Dude. I feel the like bar for what someone considers masculine on a woman is like. Extremely low.
"Women can be masculine" and it's like. A woman wearing pants, and the women pictured are not even wearing men's pants it's like women's pants which are custom built different from men's pants to emphasizes her curves. Even "boyfriend jeans" are high waisted and all the models advertising them are overtly feminine.
"Women can be masculine" but then it's a woman in a pantsuit made to accentuate her femininity and it looks distinctly different from men's suits. And she's still almost always with long hair and/or makeup and jewelry on.
"Women can be masculine" and it's a woman dressed down in a tshirt and jeans or a hoodie and she's not even trying to be masc but she's got like "no makeup look" makeup on
"Women can be masculine" and the woman in question is almost certainly clean shaven on her whole body without a glance of body hair.
"Women can be masculine" and she's just slightly punk or goth and still has a full face of makeup but maybe a pixie cut and a leather jacket or something.
"Women can be masculine" and the clothes she's wearing that are modeled after men's clothes have the fucking cinched waist and have noticeably softened the silhouette so she's still curvy and identifiably a woman
"Women can be masculine" but any time you go to the damn hairdresser when you ask for a men's haircut they'll give you a pixie cut or some shit. Even when you show them the picture. Because Pixie cut is as masc as you can go, or maybe the notorious side shave.
"Women can be masculine" but almost every example of masculine women's fashion you see pulled up, even when you literally look up "masculine women's fashion," REFUSES to compromise on maintaining a level of feminine beauty standards- which adds florals and delicate fem accessories and long luscious hair and form fitting clothes and full faces of makeup because you NEED TO BE BEAUTIFUL!!! YOU MUST REMAIN BEAUTIFUL YOU MUST BE IDENTIFIABLY WOMAN!!! If you are not still soft and accessible and appealing to cishet men then ??????????
I find if you want to see genuinely overtly masculine presenting women you have to go looking for examples of butches and studs and people who are openly gnc in identity. Because their nonconformity, their masculinity, makes a tangible impact on their lives and experience of self, because being masculine women actually means something to their experience of the world. Because being a masc woman is not treated as completely unnoteworthy and totally acceptable- it is a statement that garners reaction, because society has serious fucking issues with masculine women.
The fact that the threshold for what is considered masculine on women is so low, that they can be dressed in ways that would be seen as overtly effeminate on a cis man, or are totally feminine if not for the mildest masculine or non-traditional gendered signifier, this is exactly a product of how sincerely unacceptable masculine gender nonconformity is on femininely assigned subjects.
The wholesale refusal of femininity and an overt expression of masculinity conflicts so harshly with society's ideas of womanhood, and the ideas of who we feel gets to be masculine, that most people literally cannot even conceive of a genuinely masculine woman without feminizing her in some way. At least, they cannot image such a masculine woman in a positive way.
If she's cis having a level of masculinity similar to cis men's is literally an impossibility, if she's trans and not committing to a feminine (often hyperfeminine) presentation she gets called a man and if she's masc then "whats the point in being trans then" because being masc and being a woman is just inconceivable. Wanting both is seen as a contradiction, as impossible.
And you know what? That femininity imposed onto these sort of masc women- it's forgiving.
That femininity is the thing that keeps her marked as a woman, not some gender ambiguous thing. It is forgiving as she is still containing something that which makes her valuable as a woman. Femininity: Beauty, desirability, softness, etc. She retains a noticeable difference to delineate her from the presentation of men, even when wearing something masculinely inspired- she must be identifiably different. Identifiably woman. Put her in that suit but make sure she is slender and non-imposing and perfectly coifed.
You see it in the way people talk about treading traditionally masculine associated things as a woman. As much as there is positive intent in the affirmations you often see of "you can still do (traditionally masculine thing) and be feminine!!" lying beneath this reassurance is an anxiety. Of being unfeminine, of actually being interpreted as overtly masculine.
