovery; the subconscious attempting to deal with emotional issues/transitions.
A sinking boat, however, represents anxiety and a feeling of being overwhelmed.
Seonghwa is afraid and overwhelmed by his despair.
And suddenly, we have Yeosang dressed in black, perched on rotting theater seats. In front of him is the funeral procession, everyone's backs facing him just as in the photos we've seen throughout. For some reason, he's on the outside looking in, an observer rather than a participant.
"The you in my memories never ever fades, the color of the world is getting gray, in my heart, forever, you stay" Even when things are hard, no matter what, I have my memories of you to look back on and find solace.
This tells us exactly why Yeosang is here, dressed in black.
Surprise! This entire time we've been very (very) loosely following the Kübler-Ross model for grief. This model claims that those experiencing a sudden loss commonly experience:
1) Denial [Mingi]
2) Anger [Wooyoung]
3) Bargaining [Hongjoong]
4) Depression [Seonghwa]
5) Acceptance [You Are Here]
Yeosang has accepted that he's experienced a loss but that's okay, at least he will hold those memories fondly in his heart to remember them by.
And we pan to all of ATEEZ in black, total acceptance of the past. And guess what? No more Halateez. Huh. That's suspicious, that's weird.
It's almost like this was a goodbye to them, like the group needed time to process their loss since they were so forcibly ejected back into their dimension. They didn't have time to say goodbye, to process, and suddenly that era of their life has ended and they're left adrift.
But hey, what about spring and fall and death and rebirth and all that? And whose hand is that at the end?
It's Mingi, reborn from the ash and continuing the never ending cycle.
Things may not stay the same, but there's unknown potential in new beginnings.
Very unfortunately, there really isn't a lot to say about San in this MV. The shoulders in the photos we've seen seem approximately wide enough to be San but the face seems very intentionally obscured and truthfully, as I said before, I really don't think the 'who' matters metaphorically.
Regardless, San shone in his singing and dancing, and knowing his propensity for self sacrifice it's incredibly possible he is the one they're mourning and Yunho's pain is - once again - a case of survivor's guilt.
Again, I believe this really only matters for surface level storytelling.
Throughout the entirety of this music video the group has been isolated, each member in their own sort of liminal space in their subconscious.
Loss can feel incredibly isolating and while seeking help from others (friends, family, therapist, etc.) can certainly lighten the immense emotional burden, it is still something we ultimately have to face (internally) alone.
It is, frankly, one of the hardest things you will ever do.
Now to ease us out of this heavy MV here are a few of the tombstones shown throughout, engraved with lyrics. They're nothing too significant, but still fun!
I truly hope you enjoyed this insanely long break down.
The concept/consequences of grief are something I love to turn around in my head like a Bethesda loading screen and this music video truly fed me well.
Thank you so much to Ele on Bluesky for requesting this, it really meant a lot to me to see that my insights and thoughts are valued, more than I can say 🩷 I hope this met everyone's expectations!
(if there are typos/errors everyone mind their business and let me know if you'd like to be added to (or removed from) my lore tag list!)
🦊 Wooyoung: The Flame of ATEEZ 🔥
[crossposted from bluesky]
fire can often be attributed with life and rebirth but it can also negative connotations of betrayal and destruction. ateez is really good at playing with both of these takes and leaving us wondering which is the true intention of the imagery in their mvs, as they do bounce back and forth.
around hala hala is where some overt betrayal imagery begins but i'm saving that for the end because there's a looooong discussion about that
but in illusion era we get the first little hint of wooyoung's relationship with fire as he's playing with matches.
then in wonderland era we see him isolated and excessively chained to a square platform (squares in shape language can often mean oppression, forcing someone into a box.) not anything too overt but suspicious when everything is combined.
fireworks gives us this wooyoung playing with a lighter in front of a large burning barrel and eventually the entire scene is engulfed in flames as he drops the lighter.
deja vu we have woo isolated again but this time with a flower. i'm a flower enthusiast not an expert so i'm not 100% sure what this flower is but i've seen several takes assuming it's a black dahlia so let's play with that.
black dahlias are common symbols of death and betrayal. because. well.
with paradigm we have heterochromia wooyoung with a deep, distorted voice and several quick flashes of graphics leaving emphasis on his eyes. there's an implication of "otherness" with this and it makes wooyoung stand out from the rest.
