#pixie meta

[pixiedane]

This is a nonjudgmental question, truly, asked out of curiosity: Why is it that you are comfortable shipping J7 but not Michael/Philippa? This is coming, by the way, from someone who sometimes enjoys both ships but also has complicated feelings about whether equivalent relationships would be okay IRL (no) and how that intersects with needing representation (in the 90s vs now), fandom as transformative, canon vs fanon, and how all that interacts. So, not trying to gotcha you. Just curious.

So not only is this a fair question, I actually started to answer it in that response (but ended up deleting it as off-topic). I have a couple different thoughts so bear with me. 

In the fourth episode, Philippa calls Michael “like a daughter” so their canon familial relationship is textually explicit. Janeway’s status as a mother figure to Seven is implicit. Yes, absolutely, the subtext and direction and action and storyline and behind the scenes discussion support and describe their relationship as mother-daughter, but as far as I recall (I haven’t gotten to Seven in my rewatch), Janeway never specifically calls her a daughter. Is this a very fine line of a distinction? Of course. I don’t expect anyone else to agree, but it does make a difference to me. Philippa wants to consider Michael her child. Janeway mothers her whole crew, but she also flirts with them all, her true desires/intentions are murky.

But the crux of it is: we have to remember when Voyager was on air I had a website dedicated to shipping Janeway with everyone. No one was off limits. I was an adolescent, I barely knew what relationships even are. And although I identified very strongly with Seven of Nine, Jeri Ryan was older than me, an adult, and I didn’t, at the time, see a distinction between Seven’s biological and psychological age. My critical thinking skills weren’t there yet. 

I don’t know what my reaction would be watching their relationship for the first time at the age and experience level I am now. All my Voyager shipping preferences are tied up in nostalgia. 

FWIW, my J/7 scenario takes place post-series and, importantly, post C/7. I know that ship is wholly unpopular, and has its own problems, but I actually really like Chakotay as Seven’s first significant relationship. He’s respectful, compassionate, doesn’t push her or expect her to be a certain way. I’m certain he would be slow and gentle both emotionally and physically. He’s a great starter boyfriend. And I firmly believe they are initially drawn to each other over a mutual attraction to the unattainable Kathryn Janeway so I have this romantic notion that one or the other should end up with her. But I ship Seven with B’Elanna more than Janeway. And I now ship Seven with Jake Sisko more than anyone on Voyager. 

Finally, I do want to say Philippa/Michael doesn’t make me uncomfortable. Sarek/Michael would make me uncomfortable. I read it as Michael having a crush that she never reveals, never really really acknowledges even to herself. It’s possible Philippa also has complicated feelings of attraction towards Michael? But I think they’d make her feel uncomfortable. Anyway, all this unspoken and unrequited stuff, and/or Michael and Philippa seeking something they lost – a parent, a child – in each other, is more interesting to me than them having an actual romantic relationship. But that’s just me. 

I hope this makes sense and answers your question. And to be clear, I welcome these questions and conversations.

[pixiedane]

@lionowlonao3 asked what I meant when I referred to Captain Lorca and Michael Burnham as Hades and Persephone. 

Persephone represents the Maiden and is goddess of spring. Michael is introduced as a subordinate and daughter, and set up to be successor to Georgiou (Demeter). Her driving traits are curiosity and wonder. She appreciates beauty. She quotes Alice in Wonderland.

Persephone chooses to venture beyond the borders of her home and she is stolen into the realm of the dead. Her mother is so distraught she causes all the flowers and plants to die. Persephone is trapped in the underworld. Michael chooses to venture beyond the borders of her home and she is drawn into a war with people who attach their dead to their ship. Hundreds of people die, including her captain (mother). Michael is imprisoned for life.

Persephone is held captive by Hades, but he wants her for his queen. She doesn’t trust him and refuses to eat -- but as time goes by, she gains more power in the underworld than she had in her mother’s kingdom and she comes to care for Hades. When her parents appear to take her home, she deliberately eats seeds from a pomegranate so she is forced to remain in the underworld for a certain amount of time each year. She takes her place as queen of the underworld and goddess of the soul.

Persephone represents redemption and the ability to rule over darkness in ourselves and others.

Hades is lord of the underworld, the realm of the dead. He collects souls and secrets. He is ambitious and wishes to displace Zeus as king of the gods. He works in the shadows, makes deals in the dark, and tells just enough of the truth to thoroughly conceal his lies. He steals Persephone because he’s lonely and she’s lovely, but he immediately installs her as his queen and whenever heroes venture into the underworld they are greeted by both as equals, Persephone is often called on to choose someone’s fate.

