#orojuice

[megashadowdragon]

Fate/Gag Order (Fate/Grand Order "Comics") (Updates MWF) [#256 (Debunked) Game Theory: The True Identity of Traum's Sengoku Archer!?]

#248 Medusa: Spiritron Dress-Up Gone Wrong, Gone Greek, Gone Gorgonomachy "You didn't knock last time either!!!" Commentary: Medusa's goi

"You didn't knock last time either!!!"

Commentary: Medusa's going back to her pre-Animation Update version of the NP for this one. Yes, that costume is really called that in Extella Link. You can have it with veiled and unveiled modes. It looks pretty okay in combat. This is the last Andromeda/Medusa joke I'm going to make, because so far it's the only other one there is besides the name of Medusa's Blood Fort NP. Still kind of weird. Don't know what Type Moon is telling us, but I thought it worth pointing out one more time. Incidentally, if Andromeda looked just as good in that outfit as Medusa does, then I can understand Perseus jumping off his flying horse to beat down a kaiju to save her despite just having fought the Gorgon. Respect.

from spacebattles

[megashadowdragon]

r/grandorder - Up from the Depths, 30 Nodes High, Bulging Fluff, His Horns in the Sky!

783 votes and 63 comments so far on Reddit

[megashadowdragon]

Medusa: Dress-Up Gone Wrong, Gone Greek, Gone Gorgonomachy

Medusa: Dress-Up Gone Wrong, Gone Greek, Gone Gorgonomachy

reddit and spacebattles comments

"You didn't knock last time either!!!"

Commentary:

Medusa's going back to her pre-Animation Update version of the NP for this one.

Yes, that costume is really called that in Extella Link. You can have it with veiled and unveiled modes. It looks pretty okay in combat.

This is the last Andromeda/Medusa joke I'm going to make, because so far it's the only other one there is besides the name of Medusa's Blood Fort NP.

Still kind of weird. Don't know what Type Moon is telling us, but I thought it worth pointing out one more time.

Incidentally, if Andromeda looked just as good in that outfit as Medusa does, then I can understand Perseus jumping off his flying horse to beat down a kaiju to save her despite just having fought the Gorgon. Respect.

Perseus: I don't whether to find this creepy ... or oddly arousing. Medusa: Well, you will have time to think about it, ... once I bury you six feet into the ground! Perseus: That still won't erase the image from my hea-arghhh!!!

Perseus has got to be my favorite mythological hero. Most interpretations of him I see portray him similarly:

-Hotshot young kid full of dreams and ambitions

-Kills Medusa

-Becomes irreversibly traumatized

-Immediately retires, marries an African princess, and has a shitton of kids

-Names one of his daughters Gorgophone

In many ways he's the polar opposite of Achilles. Achilles was told that if he kept his head low, he was destined to live long and healthy, yet unknown. So he chose to fight in the Trojan war and die gloriously. On the other hand, Perseus got a small taste of heroism and immediately dipped out to become a family man.

I remember much earlier in this thread under another Perseus comic, Orojuice noted about how Medusa, at least in the most well-known Ovidian interpretation, is like a dark mirror of Perseus' mother, who was the reason why he went on the quest to begin with- both women, single mothers who were used up by the gods and discarded like tissue onto some remote island where they could only do their best to take care of their family. Perseus, upon confronting Medusa, is confronting another version of his mother and in doing so is given what is essentially all the power in the world- his world, which consists of just his mother and the island he grew up on. He controls who lives and dies in this world, so who does he choose? Does his mother have any more right to live than this woman who is identical to her? And if they are equal, is it "just" to choose his mother over Medusa because of a personal preference?

I think that comic was posted a couple of years ago, and I've been thinking about it ever since.