paradigm is quickly followed by halazia with the iconic burning hat but there's also a little bit of a tonal shift here
it would be easy to attribute the burning hat to an act of betrayal but we later see the rest of ateez around the burning hala scarecrow. the rising ash implies a sort of rebirth (especially so with ash now out)
now ice on my teeth there IS an explanation for the fire once they begin burning the house but it's still a little odd that wooyoung is so comfortable with it imo
in your fantasy provides this moment with wooyoung and sopro that almost feels like a nod to the apple of eden and wooyoung tempting the viewer to take the apple from his hand
now with ash we have multiple instances of wooyoung's association with fire; the burning photo of himself and him framed in flames at the end
this could be a case of Baader–Meinhof phenomenon or intentional, i don't work for KQ, i couldn't tell you. sure, the rest of the boys are often around fire as well but something about woo's association just feels v intentional to me
it's hard to tell if ateez are looking for fire to represent more the destruction side of things or rebirth as they very obviously play with both interpretations and it's entirely possibly they want you to make that distinction for yourself. it's just something v fun to keep an eye out for.
NOW FOR HALA HALA
i could be way off with this but it's one of my fav idea marbles to roll around in my head.
in hala hala there is a point in the choreography where wooyoung very obviously grasps at his own throat
this is particularly interesting when you tie hala hala with the hindu myth
halahala is the name of a poison in hindu mythology that was created when trying to obtain a nectar of immortality (amrita.) no one could endure the lethal fumes emitted by the halahala (yellow gas???) and many began to collapse due to asphyxiation.
the asuras and devas ran to brahma who then told them to seek out shiva for help. when asked, shiva chose to consume the entire poison. his wife parvati acted quickly and grasped his neck with both her hands, preventing the poison from reaching his stomach and turning his throat blue in the process.
it's very hard for me to believe this is an unintentional reference with the throat-grasping choreography as well as the end result of everyone deceased while wooyoung remains, wiping some sort of liquid away from his mouth.
but why would this have anything to do with ateez?
a long journey teaser offers several things people pursue and see as treasure: one of which being eternal life. maybe that's woo's treasure?
some stuff could be coincidental or just atmospheric flavor, either way its all still fun to think about.
anyway i'm just some person on the internet that doesn't even have a college degree. i just like symbolism and art. so don't take me as gospel but also remember this is all just supposed to be for fun 🩷
Hello, I was wondering what your thoughts were on the In Your Fantasy MV and its connections to the lore? For me personally it felt quite metaphorical and maybe kind of thematically connected, but not really showing something specifically happening in the diaries (aside from a lil sopro cameo). I’d love to read what you think!
aaa thank you, it's been ages since i've gotten a lore ask and i've missed them 😭
obligatory these are just my thoughts and theories, i'm probably wrong, sometimes the curtains are just blue, etc. etc.
so i actually do think the in your fantasy mv is lore but like you said very metaphorical or metaphysical even? it's sneaky but there are some little hidden morsels in there.
we can see here in the diary that sopro, when feeling what i think would be better described as shame rather than embarrassment, retreats into some sort of pocket space only they seem to be able to access. they describe the masked faces laughing and the spotlights with the masked crowd chasing them.
now this is all if we want to assume this is an actual space sopro is inhabiting and not just purely a metaphor for writings sake, but i think most of it still works even if we wanna just go with a metaphor.
so here we have the masked people in the club. ateez are largely avoidant of the crowd, weaving around them, and moving against them instead of with them. they're also completely isolated from each other for the better half of the mv. (yeosang briefly lays in someones lap but they literally don't even move, almost like a mannequin)
it seems like in conjunction with the lore knowledge the music video could be alluding to letting go of shame and embracing your inner fantasies or dreams. this works a bit more when you consider where the A World group is at in their current journey - wondering if they've done the right thing, trying to find their dreams/fantasies again, etc.
we see a bright glow from sopro before the boys are grouped together again and i think this is a visual demonstration of what we've already seen in the lore, the separation during work and the slow return to each other. from there we get the 'break it down' moment where the masked people assemble to watch ateez under the spotlight. if we wanted to play in this sandbox we could say the 'break it down' could be a reference to breaking through shame, uncertainty, etc. and furthering the message of embracing themselves.
another interesting thing we have in IYF is visual confirmation of new knowledge given to us in the diary.
on the left is sopro from the the world ep will outro where they're nothing more than a slightly larger than normal dice but what we learn in the diary is that each time sopro enters someone they come out a little larger than before, which we can see in the picture on the right where sopro is now roughly the size of wooyoung's palm.
i'm way too tired to make a gif for it now but another interesting thing i noticed when rewatching was in this scene with wooyoung the color is actually sucked into sopro which could be a visual representation of what they're capable of, fun flair for the mv, or something we just don't know yet.
overall, these are my basic thoughts for the mv; it doesn't give us a lot but there are little treats here and there.