Lorca orchestrates Michael’s release into his custody. He introduces himself apologizing for the dark and it’s entirely unclear what of anything he says, or anything anyone says about him, is true. He collects monsters and weapons. He asks Michael to stay with him and refers to himself and Michael as kings. He is ambitious and dangerous, and she knows that, and chooses to stay.

Another interesting note: Michael and Gabriel are both archangels. 

[pixiedane]

A friend and I were discussing the finer points of Chakotay x Seska and are very interested in your opinion on them. What brought them together, what broke them up, what the other cell members thought, that sort of thing. Thx!

I am so honored! And I absolutely have thoughts. 

First, we have to remember Seska was a spy. She was on that ship specifically to gather intel, and seduction is a tried and true way to do it. I have to believe ‘what brought them together’ was orchestrated by Seska to bring them together.

So, what was it? We get the one scene in “State of Flux” where Seska is hilariously bad at seducing Chakotay with her soup made from stolen rations (LOL). But she’s hilariously bad at it due to the outside influence of one Kathryn Janeway, who, even so early in their journey, has already won over almost everybody on the ship. Certainly Chakotay. In the soup scene he is presented with the choice to be Seska’s Maquis Warrior or Janeway’s Honorable Soldier and it’s not a question. Because honor has always been huge for Chakotay – it’s why he joined the Maquis in the first place, but also why he was never fully at peace with it. Janeway gave him the opportunity to stop being the Angry Warrior and he took it and never looked back (as he tells her in “Resolutions”).

So I’m a little off track, but the point is, that soup scene actually tells us a lot. As Chakotay is super domestic, and does initially respond to Seska’s soup and wifey act, I feel confident that’s how she caught him. But she played it on three levels:

1. The crafty rebel, because that’s how he wants to see himself.2. The damaged loner, because lbr, Chakotay has a saving-people-thing. 3. The yearning wifey, because, again, Chakotay is super domestic.

I’m sure he held out for a while due to being her superior, but she convinced him he was making an arbitrary choice not to date her because he was afraid to give into his feelings, and it worked because he did have feelings. And because Chakotay was at his lowest in the Maquis. He believed completely in his cause but he hated what he was doing. He hated the Cardassians and he hated the Federation and he hated himself. He was full of hate.

And Seska – Seska was forged by hate. Forged by hate and molded to deceive.

So what brought them together: Seska, playing a part, that spoke to Chakotay’s hatred.

What broke them up? Chakotay was uncomfortable with the power imbalance. But more importantly, Chakotay didn’t like how dark he became while paired with someone who didn’t shy away from it. I imagine Chakotay’s dark side scares him and he spends a lot of time meditating about it. But with Seska….she liked his dark side, she poked at it, she encouraged it (because she wanted him to tell her his plans for Cardassian destruction), and that scared him even more. So he broke it off and told himself he was a bad influence on her, and missed that he had been literally sleeping with the enemy.

Most of the maquis didn’t care one way or the other. They were all there for the cause and/or because they didn’t have anywhere else to go. I’ve said it before: I’m sure everyone was sleeping with everyone. A lot of them were probably impressed Seska broke through Chakotay’s defenses – and pleased, because they were a close knit group and Chakotay was their popular papa bear.

I dunno when Tom was around, but I think he might be one of the few who openly distrusted Seska. Tom wants to be a rebel but he’s still kinda a boy scout and Seska rubbed him the wrong way. Thing about Tom is, he has great instincts that he often ignores. He thought something was off about Seska but he never did anything about it.

B’Elanna, though, B’Elanna and her daddy issues had a crush on Chakotay and Seska was her best friend. Part of her was jealous. But a much bigger part of her was happy that if she couldn’t be with Chakotay, Seska was. She shipped it! And she totally fantasized about a threesome. Now I want to write their drunken threesome.

Chakotay did care about Seska. He didn’t love her – that was the third reason he broke it off. Chakotay believed that Seska wanted a real, committed, relationship. Not casual, not transient. And he couldn’t give it to her, he would only enter that kind of relationship with someone he loves.