Anyway, a while back I used to have a draft of a Percy Jackson fan fiction where the OG Perseus came back from the dead and started dating Medusa while the two of them annoyed Percy (Who he called "Junior" much to Percy's chagrin) like the aunt-and-uncle-young-enough-to-conceivably-be-your-older-siblings that he never had. That part is completely unrelated but I had to get it off of my chest because I don't write fan fiction anymore and will likely never get to talk about the Perseus x Medusa ship ever again. (Some of that may have rubbed off on the servant sheet I made for the teenaged Assassin-class Perseus I wrote about a year ago)

[megashadowdragon]

Game Theory: The True Identity of Traum's Sengoku Archer!?

source : www . reddit . com/r/grandorder/comments/16ankiz/game_theory_the_true_identity_of_traums_sengoku/

reddit comments Commentary:

No, I’m not talking about Detective Ikeda Sen from Return to Shironaga Island.

This is my own little theory as to who the unnamed but still important enough to get a unique portrait Archer in Traum is. Namely, that it’s Nagayoshi’s IRL waifu!

She’s been mentioned on here before in the FGO community by u/10gn and u/wep_wawet in these posts.

The big “clues” are that she’s a riflewoman from the Sengoku period, which given how Fate will throw a genderbend curveball every now and then might not mean much, and that she’s apparently a Buddhist nun. Both criteria fit Ikeda Sen very nicely.

Ikeda Sen was born around 1563 to the Ikeda Clan. She was educated to a high standard and trained in martial arts.

Unusually for a woman at the time, she also became well-versed with firearms, particularly the “Tanegashima” arquebus which was highly favored by teppogumi (gun units).

Sen would eventually lead a Teppō unit of her own consisting of 200 female musketeers.

When precisely she was married to Mori Nagayoshi isn’t clear, but it had to have happened sometime between 1574 (assuming everyone involved waited for at least one of them to turn 16, the average marrying age during the Sengoku period) and 1584.

There’s even less to go on in regards to the state of their union, but Nagayoshi was on good enough terms with the Ikedas (Sen’s father didn’t like him though) to be a frequent ally to them during campaigns.

Ikeda Sen and many of her family members have the distinction of filling out the Great Uniter bingo card of the Sengoku Era, as they fought for and against each of the major administrations associated with Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu (if not the men themselves).

Sen might have fought to avenge Oda Nobunaga under the banner of Toyotomi Hideyoshi during the Battle of Yamazaki against Akechi Mitsuhide’s forces. This is somewhat in dispute, but there are anecdotes claiming she did, and some evidence that she at least tried to volunteer for that army.

Ikeda Sen’s next major theater of combat was the Battle of Shizugatake between Hideyoshi and Shibata Katsuie, wherein the Ikedas sided with the former and lay siege to Gifu Castle.

The Battle of Komaki and Nagakute was next, the historic clash between Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu (well, technically Oda Nobukatsu). With the Ikeda Clan fighting for Hideyoshi once again, Sen’s father Tsuneoki devised a plan to outflank the Tokugawa forces to attack Ieyasu’s stronghold at Okazaki Castle directly.

Unfortunately for the Ikedas, the movements of their 6000-strong would-be siege force did not go unnoticed, and they were eventually boxed in by pursuing Tokugawa armies.

By the time the Battle of Komaki and Nagakute ended in a peace agreement between the two lords after much back-and-forth in military advantage over several months, both Sen’s father Tsuneoki and her husband Nagayoshi had fallen in battle.

Nagayohsi and Sen had no children.

Eventually, Sen remarried. This time to Toyotomi daimyo Nakamura Kazuuji. They had two children together, including the future first lord of Yonago Domain.

Kazuuji would leave Sen as a widow once more upon his death in the August of 1600.

Afterwards, the now 37(?)-year old Sen became a Buddhist nun.

This peaceful transition did not last as the Battle of Sekigahara flared up just a couple of months afterwards in October of that same year.

There are possibly apocryphal sources that claim Sen picked up her old gear and entered the fray alongside the rest of the Ikeda Clan, this time fighting for the Tokugawa faction.

I really want this to be true, because the image of her being approached to come out of retirement to fight in this battle, only for her to say “no” before deciding to say “yes” and reassembling her old squad is just Hollywood in the best way possible to me.

