Twitter discussion with @ExiledSurfer about paraconsistency
exiledsurfer: I think you & I are in agreement. All methods describing our existence are belief-based attempts at describing the same phenomena.
Ian Mclean: The argument I want to make is that ANY argument but the most trivial arguments will lead to errors of reasoning. Apply Occam's Razor to logical method & take Vlatko's challenge to it: no presumptions.
exiledsurfer: You wanna call this combination 'parasimplicity' then?
Ian Mclean: The best I can come up with for that challenge is an axiom schema that asserts all axioms are partially members.
exiledsurfer: are then all members partial axioms as well?
Ian Mclean: That's one of the things I'm confused about. It seems that all theorems become partially axioms & likewise.
exiledsurfer: Then lets look for a definition of partiality which codifies it.
Ian Mclean: I've recently been thinking this fuzzy-complex form of the Empty axiom schema reflects as Russel's set. Or rather a paraconsistent form of Russel's set. Asking how empty a set is asking, "To what degree is it full?"
exiledsurfer: and again, at what holographic scale of resolution.
Ian Mclean: To my mind, our minds are reflections of the universe(s) we live in. Lower resolution holograms w/in a superhologram.
exiledsurfer: Agreed, and to mine, vice-versa. Chicken-egg is what we seek to unravel - aka prime motion, no?
exiledsurfer: The connection between program-size complexity & algorithmic probability: bit.ly/IlCv9Q Could you adapt this to reflect?
Ian Mclean: The first question is in what way?
exiledsurfer: without presumptions. possible? Is Occam's Razor not a presumption in and of itself?
Ian Mclean: the trick is to nest the presumption in a metasystem: "There are no presumptions in the object system". This is formally equivalent to using the axiom of the Empty set as an axiom schema.
exiledsurfer: From nothing springs everything. I like this - axioms as experimental variables rather than presumptions.
Ian Mclean: Normally, the set would either be Empty or not-Empty; however, fuzzy-complex membership means both to a degree.
exiledsurfer: back to holographic resolution - which becomes a super set of Empty Sets, no?
Ian Mclean: I'm uncertain of how to proceed on that front. I'm not sure if what I end up w/ is simply a CFV universal set or multiset. I've spent time thinking of it as a generalized Empty set w/ members of various non-zero degrees. I've deep concerns about the definition of vacuous truth and circular reasoning. And that would be recursive which is seemingly different from circular reasoning.
exiledsurfer: wait, i mean holographic resolution is a superset of partially empty & partially full sets, the "projectors" measure their states.
Ian Mclean: I think of holographic resolution as being the cardinality of the set. How much information is available to project?
exiledsurfer: granted, agree; you state it more formally than my intuitive grasp of where we are headed.
Ian Mclean: The biggest problem I've come across is the problem of infinity. Something has to change. What is an infinitely Empty set? Comparatively, what is an absolutely unempty set? Universal set? The thing I can not escape in any of this is it all leads to taking paradoxes as theroems and axioms to some degree.
exiledsurfer: para-paradoxicality and para-axiomacy can be created and defined as well. why. the. fuck. not. This has bothered me since i was first introduced to sets as a child, and got a ruler across the back of my hand for asking.
Ian Mclean: I loved the idea of sets when I was introduced to them. I especially love recursive sets. Infinitely recursive sets. What I didn't like is what happened next. Along comes transcendental numbers & non-constructable sets.
exiledsurfer: when we first started talking, i introduced you to Hofstaedter's I am a strange loop, i forget if you bit into it or not...
Ian Mclean: I got a copy of it that I've skimmed, but I've been focused on Popper Selections and the Undecidable.
exiledsurfer: Because we are both looking for a understanding of a model of infinity from a finite point of view, no?
Ian Mclean: If the critics of inconsistency and dialethia were wrong about the necessity of explosion in logic, what else? What if we accept paradox face on with some additional caveats? What if we drop the assumption of contradiction?
exiledsurfer: Doing so would certainly prove the simultaneous existence / non existence of god,
Ian Mclean: Prove and refute in a sense. Degrees of divinity.
exiledsurfer: holographic scales of divine resolution.
Ian Mclean:: From sound of 1-hand clapping or of a tree falling in an indeterminate forest to the bite of an apple or a drink of water. Would it be bad form to call this method "grokking"?
exiledsurfer: absolutely NOT. maybe even the best form.
Ian Mclean: In the long run, I think I'm going to have fun with the syntax and naming. Zen mechanics and grokking in a multiverse. The proof of non-countable numbers might become a proof of paraconsistent recursive numbers. Numbers of paradoxical recursion.
exiledsurfer: This is good. i like this. i like it a lot.
Ian Mclean: I wonder what a bootstrap set might look like in terms of mathematical properties. It has no discernible origin.
exiledsurfer: We can also postulate, and accept as a given that there is no need for a point of origin, or of discernability.