Seska loved Chakotay. Seska didn’t really know what love was, but she decided it was this. She didn’t want to change for him. But she wanted to want to change for him. He was so …real. Not like the Cardassians who taught her to live a lie. Not like the Federation that hides all their ugliness. Not even like the Maquis, who are all so driven because they are all so broken. Chakotay was real. He grounded her. He gave her something she never had: home. And then he took it away, and she didn’t know why, and she started to become a real Maquis: driven so as to hide her brokenness.

And then they were dragged across the galaxy. And Chakotay pledged them all to a woman who represented everything Seska had been taught to hate and fear and fight against. A woman who chose to interfere in the natural course of the quadrant on behalf of a bunch of weaklings who live underground and don’t even live long enough to matter – proving what Seska had been taught: the Federation are meddlers who think they know best and act on it with force. 

And Chakotay chose her.

[pixiedane]

If they had kept the lizard babies around, how would you have wanted them to deal with it/what should have come out of it? Sorry this is a weirdly phrased question but I find that idea kinda fascinating.

OMIGOSH AND GOLLY I feel like I’ve been waiting my whole life to answer this question.

First of all, there’s no reason the ship and crew could not accommodate the lizard babies the way they do Naomi Wildman and the Borglings. It would likely have more of an impact because their parents are part of the bridge crew, the captain herself, but there’s precedent.

The babies are fully human so it makes sense The Doctor could de-lizardify them the way he did their parents. It would be cute if they had vague leftover lizardna like Seven has leftover borg implants. Maybe they don’t have hair or have heightened senses or a cooler default temperature or two hearts. Something. But they look mostly human and are raised human. It would make perfect Trek sense for them to age more rapidly than humans do, the way Naomi does, because they were born from a superwarp experiment in time space.

SO. Previously-lizard triplets who age up a little. Neelix is their primary caregiver but they live with their parents in adjoining quarters. Tom and Kathryn are INCREDIBLY AWKWARD for months. At first it is mainly centered around their being surprise parents. The babies probably spend at least a week in sickbay before they move in with mom and dad. Janeway has to be talked into the adjoining quarters but eventually acquiesces for the good of the family. There are many, many rules about maintaining personal space and boundaries. Tom has like four, Kathryn has about 400,000. And the number one remains the same: no fraternization.

 But it’s so awkward! They are co-parenting triplets! Tom has to deal with feeling personally responsible for the whole situation, and with all the scary reasons he chose her, of everyone on the ship!, and all his amazing mixed up feelings about it. But he also falls instantly in love with his kids and with fatherhood, he tells himself he is 1000% going to be a better dad than his dad, and on top of that he’s also going to be a Good Dad. He throws himself into it to prove something – to his absent father, to Kathryn, to himself – but he ends up just really actually ultimately loving being a dad. 

Kathryn, who has this Career, and had chosen against mommyhood even before Voyager got stuck 75 years from her fiance, and definitely after, feels like a fish out of water with the whole thing. She’s good with kids but not with her own! That’s just not her! Plus Tom is not only under her command, but ten years younger, and her mentor’s son. It’s so weird. Not bad, but for sure weird.

So they are super awkward for months. Sexual tension. Sharing quarters but not really. Worrying about their babies and their responsibilities and wtfever the rest of the ship thinks of all this. Feeling disturbingly inadequate about their parenting skills. Super duper stressed out all the time. And then – they realize they can talk to each other. About all of it. And they can laugh because omigod it’s so funny?! And also cry because it’s so damn hard. And it’s like a switch goes off and they end up in this amazingly close relationship that tbh I always want Janeway and Paris to have but keeping the kids makes it necessary and explicit. They don’t hook up, they don’t fall in love, but they are tied together, they love each other, they are a beautiful happy healthy family unit.

Neelix loves the kids, loves being nanny, takes incredible pride in watching after the Captain’s children. Chakotay hates everything but then he gets close to one of the triplets, a girl, and she’s the daughter he always wanted, and she’s Kathryn’s, and Kathryn and Tom aren’t together together, and once he sets aside his ego he’s a great tutor. Tuvok would never admit it, but he is so sad to be missing his children growing up, and having his best friend’s kids around make that a tiny bit more bearable. Harry and B’Elanna are like Legit, this is the strangest thing to ever happen but hey. Tom’s happy and the kids are cute. Harry teaches one to play the clarinet.

They become the whole ship’s babies. Even more so than Naomi, who is herself, far less lonely with some peers. The ship becomes a hometown that much quicker. If the captain can have kids and still be captain, anyone can. The crew start to live their lives more fully, with less fear. 