This might seem unlikely, given that Ieyasu’s armies killed both Sen’s father and first husband for what was ultimately an interim conflict with dubious gains.

On the other hand, Ishida Mitsunari had a bad habit of burning the bridges his regent had built and alienating allies on his side of the shore. So the Ikedas ditching him out of spite is rather probable.

There were records of Sen’s life written as late as 1640, making it likely that she lived for more than 80 years.

As to the reality and fantasy of Ikeda Sen’s military career and the 200 other gunwomen at her side, there is a strong article of evidence that indicates that at least some of it happened: rice.

“Rice Wages” (or koku) to be exact, an estimate based on the total economic yield of a person’s land. By the reckoning of 1650 Japan, the country was assessed at 26 million koku.

For her various exploits both in combat and politics, Sen was awarded 10,000 koku on record. Not an astronomical sum (the Shogun directly controlled 4.2 million koku and a person of interest being given over a 100,000 koku wasn’t unheard of), but it was approximately the amount a castellan or even a daimyo would possess.

Now this rifle-toting lady could be, if she’s supposed to be anyone, Tachibana Ginchiyo, Yoshioka Myorin-ni, or Enkyū Myōgetsu, Women in the Sengoku period who fit the criteria (a strong association with firearms and Buddhism).

She also doesn’t show up in Nagayoshi’s GUDAGUDA chronicle chapter. So who knows?

I just thought it’d be cute if it was Sen. She and Nagayoshi could form a nice comedic (if not romantic) couple in Chaldea. They’re both auburn-headed, they both got them psycho gold eyes, that rugged charm, the big chests, and they’d have a classic melee/far-range complimentary skill set.

She could even show preferential treatment to Ranmaru just to annoy Nagayoshi when she’s feeling cross with him.

Maybe it’s just the hopeless romantic in me.

But hey! That’s just a theory. A Game Theory (minus the NFT-parsing and milk machine smell).

[megashadowdragon]

GudaGuda: The Ieyasu Implication (feat. Bluebell)

source:

source

Commentary:

Art by the talented Bluebell, who did last year's New Year's Special comic if you recall.

Now that I think about it, perhaps the reason Ieyasu hasn't shown up in FGO or even REDLINE is that his very character arc seems to break conventional narrative. He is a man who, from even his formative years of being a political hostage, seemed destined to be fodder. There's this sense that if he had been a cast member in a story rather than a real life guy, he would've been killed during either Akechi or Mitsunari's respective coups to establish a threat level. By that same token, maybe it would've been apt if he had suffered a karmic Agamemnon-esque demise for killing his own son - or perhaps his son would escape the assassination attempt and become the protagonist in a narrative where he must oppose his father's (and his father's friends') tyranny.

But that doesn't happen. He survives both coups thanks to a bunch of grit, a bit of luck, and a lot of help from his pals (Hanzo, Mototada, etc.). He successfully executes his treasonous kid. And then that kid's mother (but not their daughter who wasn't as traitorous as either of them). And not only does he wind up becoming shogun despite being kind of typical compared to Nobunaga (wildcard madman) and Hideyoshi (rags-to-royalty tactician), but he also got a consort, and then remarried, and after his second wife tragically died soon after of natural causes, he threw up his hands and decided to go full harem route over a dozen strong and spread himself around, resulting in a grand SPECULATED low-ball estimate total of 20 kids by the time he croaked (placing him below Nobunaga's 28 and above Hideyoshi's 4, if you're curious).

But he's not all villainy and vice either. Despite being less exciting (and charismatic) than either of his predecessors, he managed to strike up a lot of genuine friendships, alliances, and associations. A lot of which are tied into his abilities as a Servant.

