#pro-choice generation

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I see there's a new mod! Hello Amanda!

Hello!  Thank you for the warm welcome.  

-Amanda

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn replied to your post: Conversations with Anti-Choicers: Part Three

the first paragraph makes no sense why were they talking about welfare?? and then pro life what even

  If you’re interested, part two is here – hopefully that clears some stuff up.  If it doesn't, let me know and I will try my best to explain!

-Amanda

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Conversations with Anti-Choicers: Part Three

In a continuation of events from my previous post about my conversation with my mother's step-sister on Facebook, I have to post further replies.

That is the problem with liberals. They think they are the only ones entitled to an opinion and everyone else is wrong if they do not agree with them. And Starr, you are also entitled to your opinion, but I see something wrong with the welfare system when some people work two jobs just to support themselves and their families and going without, while paying taxes to support someone that will not work. Welfare should be a hand up not a hand out.... So sorry I am pro life not pro death. This is the end of my discussion since you have resorted to trying to belittle me for my beliefs.

Of course, there are some very inherent fallacies in this post that just stand out.  I've bolded them for your reading convenience. 

Let me be clear: in no way have I "belittled her beliefs."  I only ever stated that by stating that she would rather let a woman die from an illegal abortion than let abortion stay legal, that she was oppressing, persecuting, and discriminating against other women with beliefs contrary to hers.  There's a difference between "having an opinion" and oppressing/persecuting/discriminating against someone.  She made that difference very clear.

Thus, I replied: 

When you said, "If a woman dies from an abortion...so be it," you made it very evident that you were not pro-life: that sounds very "pro-death" to me. This isn't belittlement - it's education. Like I said above, "You are certainly entitled to an opinion: but you are not entitled to oppression, persecution, and discrimination because of your personal religious, moral, or ethical beliefs." That includes oppression, persecution, and discrimination of people like me, who would have an abortion if they needed/wanted one.

Let me remind all of our readers out there: it is okay to have an opinion.  It is okay to be respectful of another opinion.  It is not okay to oppress, persecute, or discriminate against another person because they want exclusive bodily autonomy for their own person. It is not okay to condone this type of behavior.  If someone says that you are not "allowing them to have an opinion," don't apologize.  Tell them exactly what I've said here.  I repeat: You are entitled to an opinion:  but you are not entitled to oppression, persecution, and discrimination of other peoples based on your personal religious, moral, or ethical beliefs.

-Amanda

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Conversations with Anti-Choicers: Part Two

For those of you interested in seeing the response, as promised, here it is.

"So we agree to disagree. I see abortion as murder and that appalls me. I know I am not the only one that feels this way. My thoughts on welfare? Too many undeserving people are sucking the lifeblood out of the working class by sitting home drawing welfare. If you are mentally or physically disabled, that is a different story. I know of too many cases where perfectly healthy people have kids so they can draw welfare. They usually have different fathers for each child and have a man living with them while drawing money from the government. I am old school Amanda, and conservative. Just because a child may be in inconvenience, you do not get rid of it."

I have tried to stay neutral but it’s very hard when she’s conforming to what I would love to believe are stereotypes about anti-choicers – not only does she think a) abortion is horrible and appalling, and b) that women who die from abortion are no huge loss, she also believes that they don’t deserve welfare assistance.  Here’s my response:

There's no "agreeing to disagree" on this subject unfortunately, especially when you seek to rip away my rights as an autonomous human being. That's the part that's important to remember here. You are certainly entitled to an opinion: but you are not entitled to oppression, persecution, and discrimination because of your personal religious, moral, or ethical beliefs.

It's also sort of ironic that you want all these women to have their unwanted children, but you're going to yell about them drawing on welfare. Even your statement, "I know of too many cases where perfectly healthy people have kids so that they can draw on welfare." I wonder how many of those people were shamed into thinking abortion was wrong? I wonder how many people couldn't afford an abortion, or were made to feel guilty in wanting an abortion, so they didn't? I wonder how many people have guilt tripped a family member into NOT getting an abortion, only to hear that same family member say that they were just "lazy breeders," as you've suggested, just so "they could get welfare."  So my question remains; who's going to take care of all these unwanted children when they're born, if no one wants to give them welfare?

-Amanda

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ofallmediums said: i wanna know what her response to this is

When and/or if she replies, I will certainly make sure to post it.  The thing is, the conversation started out completely politely, as a rational discourse and escalated into “if a woman dies trying to get an abortion, so be it.”  There’s just so much wrong with that.

-Amanda

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Conversations with Anti-Choicers

Yesterday, I posted on Facebook about my recent acceptance as a contributor to a pro-choice blog.  As the conversation ensued, it also escalated, until it came to this point.  I am posting this for people to understand what some anti-choicers think about pro-choicers- and those who seek abortions.

 That is where we disagree. A baby is not a clump of cells. Some states do allow medicaid to pay for abortion. It is not that I want my way. this is my belief. If a woman dies murdering an unwanted child..so be it. Why is her life more important? Medically, they can call the baby anything they want. Mine were always babies. Maybe the solution is if you do not want a pregnancy to interfer with your life, liberty and happiness you should have your tubes tied.

I’ve bolded two statements in this paragraph that are extremely enlightening on how some anti-choicers think.  This is my mom’s step sister, a very obvious conservative, but this statement hit me hard, in that it's incredibly blunt on the subject of women** dying due to illegal abortions. It's also very blunt in terms of "alternatives" to abortion: like sterilization.  I answered all of her other statements, but here’s how I answered these particular two.

“I am actually appalled that you would say something like ‘if a woman dies from an abortion, so be it.’ Most women who have abortions already have children- you would take away her right to life and her right to her already born children's lives to support your stance on abortion? What are your thoughts on welfare? Who is going to take care of this child after it’s born, if the woman isn't financially secure in raising it? 

You're also saying that any woman who wants to have sex should be sterilized? So because I'm still in school, and I don't want children right now, I should sterilize myself? Because my husband and I aren't ready to have children, and if my birth control fails, I should suffer the "consequences," and my husband and I should have to live well beyond our means for the rest of our lives to raise a child that we don't want right now?

Sex isn't just to get pregnant. Sex is to have pleasure and share physical intimacy in a partnership. The reality is, birth control fails. Condoms break. Nothing is perfect but I shouldn't have to live in poverty and misery for the rest of my life just to live by your standards. If it was made illegal, I shouldn't have to seek an abortion that might kill me, and know that there are people out there that would think ‘so what, she deserved it because she wanted an abortion.’”

Some anti-choicers don’t care if a woman dies during an abortion, because that’s what they think that woman** deserves.  This is an important piece to remember when you’re talking to someone about this.  They don’t care about your life.  They don’t care about your right to life.  They don’t care about any of it, because they believe that their religious, moral, and ethical values trump your right to life.

  **Not just a women's issue

  -Amanda