for some bonus stuff i only just realized - in the scene with sopro wooyoung's eyes are red.
unlike the other screenshots i didn't modify this one at all (the others are sharpened, selective color, etc.) and if you look closely wooyoung's eyes are red compared to the grayscale of the rest of him. i don't think this is accidental as why would you color grade everything just to miss his eyes? if it's meant to be a reflection i think it'd be much brighter given the base color of sopro and the light we can see them give off, as well as the lack of a red reflection on his leather jacket.
i don't really have any thoughts beyond that (tho i'll be adding it to my secret lore wooyoung theories stash) but i thought it was something interesting to point out.
edit: @sparklyeyedhimbo has informed me that all their eyes are red during the b&w sequence so nvm lmao maybe it's just to represent sopro's influence over all of them.
you can see some of my other first impression thoughts on the mv here!
but yeah pretty much this was what i took away from GH3
so i know there are lots and lots of ways to look at this MV, that's what makes it so fucking fun, but the one that has really got my gears turning is the story line of baggage, toxicity, and freeing yourself. when i look at it through this lens i essentially see:
current day Jeff ignored all signs of toxicity in his pursuit of a relationship, however, began to resent his partner and missed who he was before they met because now he is losing his sense of self. meanwhile, future Jeff fights and works through the baggage he's carrying around from this relationship, making his way through his past.
when current day Jeff is poisoned his partner's toxicity reaches its crescendo and when he's put in the glass box for auction this is the point where Jeff feels trapped in their relationship and doesn't know what to do about it. (i'm a little stuck on why she looks like she feels guilty? unless that's for the more literal part of visual storytelling.)
future Jeff arrives and he can finally put his baggage down because he's finally gone all the way back to the start and made peace with what he went through. he points (maybe at her, maybe at current Jeff, idk) almost like he's saying "i know what you are and what you've done to me." or "i lived bitch." or maybe he's pointing at Jeff inside the box in a moment of reassurance or a declaration: "i came for him."
with his new sense of peace future Jeff takes current day Jeff's place in the box and sets himself free. he's worked his way through his past and maybe now knows how to handle the relationship better, maybe he just knows this will save him too in the long run, or maybe he's just that at peace.
either way, Jeff was the only one that could save himself (a seemingly recurring theme in his MVs; you can be your own hero or your own worst enemy) and now he's free of a love that was poisoning and trapping him and he can rediscover who he is.
idk, i just enjoy turning his MVs around in my head like a bethesda loading screen.
finally capable of thoughts again so time to lore yap
can we talk about wooyoung offering sopro like the apple in eden as soon as the lyrics say "devil in disguise"??? they're so full of fucking shit every time they say the betrayal imagery with wooyoung is unintentional, i stfg
there are SO many instances of wooyoung interacting with or on display with different symbols of betrayal or at least suspicious intentions as well as a few instances of him being restrained in some way
i'm not saying he's a traitor but there's definitely SOMETHING going on, red herring or otherwise
yeosang is often connected to freedom with the use of birds and similar imagery. during the dance break there's a moment where it cuts to yeosang on these steps and the lyrics are "look at her, fallen angel" and i also think that's very inch resting.
the masks in IYF are also very reminiscent of the masks used in Youth (with notable differences) - we've been seeing a lot of mask and disguise imagery lately, including the balaclavas in IOMT. it seems in most cases those wearing the masks are almost invasive in some way.
idk IYF is just overall a very interesting addition to other themes we've seen lately.
🌸 btw i used to do this for bl meta and gifsets but if anyone would like me to tag them in any of my lore ramblings pls feel free to reply and lmk 🩷
one thing 'the next prince' is doing that is making me insane already is the emphasis they keep putting on these little legally distinct werther's originals
these little pieces of candy wrapped in fake gold foil are so much more precious to khanin than all the gold emmaly could ever offer
bonus baseless pondering ⤵
as best i can tell khanin's birth father (forgive me, i'm still learning names) is wearing a ring with tiger's eye?? maybe?? going off that assumption
That color speaks volumes about what Tiger’s Eye represents. Strength, power, confidence, intelligence, daring, and following one’s own heart and head, no matter the odds.
This is a stone about seeking out the horizon and making your fortune your way, on your terms. But still with a bright smile and a sense of self-assurance that is impossible to shake.
...
Tiger’s Eye has always been regarded as a mysterious and powerful talisman because it’s all-seeing and all-knowing.
(source, totally anecdotal and just for funsies)
Tiger eye is also, interestingly enough, a recessive gene found in horses that causes diluted eye color.