And as harsh as his treatment of his aforementioned scion was, he was also capable of mercy. Which, arguably, almost makes that whole filicidal capital punishment decision worse. Most crucially, he voluntarily provided sanctuary to the remnants of the Iga ninja clan after they had been shattered by Nobunaga in conjunction with their rivals, the Koga clan. And then doing the same to what was left of the Koga clan when Nobunaga turned on them, because while Nobunaga was fond of tricky gambits, he did not like being made the victim of sneak attacks and guerrilla warfare himself. Just ask those warrior monks. In fact, it’s rumored that the sniper Sugitana Zenjubo who tried to assassinate him twice was a ninja. Now, Ieyasu did not need to do this. Both clans were almost worthless in terms of military utility after this battle, and he could’ve easily curried favor with Nobunaga by using the ninjas as bargaining chips. Instead, he shielded them (this is how he met Hattori Hanzo). And years later, during Akechi’s coup, the typically feuding clans paid him back by escorting him across the country back to his territory when he was being hunted when they - still holding a grudge against Oda - could’ve just handed him over to Akechi and aided the usurper in defeating Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Nobunaga’s #2 who had been complicit in his many deeds both glorious and gruesome.

If Akechi is indeed Tenkai, then it speaks to Ieyasu’s capacity to forgive in his later years (though Chacha would understandably argue otherwise). And in FGO, this generosity imbues loyalty in Akechi so fierce that even with the entire Tokugawa lineage defeated in the Ooku Labyrinth Event, he sacrifices his life to in hopes of providing the means to defeat the mad God of Love to a potential rescuer.

So what you should glean from all this is that Ieyasu is a very wild and dark figure, but in a very unorthodox configuration. He’s not traditionally complex as much as he is objectively difficult to pigeonhole. Which is why his vassals like the Yagyu family, Adams, and Honda tend to assert themselves more easily in the minds of audiences since they can more easily synch with more concise archetypes. If Ieyasu shows up in a work of fiction, and he's not the antagonist, then chances are he'll be a supporting character at best.

Fate's rendition of him as a gloomy neurotic really intrigued me, because it was a uniquely sympathetic image. Writers tend to have him lean towards some combination of dull, cranky, or sly since to casual observation, he seemed to gain the title of shogun by just outlasting the two more interesting unifiers than through any real valor or cunning. In fact, some historians argue that his once audacious-seeming drum gambit after his defeat at the Battle of Mikatagahara - where he threw open the gates of his mostly empty stronghold and had drums played and torches lit to make it seem like he was trying to lead Takeda Shingen's forces to an obvious trap where a secret army would lie in wait - was an accidental side effect of him doing that to lead his scattered men to a rendezvous.

These four unofficial yet really beautiful illustration of him by Dd (Mori Nagayoshi's artist) also helped construct the image of Ieyasu that i had in my head. He might be delicate, broken even, but he's still awfully dangerous because he's the guy who made it to the end of the line, and commanded the respect and loyalty of several Sengoku Era standouts. He's made the tough choices, the huge mistakes, the crucial plays, and while they were truly awful experiences, they were well worth it even if he occasionally stares off into the distance and wonders why he can't taste food sometimes.

To wit, milquetoast sub-boss turned sinister seinen final boss a fraction of the time, and this the rest of the time.

And I think you could still reconcile this with his original draft as just a body double of Ieyasu who can use his link to more legitimate warriors. Just have him be the real one and then have him pretend to be an innocent body double whenever he can't be bothered to deal with anyone who has an axe to grind with him (Amakusa, Muramasa, Chacha, and whoever else). Or if he must be a body double, then at least give him some agency and incorporate as much of the historical Ieyasu's bonkers journey into his character. If he must be a Pretender, make him a great one.

Hopefully, it would make Ieyasu a fascinatingly uncomfortable figure in a franchise where the likes of Bluebeard and Ivan the Terrible already exist.

So I wanted to somehow encapsulate all that with this comic where Akechi is reminded that while Nobu might be his god, and Hideyoshi his enemy, Ieyasu was his BOSS until the day he died, and forgave him for the assassination attempt rather than execute him for this insult like he did with member of his own immediate family for reasons he may never know.

So I can't blame Hidetada for listening to his father often during the Ooku event as, well, see above.