Looking up masculine women's fashion I very quickly encountered two separate posts containing statements of "you can still be feminine while dressing masculine." There is this unsaid rule simmering everywhere that being genuinely perceived as a masculine woman is not a good thing. It's not "it's okay to be masculine" its honestly never that. It's "you're still feminine if you like/do/wear masculine things." Because being feminine means being a woman. It is saying "you're not less of a woman." It's why it's so important to perform feminine signifiers to balance out even vaguely masculine traits. Reassure, reassert, your womanhood.
"You can still be a feminine woman and do masculine things" can very much bleed into gender expectations of women's performance of femininity even when vocalized through a well intentioned, feminist lens. Because femininity and womanhood get so wrapped up together, that when uplifting femininity and feminine women in the face of misogyny, it can carry a veiled, unspoken rejection of gender nonconformity.
It is still internalized that masculinity on women is derogatory, and so the masculine realms women wish to traverse must first be altered, must have feminine allowance created, in order for women to have a space to participate. It empowers femininity, but it also requires it. Some may be familiar with how sometimes your capacity for femininity is not just being reassured, but insisted upon you.
Rejecting femininity then is rejecting womanhood itself. Unacceptable within patriarchal society, and yet sometimes even unacceptable within what would otherwise be feminist spaces. You see this historically in feminist movements, a rejection of gender nonconformity, ironically echoing patriarchy's rules on gender performance.
Refusing being palatably feminine is refusing forgiveness for your masculinity.
Masculinity on women represents ugliness, unwantedness, disgust, being loud and intrusive (not submissive and servile and quiet), they're unhygienic, aggressive, ill-mannered/unpolite (untamed), they are unworthy and worthless to a patriarchal society.
"Woman can be masculine" but the acceptably masculine woman you imagine is not hairy, not broad, not muscular, not fat (in a non slim-thicc way), not physically imposing, not with a deep voice, not speaking gruffly or with monotone. Maybe her voice is raspy and that's okay because it's sexy and you can forget that if she doesn't perform an overly friendly demeanor she's gonna get called a bitch. The specter of that acceptable masculine woman still retains delicate facial features and plucked/shaped eyebrows and clear skin and a slender body and she's beautiful oh yes she's still attractive.
In fact, she's hot. Her masculine gestures in her appearance are not neutral they are a sexual curiosity, never spoiling the fact she is still such a beautiful woman in all the ways that matter. Masculinity is acceptable on women, yes of course, you're so right. Because people want to fuck a tomboy whose masculinity is a non-threatening exterior you can remove to explore and conquer the feminine desirability beneath.
"Women can be masculine" just as long as you're acceptably feminine enough to have sex with. Or else you're treated like a hideous troll that gets no right to human dignity and is the punchline of jokes- and oh the horror and revulsion of it all.
It's part of why trans women are seen as unable to be "real" women to transphobes, because they're stained by the masculinity projected onto them, which conflicts with what a woman is expected to be. Many caricatures focus on the clashing of masculine traits with feminine attire because to be a masculine woman is like an oxymoron, it is an absurdity. Masculinity on women is degraded and disgusting and a trans woman is assumed to be automatically and inherently masculine. It's not just that theyre seen as men demeaning themselves to be feminine and to be women, but they're rejected under the pretense that because they must be masculine they would make terrible women. No one wants a masculine woman.
It's why it's so horrifying and disgusting the prospect of those gullible insane women and girls mutilating their bodies to try and become men 😟 because they're eviscerating their entire worth to society as women by rejecting femininity and destroying their fertility and becoming completely garbage as sexual objects and reproduction labor !!! I don't even want to fuck them !!! We have to detrans them lickity split on the double to repossess as a society !!! If not then they are a nonentity to be crushed under the boot of society with no regard! No one wants a masculine woman!
"Women can be masculi-" I am STRIKING YOU WITH 10000000 LASER BEAMS ‼️‼️‼️ I AM BLOWING YOU UP WITH 70000 MILLION ATOM BOMBS ‼️‼️LISTEN TO LITERALLY ANY BUTCHES
ALSO.
Even those women with the pixie cuts and the leather jackets? People are assholes to them too actually
I mean literally even Princess Peach can't wear pants without some dudebro getting in your ear bitching about how the woke mob is making her too masculine
Literally get real !!!!