Ian Mclean: I wonder what the proof might look like. You start building this system & find that you can't find the beginning. I don't think it would be as startling to find a proof that you could find multiple origins for an event or object. The thing to realize, I think, is the resulting object, U, generally would include the case where ∃U∀axiom(axiom∉U). That case is when axioms are asserted with 0 degrees. Zero point. Suppose axiom = U then Russel's set. So we assume Occam's razor at the metasystem level. What I think of as the bootstrap logic.
exiledsurfer: Assuming this about quantum events is probably a good thing, a correct thing, intuitively.
Ian Mclean: My current view of time is not as a line but as lighting clouds. Phase spaces of possible states with decisions through them.
exiledsurfer: I feel like a midwife at the birth of an idea. This explanation of time is sublimely brilliant, creative, descriptive. wonderful.
Ian Mclean: I've been thinking about negligible error and infinity. Suppose we have an error rate approaching 0. Suppose error ⊕ 0. If we begin speculating about infinite processes, our error rate should begin approaching ¬0 somewhere near ∞. If our logic is explosive, wouldn't that mean inconsistency is unavoidable near or at that point? And what reason do we have to believe that (¬0)⊕(∞)? If the erroneous process is an infinite number of iterations then, in what sense is the error less than infinite?
exiledsurfer: AND, we are both perceptually aware that finiteness and infiniteness are one and the same - but how do we demonstrate it?
Ian Mclean: Why do they exist? Because inconsistencies must not exist lest total contradiction entail. The existence of paraconsistent logics contradict this argument.
sdv_duras: There is no reason to consider it not deterministically. after all dont the laws of thermodynamics apply ...?
Ian Mclean: The determinacy of thermodynamics is an open question.
sdv_duras: do you really believe that the laws of thermodynamics are an open question?
Ian Mclean: I believe whether they are deterministic or not is an open question. Quantum Mechanics & particle physics pose strong arguments for indeterminancy.
David Blackberry:so how do we model indeterminacy in such a way that it recreates the present univ?
Ian Mclean: We might also see it as consistent vs paraconsistent indeterminancy. For perspective, consistently applies locally, hypothetically. Hypothetically, paraconsistency applies to questions beyond event horizons. I'd say we model a universe in which it is possible to perceive (p&¬p). Such a universe would accept degrees of contradiction in language. Keeping in mind that we're talking about abstract language. Language of physical signs of which verbal language is particular. Physical language is a reflection of an abstract language. There are non-physical signs which are meaningful in the language. At least meaningful to the language. At the moment, I'm structuring it in terms of the major hypotheses and trying to represent dependencies by nesting hypotheses. Discovering and noting the dependencies of the hypotheses wherever possible. Noting current "known" theoretical properties. To my mind, this goes back to the arguments I was making about paraconsistence and problems with consistency. The argument strikes at the root of formal scientific and deductive methods, so the argument needs to be sound.
exiledsurfer: which means we need to "formalize" descriptions of intuition inside of expected (accepted - consensual) existing paradigms.
Ian Mclean: If we are to attack the origins the problem, I would prefer to attack it with the problematic methodology. Fold the argument in on itself and show that it leads to what it says it must exclude and include that which it must not.
exiledsurfer: what a gödelesque approach. We must also say, "there is no 'problem', only a state (or multiple states) to be described.
exiledsurfer: the inconsistency being the quantum-relativity gap. Which projector or set of projectors can describe the state paraconsistently?
Ian Mclean: The inconsistency being the point at which the continuous becomes discontinuous in the logic of extremes. A singularity. My guess is that a singularity is an extremely distorted reflection of a paraconsistent computer in itself.
exiledsurfer: yet that inconsistency becomes necessary to describe the intersection of continuity/discontinuity, and therefore consistent.
Ian Mclean: Paraconsistency ensures consistency in some limit.
exiledsurfer: as it ensures inconsistency - but is there a limit to the inconsistency it insures, or is the inconsistency unlimited?
Ian Mclean: That is an exceedingly good question. Preliminarily, I expect that total inconsistency is still excluded. Which amounts to saying that inconsistency is limited to partial or unique inconsistency.
exiledsurfer: Then to what is there 'no limitation' - is paraconsistency 'unlimited'? Why accept any limitations to states?
Ian Mclean: Paraconsistency though may lead to an unbound multiverse. So far, I've only seen Zizzi's renormalized paraconsistent logic. She finitely bounds her system and forbids the object system from capturing the metasystem to maintain distinctness. The next part in the argument about TOE that I want to make is that in principle, no system is more powerful than the TOE.
exiledsurfer: Can you be sure that the TOE is not a subset of Everything and nothing, or just an expression of one potentiality?
Ian Mclean: If TOE describes everything & nothing and only everything & nothing then I would expect it could have no other non-trivial metasystem. So at this point in time, I can only speak from the consistent view point. Paraconsistence changes the argument. Once again though, the point is to make the argument from the edge of consistency. Show that if ∃TOE ⊢Meta(TOE) and Meta(TOE)⊢TOE.
exiledsurfer: Again, this makes distortion a natural and required state - if it exists, it MUST exist, and cannot not exist.
Ian Mclean: And more importantly, it needs to be as complete as possible.