That said, neither the Ooku event or this comic are entirely accurate, as while Hidetada was his favorite son and successor, they did have their disagreements, particularly with how to deal with the remnants of the Toyotomi (who Hidetada had once been a hostage to as a child, much like his father was to the Oda). Their joint inability to come up with an acceptable solution for all sides during a period of purported peace was one of the core contributing factors to the 1614 Siege of Osaka coming to pass, which would be Ieyasu's final military campaign (don't get too excited, he died a year after it was over).

Gudaguda as a storyline seems to really like the story arc of an individual naturally talented genius who made history but whose downfall was caused by their inability to emotionally connect with the 'normal' people around them, so Ieyasu as the bland, unmistakably human guy who just happened to outlast all of the flaming dumpsterfires on team 'Unifying the nation through force' seems a bit too slippery to slot into the story in the same way as Nobu or Kagetora.

Ironically, Fate Ieyasu's probably a bit further down the road from where Guda's mental state is heading at this point, someone who was incredibly human but still strong-willed, and earned the respect of legendary heroes and mythical warriors, but has been cracking slowly for quite a long time under the shee

r weight of responsibility that's been on their shoulders.

I feel like if any character can convince Guda to get some fucking help for their brain problems, it would be Ieyasu.

[megashadowdragon]

Zero/IF: Tokiomi Tohsaka summons Archer Enkidu

source : www . reddit . com/r/grandorder/comments/16cf7q7/zeroif_tokiomi_tohsaka_summons_archer_enkidu/

Enkidu for the Win? Yeah, he's basically Better Gil in the sense he doesnt fuck around and uses his OP Bullshit to the fullest potential. The ironic part is that he's one of the few Servants that doesn't really NEED a Master due to his strong connection to Gaia supplying him all the Mana he could ever need, but he's a good (enough) sport to play along with his Masters desires (to an extent). Heck, he'd practically be a Grand Lancer if it were not for how strict the requirements it is for a Servant to be Grand. All Servants in the 4th HGW would need to team up to be a serious threat to him, and even that's not a guarantee.

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WildPlatypus88 • 3 days ago I mean, he’s still a Servant, so without a Master to serve as an anchor he would still disappear, regardless of how much mommy Gaia is pumping into him. What he can do is transform himself into a budget Grail, so unless the person who summons him is aiming for the Root or something crazy like that, they could have their wish granted anyway

"But I ask: are you unafraid? They may be a friend of mine, but they do not make any distinction between good or bad. They are like a finely honed blade. Handle it well."

-Gilgamesh

Commentary:

What do you want? If Enkidu was summoned in Fate/Zero instead of Gilgamesh, he would’ve killed pretty much everyone. Not without some caveats and lucky breaks, granted, but that’s classical hero work in action. Like Tintin during his American adventure.

Err. Sorry to anyone in the Fate/Zero cast who isn't the Tohsakas, Enkidu, or Shirou.

For those who didn’t watch the Solomon movie, Enkidu fights pretty pragmatically.Doesn’t waste time on fancy stuff if a quick and cheap attack will do. This is not Fate Strange Fake“what a fun duel this is” clae. This is “gotta win fast” clae.

There would be conversations about squires, vassals, footmen and the like - Diarmuid sees a bit of himself in Enkidu - as well as little asides about man's place in nature and what may come next.'

However, I'm going to level with you. This comic was originally just the first page.

Because clae don't play.

It wins.

[megashadowdragon]

Jaguar & Tezcatlipoca's Reunion Photo Tour!

Commentary: You can consider this a spiritual successor to Babylonia Omake: Jaguar Man's Último Adios.

"

Jaguar PELIGRO!!!

Commentary:

You thought I was out of Jaguar Memes? You're wrong! I just saved the best for last.

As a loyal minion of Tezcatlipoca, Jaguar Man joining up with Quetz is kind of like the pet (or No. 2) of the villain shacking up with the protagonists for an episode. It's a cute change to the dynamic, but you know it can't last because that mutt's only really doing that out of convenience until the status quo kicks back in.