Gah. I get really upset thinking about the abandoned lizard babies. They deserve so much better!!!

[pixiedane]

HO YES FUTURE'S END IS MY FAVORITE HAVING THE DAY OF MY LIFE HERE

Ha! Right?! It’s a masterpiece. Honestly, I can’t even do justice. For one thing there is this really odd commentary on the counterculture:

Starling is a hippy living in the woods but then he morphs into THE capitalist techie of the twentieth century

meanwhile the timelord from the future ends up a conspiracy crazed bum

Rain would fit right in on Voyager because she’s a brilliant misfit 

Tuvok makes fun of the boardwalk

Chakotay looks askance at punks

Neelix & Kes getting into the soaps seems played for laughs but they defend it and the defense is also a defense of Voyager (the series) itself

It’s so weird??? I don’t think even the writers really know what they are saying with all this. And I couldn’t figure how to work it in either because there is SO MUCH going on. And really their amazing outfits are enough to gawk at in joy.

Anyway, happy to spread the joy <3

[pixiedane]

I've been reading your Voyager recaps, and you seem to have a soft spot for Suder. He's an awesome character imo. Thoughts?

I have many thoughts! He is absolutely an awesome character!

1. Suder a prime example of Voyager’s unrealized potential. I’d like to have seen more tension between the Maquis and Starfleet crews. We only get a handful of episodes about a handful of characters, all of which either assimilate into Starfleet (Tuvok’s boot camp group) or defect and die (Seska, Jonas). Suder fits somewhere in between, which makes him most interesting. 

2. I have so many questions about Suder’s backstory. He’s a Betazoid but he’s psi-null: “Most Betazoids can sense other people’s emotions. I can’t even sense my own.” He has no empathy, which allows him to kill without conscience. The Doctor’s diagnosis is “violent impulses that he just can’t control” — he joined the Maquis because it gave him an outlet but even there he stood out because “he did what he had to do (killing Cardassians) a little too well”. 

I want to know how prevalent this disorder is on Betazed and what the treatment options are — Suder tried violent holographic programs and targeted neurosynaptic therapy but neither worked. Were they prescribed or did he try it himself? The Doctor doesn’t seem to know anything about it so the disorder/defect is not known to Federation Science at large? Did Suder escape Betazed, was he a criminal previous to the Maquis, or did he just leave? He says he hid his impulses from everyone in his life, which sounds incredibly hard to do on a planet of telepaths. What were the outlets for his violent tendencies before he joined the Maquis? 

Also: how many Cardassians have Chakotay and B’Elanna killed?

3. Suder works with Tuvok to redirect his violent impulses and shows progress. But when he meets with Janeway in “Basics Part 1″ his impatience and desires get the better of him and he proves to be still too dangerous to reintegrate into the crew in any way. This is much more realistic and much more interesting than Suder’s sacrifice  + one man defeat of the Kazon in “Basics Part 2″. I would have loved to check back in with Suder every six months to see his slow but steady progress toward rehabilitation. It would be an interesting parallel with Seven.

4. “Meld” reminds us of Vulcan’s violent past, that Vulcans suppress their emotions because they are too strong and turn too easily violent. Again, I want to explore more of this dynamic. Also Tuvok suggests The Doctor could use his encyclopedic knowledge to better understand and address Suder’s disorder. Wouldn’t it be cool if the Doctor and Tuvok and Suder worked together to treat it and then when they returned to the AQ they could present it to Betazed? Like what an incredible happy ending that would be.

5. Basically there are so many topics that could be explored using Suder: Betazoid culture, Vulcan culture, the connection between lack of empathy and violence, mental illness, rehabilitation, Maquis terrorism, forgiveness, Starfleet legal issues, replicator rationing wrt prison, treatment of prisoners, accountability, Tuvok’s role as counselor, The Doctor’s ability to address mental illness, Suder’s dependence on (crush on?) Tuvok, etc. etc.

I just, he’s so interesting. I don’t want him to die a hero, I want him to go on living in the quagmire of grey morality and difficult questions.

[pixiedane]

refer me to a previous ask if you already answered >.< im new to your blog and got hooked reading your voyager recaps. Been so long since I watched! Anyway what didn't you like about Neelix/Kes? Its been too long since I watched to remember if it was bad or not.