So Quetz treating her with suspicion is pretty justified. They've been enemies for an entire mythos and she knows that Jaguar's only trying to kiss up to her because her usual boss isn't around.

Likewise, I'd like to think that Jaguar wouldn't mind getting a good hit in on Quetzalcoatl before scampering off back to the Throne and the Court of the Smoking Mirror. At least, that's how I like to regard their dynamic.

This comic and its punchline were partially inspired by this X-Play sketch. Anyone else remember X-Play? Good times.

The title of the comic is a reference to "Mi Ultimo Adios", the final poem of Filipino writer and national hero Dr. Jose Rizal.

While Cabron technically means "male goat" in Spanish, it is usually used as a catch-all expletive/insult. Please don't recklessly say it in public. I wash my hands of the mater.

Jaguar puts the (True) label after her boss' name to further distinguish him from how his four fellow creator gods Quetzalcoatl, Huitzilopochti and Xipe Totec are alternatively known as the White, Blue, and Red Tezcatlipoca respectively.

Tony the Tiger and Star Trek references. Couldn't resist. Sorry.

We'll be going back to the regular schedule after this strip. I hope you enjoyed these back-to-back marathon miniseries!

Do you guys prefer to call not!Taiga "Jaguar Man" or "Jaguar Warrior"?

"

orojuice commentary More Primeval Villain + Cat Archetrope Adventures! Had this idea since LB7 dropped, but I could never get Georgios to look right for the lead-up panel. That is until I remembered that CE of his. Finding that red waterfall background was also a huge boost since initially, I just placed a blood splatter on the final camera shutter background before the last panel would show the same background before that but without the duo. Much more fun this way. For Quetzalcoatl. According to the 8th Anniversary FGO interview with the creators, the giant robotic ghost that Tezcatlipoca summons for his NP sometimes? Apparently, his illustrator Shou Tajima was given complete freedom to do whatever he wanted for the Sun God's Third Ascension so long as he followed the specifications for the first two. The robotic ghost was his initial submission for that. And yes, this Third Ascension Tezcatlipoca was always that big. Nasu and the other creative heads liked it a lot, but they couldn't find a way to feasibly program it into the typical three Servant line-up. Mr. Tajima was asked to make a more typical Third Ascension in its place. However, while they couldn't have it in the game as a playable sprite, they did model it for use in Tezcatlipoca's First and Second Ascension NP sequences. So if he had, theoretically, transformed into that to fight Quetzalcoatl in this comic, he could've produced roughly this much blood.

spacebattles comments

Mash: Jaguar Man! Tezcatlipoca!

Fujimaru: D-D-Did you just take pictures of a m-murder?

Georgios: That's the scary part, Master. I didn't.

Fujimaru and Mash: Huh?

Georgios: Those pictures you're looking at? All of them were taken at the same spot at roughly the same time. It was supposed to be a photo of them enjoying their day in the city. Then, when I took more shots, I got those images. (shudder) The whole thing just creeps me out. I'm thinking of brining my camera to a temple to have it cleansed or something along the line.

Mash: What could this mean, Senpai?

Fujimaru: I'm not s-

Jaguar Man (passing by): Oh boy, nya! I can't wait to go on that hiking trip! Just you and me, Tez!

Tezcatlipoca: Yup! Just the two of us in the woods! No one to bother us as we enjoy ourselves! Wait, what about Coatl?

Jaguar Man: Nyot to worry! I sent her on a wild goose chase across the Sahara Desert!

Tezcatlipoca: Ha ha! What an idiot!

Fujimaru, Mash and Georgios: …

Georgios: Umm … guys? Do you think that my camera could have been taking photos of the future?

Fujimaru: Georgios? For our remaining sanity, please just drop the subject.

Georgios: But-

Mash: Senpai said to drop it.

[megashadowdragon]

314 votes and 14 comments so far on Reddit

comments on reddit

"Admittedly, what do I know about fathers? I never knew mine."

Commentary:

I thought you could use a break from Artoria v. Mordred strips, so here are a bunch of different dads mucking about in Fate/Gag Order.

These were originally three different potential Father's Day Special strips, but remembering Jason's loosely defined Noble Phantasm gave me the perfect framing device to link them all together.

Funnily enough, one of Asclepius' many potential Argonaut crew mates depending on which canon you prefer is King Admetus, an old lover of Apollo's who was also his boss for a time (Apollo had been locked into a mortal form as punishment for one crime or another against his fellow gods). And who could blame the Sun god? Admetus was handsome, able-bodied, and a gracious host and employer. Unfortunately (mostly for Admetus himself), he was also a massive goober. After the Argonaut quest and Apollo helping him win the hand of Alcestis (of the titular play), one of the best mortal wives an Ancient Greek man could possibly get (next to the likes of Penelope and such), Admetus hosted a massive celebration during which he paid tribute to the entire Greek pantheon. Except Artemis. Presumably, he thought that being a former fling and cherished friend of her brother's would exempt him from having to do so (sacrifices/tributes could be very costly). He was wrong. And to prove such, she filled his entire palace with snakes. Again, Apollo came to Admetus' rescue but told him that the snakes would continue to rain down upon his land until he paid Artemis her due. And they did until he did.

If that wasn't bad enough, it soon transpired that Admetus was cursed to have a rather short (if eventful) life. Apollo decided to do his buddy one last favor and got the Fates (yes, those Fates) incredibly intoxicated so they'd be much more open to his request to give Admetus a couple more decades. Sadly, they weren't quite that drunk but acquiesced that if someone else were to take Admetus' place to die when he was supposed to, he would be allowed to avoid his destined demise. When he was told this, Admetus believed that either one of his elderly parents would be willing to help him out since they had lived long, full lives, and he was, you know, their son. Alas, they were enjoying their retirements a little too much to cut them short. So Alcestis, being a wonderful wife, offered to sacrifice herself to save Admetus. And Admetus, being a goober, took her up on that offer. For that same reason, it was only after Thanatos swooped in and snatched up his noble spouse, Admetus realized that he had made a terrible mistake and that he should've accepted his end with grace rather than hide behind a woman foolish enough to love him. Luckily for the couple, Heracles is around, and wanting to do a kindness for his fellow ex-Argonaut after Admetus had treated him well as a guest, the demigod proceeded to hunt down Thanatos and beat him into submission until he coughed up Alcestis' body and soul so that they could jointly reunite with her now penitent (and ideally less dim) husband.

The moral of the story? It was probably awkward between Asclepius and Admetus while they were sailing on the same boat. I think that's what it is anyway.

As for Peleus, to tell you more about him, I must stress the fact that while there is some debate as to whether Jason pioneered the concept of a superhero team (or more accurately, the configuration of such where its head honcho could be someone who wasn't necessarily the smartest or strongest but the best leader), he undoubtedly and unintentionally laid the foundations for a very popular and occasionally frustrating modern story conceit: Hero vs. Hero. Because while only a handful of Argonauts actually died during the voyage (Hylas, the Boreads, etc.), a lot more died after the team went its separate ways. A few perished due to bizarre circumstances (Ancaeus, Caenis, etc.) and a number of them died during the Trojan War years after the Argonautica. However, an alarming amount of them met their ends thanks to their old allies. Perhaps the most famous example is what happened when Augeas (of the Augean Stables) unlike Admetus, chose to stand in Heracles' way instead of helping him along it.

Peleus, along with his brother Telamon, became an Argonaut to repair their reputations after they had accidentally killed their half-brother Phocus while hunting and after he himself accidentally killed the ruler of Phthia (Eurytion) during the hunt for the Calydonian Boar. This achieved, he would have settled comfortably with his wife Antigone (Eurytion's daughter who he had married before he accidentally killed him) if not for Astydameia, the wife of King Acastus, falling in love with him.