Hi! Great question. I’m going to preface with saying these are my opinions based on my perceptions and preferences. I ship all sorts of relationships that could be classified as questionable or worse and I don’t judge anyone who reads it differently or simply finds Neelix/Kes sweet and innocuous. 

I’ll start with mechanics. One problem is that the relationship is established before we meet them so we are asked to be invested in it without any exploration of why we’d want to be. Another is that Kes is introduced as an abused girl and Neelix as manipulative and overprotective (markers of an abuser). These first impressions are shallow and misleading but while Kes gains agency pretty quickly, Neelix is slow to grow out of his paternalism. Finally, it’s unclear exactly how old Neelix is supposed to be but he’s an adult and Kes is presented as the equivalent of a teen. There are fine reasons this shouldn’t matter – they are alien and shouldn’t be judged by human standards, emotionally Kes acts older and Neelix much younger – but it doesn’t help that there’s also a nearly 20 year age gap between the actors. 

In context, Kes was a curious child who dreamed of the forbidden world above and Neelix is the first non-hostile surface dweller she meets so she falls in love with him. That might be romantic and Shakespearean (The Tempest) but it’s super flimsy to build a lasting relationship on especially after she meets an entire starship of explorers. Lack of options is a weak foundation. And thing is, Neelix realizes it and his response is terrible. He tries to limit her ability to build relationships with others, tells her to be wary of all other men, accuses her of being too trusting, too friendly, too open, too curious, and too innocent to take care of herself. He treats her like a child and he says it is all for her protection. His jealousy issues may make him interesting but at the expense of the relationship. I can’t root for something so unbalanced. 

And Neelix exhibits the same lack of respect for boundaries in his other interactions, particularly with Tuvok. Janeway seems to find it cute when Neelix barges into her spaces to demand this or that but Tuvok explicitly tells Neelix to respect his culture/choices and Neelix consistently ignores him. I think the audience is meant to find that cute, too, but I do not. The result is I do not like Neelix and since I really love Kes, I want something better for her. 

[pixiedane]

What do you think it is about Kathryn Janeway that people fall in love with! Everyone from Chakotay, Q, Paris, Seven, hell even Neelix adored her! Was it the Captain thing? Her flirty nature or stubbornness? Was it because she was so unattainable? I'm curious about your thoughts?

I think it’s mainly two things. First, just the force of her personality. In RPG terms she has an abnormally high charisma. This covers her flirty nature and stubbornness, as well as her intensity, her curiosity and imagination, her ability to improvise, her leadership skills and her decisiveness. Janeway can waffle and worry but once she’s decided on a course of action she is completely committed, which reads as confidence (but not arrogance precisely because she does not hide her vulnerability), and that is highly attractive. 

Most of the captains we know share these traits. Kirk certainly. Mirror Lorca’s charisma is how he got through his time in Prime- though his confidence was seen as arrogance, it masked his ruthlessness.  Sisko’s charisma tends to be quieter, but equally intense, if not more so, and he has people not even in Starfleet or the Federation in his corner. Picard is somewhat aloof compared to the others’ hands-on approach to captaining, but he, too, confidently sets a course that engenders loyalty. And then there’s Archer, whose puppy-like charisma is the only explanation for all the amazing people willing to work with him and all the amazing things he manages to accomplish. 

But I don’t headcanon everyone in love with every captain, which brings us to the second reason: Janeway’s “saving-people-thing” (also why I will not accept her as any house other than Gryffindor despite some Slytherin or Ravenclaw traits). She plucks Tom Paris out of prison and gives him a starship to fly. She travels to the edges of space to find Tuvok. She allows Neelix and Kes, and later Seven, to find their own ways to be helpful. She absorbs Chakotay’s entire crew into her own and places him in a position of power second only to her. And then listens to him when he calls her on her Starfleet bias, gets to know B’Elanna, and gives her a chance to prove herself and a sense of purpose. She listens to Kes, gets to know the Doctor, and gives him the chance to become a whole new kind of being. In the middle of a crisis she stops to tell Harry Kim she’s proud of him because she understands his needs. And she feels badly when people like Lyndsay Ballard and the Good Shepherd trio fall through the cracks. She cares, she makes choices based on that caring, and she is fully committed to her choices.

Janeway accepts all sorts of misfits into her community and encourages them to pursue their interests, whatever they are. She tells them they matter, believes in them even when they don’t believe in themselves, and puts them in a position to grow. She places high expectations on her people, and higher expectations on herself. And every single one is devoted to her because of it.