Now Acastus is king of Iolcus and he's the son of King Pelias, who usurped the throne from Jason's father Aeson, imprisoning him and eventually driving him to suicide whilst systematically tracking down and eliminating all of Aeson's children save Jason who was whisked away by his mother (identity varies) to be raised and trained by Chiron. Acastus was also an Argonaut. Why he was allowed onto the ship as one of its crew depends on the telling. Sometimes, he's a hostage given to Jason by Pelias as an assurance that he'll definitely abdicate the throne if he finds the Golden Fleece. Other times, he's there at Pelias' insistence to make sure that Jason doesn't use his 50-strong crew of adventurers and demigods to take Iolcus by force. There is every possibility that Acastus is going to murder his cousin to make sure Iolcus stays with his side of the family. A moot point, since this is Jason we're taking about; the man who somehow managed to get the Dioscuri to work alongside Theseus who had abducted and tried to marry their little sister Helen; the fellow who had the audacity to draft a number of hardy nobles who had taken part in the hunt for the Calydonian Boar into a crew that had Atalanta, the woman who humiliated most of them with her success at subduing the beast; the guy who had every confidence of having Asclepius treat Admetus if he ever got injured despite how the latter had intimately cuddled with the god who had sired and struck down the former; the exiled nobody whose charisma managed to charm dozens of princes and kings into following him on his adventure. He did such a good job at befriending (read: corralling) Acastus, that he assigned him the role as night watchman during the shifts that Jason himself was asleep.

This in mind, you're likely curious as to how Acastus became king of Iolcus. Well, when Jason and Medea returned with the Golden Fleece, Pelias reneged on his promise and told his nephew that he had lied to the imprisoned Aeson that the Argo had sunk along with all its passengers, causing his brother to finally lose hope and to take his own life. His audience did not take this well, and through a very famous act of trickery involving a ram and a pot, Jason neatly sidestepped the taboo of murdering one's own family members...by having Medea trick Pelias' daughters into doing it for them. And so, Jason was once again exiled, and so Acastus became king. Bridge burned. Very sad.

Acastus did not begrudge any of the other Argonauts besides Jason and Medea, and used his new kingly privileges to formally pardon Peleus for Eurtyion's death. This amicable relationship between royals might have persisted if his wife Astydameia hadn't fallen in love with Peleus. When the king rejected her advances, Astydameia fled to her husband and told him that Peleus had assaulted her. Acastus' response to this news was to invite Peleus on a hunting trip, which the unwitting ex-Argonaut took him up on. Since he lacked his friend's uncanny ability for unintentional manslaughter, Acastus bided his time, and once the pair was deep enough in the wilderness, stole Peleus' weapons and provisions while he was sleeping, and left him to die of either exposure or at the hooves and arrows of the wild centaurs that roamed the area.

Abandoned, Peleus wandered the wilds for days until he crossed paths with Chiron himself who helped him return to civilization. There, Peleus was informed that Acastus had not only pronounced him lost and presumed dead but had also sullied his name with claims that he had attacked Queen Astydameia, the news of which had caused Antigone to take her own life out of grief at his death and out of shame for his crimes.

Furious, Peleus rallied whatever men who believed his side of the story to invade Iolcus so that he could take the life of a king once more. Intentionally this time. Along the way, he was joined by both Jason and the Dioscuri, and together they definitively and bloodily brought Acastus to...justice.

Comparable to Jason's utter ruination when he tried to do the same, Peleus found great difficulties when he found a new wife. For one, he had forgotten or decided not to invite the goddess Eris to his wedding feast with Thetis. This earned him and his guests (the Greek Gods) her ire, and she would go on to initiate the Apple of Discord scheme to get back at them. You know how that goes. Next, six of the seven children he had with Thetis died in infancy. Lastly, in some myths, his interruption of her attempt to make their seventh, Achilles, utterly invincible causes her to abandon her mortal family in rage.

The play Andromache, set after the Trojan War, reunites the pair for one last bittersweet encounter.

Thessalus was a son of Jason and Medea, and is usually the only child of theirs to escape his mother's filicidal rampage. He becomes king of Iolcus when Jason bequeaths to him all rights to the crown for reasons you are free to infer, and the meaning of which, you are at liberty to do likewise.