i'm really intrigued by the fact that you chose kylo as an infp. i'm interested in learning more about unhealthy xnfp types because that's my own type and i have been typed as unhealthy as well. Do you know where I can learn more about unhealthy xnfp types? Or possibly other unhealthy types as well?
I’ll try to explain why I picked Kylo Ren as an INFP as best I can to give you some insight into why exactly made that decision, then I’ll discuss an unhealthy INFP afterwards, and link you to some sources of information on unhealthy types. I know you haven’t directly asked my why I chose Kylo Ren as an INFP, but I feel the need to explain myself since I’ve already witnessed people questioning my decision, so I may as well get it out of the way. Hopefully you don’t mind my word vomit.
To understand unhealthy MBTI you have to understand what makes any given type ‘unhealthy’. What that is, exactly, is when your four cognitive functions aren’t balanced. So in terms of an INFP’s prominent functions, we’re looking at (Fi-Ne) -Si-Te. Si and Te are Tertiary and Inferior functions, which means that most of the time they’re not exactly at the forefront of an INFP’s thinking process, usually they are last priority or merely affect the dominant and auxiliary functions in some way. It can be considered unhealthy if one of these functions begins to take priority over the dominant and auxiliary functions. An easy way to conceptualize this is to imagine a car with four people. You have the driver (dominant function) and the co-pilot (auxiliary function) at the front, kind of helping each other out but the driver still does most of the work. Then in the backseat you have the guy who engages in discussion with the two up the front sometimes but he’s still in the backseat (tertiary function) and that guy who keeps mostly to himself and only says something when he suddenly wants to be a backseat driver or the actual driver specifically asks for his help (inferior function). You have to have these four people in the car at all times to make sure the trip goes smoothly, but the moment you start moving those people around, giving people roles they shouldn’t be in, is when you start making it a dangerous journey for all involved = unhealthy MBTI. I’ll talk about that later, first:
WHY I THINK KYLO REN IS AN INFP
DOMINANT-AUXILIARY FUNCTIONS
Fi - introverted Feeling
Fi dominance makes INFPs highly in-tune with the subjective aspects of reality (personal values, emotions, ethics, the human psyche) which makes them somewhat disinterested in pure objectivity. This means that INFPs have trouble looking at situations objectively/in a manner that removes all emotion, values, and nuance from the decision-making process. (x)
Now what does this have to do with Kylo Ren? Well, first to point out why he is a Fi-dom - Kylo Ren has his own set of values, and doesn’t seem to care about other people’s values if they don’t agree with his own. He doesn’t let them affect his decision-making. Fi-doms often believe their values are inherently right, and a lot of their decision-making stems from exactly that, rather than what someone else has told them what is right/what they should do. This could be confused in Kylo Ren’s case with people thinking he is doing what Snoke tells him to do, but he is only doing those things BECAUSE he personally believes in them. He has been conditioned to change his values to align with Snoke’s, therefore he sees no problem in doing whatever Snoke tells him to do - and why doing things against that belief system (darkness > light) is so hard for him to grasp - because you can tell (along with being told by Adam Driver) that he intrinsically believes he is right.
There would have to be some significant event that shakes Kylo Ren’s inner beliefs (such as perhaps realizing what he had been conditioned to believe about killing his father as the ‘right thing’ to do, suddenly becoming the ‘wrong thing’ as he canonically falls to his knees in regret) to cause him to start a misalignment between them and Snoke’s and to begin the questioning, doubting, self-reflecting process that had otherwise been a 100% commitment from a Fi-dom’s point of view. If this occurs, an INFP will take it very seriously and it will be hard to process, as to them it can feel like figuratively speaking, their whole world (belief system) has been ripped out from under them. As an unhealthy INFP, this “I’m doing it because it’s the right thing to do (according to my own beliefs, not your wrong ones)” way of thinking can make them seem obnoxiously self-righteous. But more on that later.
Ne - extroverted iNtuition
Ne users are naturally attuned to concepts and possibilities as their main way of taking in information; they’re not interested in knowing the facts and instead prefer to look at how they are connected, what their underlying principles and ideas are. They themselves are “great at generating ideas, but not so much at following through on their execution.” (x)
This usually leads to Ne users being less inclined to plan things - or if they do plan something, they’re more inclined to ditch it later on or get distracted. They’re interested in the ‘bigger picture’ or the ‘end goal’ not the minute details or the routine steps it takes to get there. This basically means they like to improvise - but this can also lead to confusion or being distracted. Isabel and Peter Briggs Myers describes this as Ne users being “wholly directed upon objects, searching for emerging possibilities” and that they will “sacrifice all else for such possibilities when found” (Gifts Differing Understanding Personality Type, 88). This can be seen when Kylo Ren gets distracted from the plan to capture the droid, changing the plan to instead merely capture Rey or when he offers to teach Rey despite it going against Snoke’s plans; both times Kylo Ren was distracted by the new possibilties that Rey offered, despite going against the given plan. He also struggles to stay on course in terms of what he needs to do and his belief that he needs to quench his light side. Overall, his short-sightedness (I don’t mean that negatively, but more in a sense of being preoccupied with the HERE AND NOW rather than the LATER), abundance of confusion and inability to stick to a predetermined course is a telling sign of an xNP. Ni-dom’s, on the other hand, are incredibly future-sighted and always think of the consequences and possibilities in future while simultaneously finding it important and necessary to formulate a plan and stick to it (Obi-Wan is a classic example of a Ni-dom in Star Wars, as is Palpatine).
TERTIARY-INFERIOR FUNCTIONS
(Keep in mind that these functions are not meant to be at the forefront of an INFPs processes and usually are used in last-moment measures or merely just affect or amplify a dominant function, so not all INFPs may display or develop these on the same level)
Si - introverted Sensing
Si is the FiNe’s third function, and it gives a sense of solidity to their Fi beliefs. Si also makes the Fi-led internal world structured and detailed. When it comes to values that they have had adequate time to develop, they tend to have a solid sense of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. A lot of their perception in these cases is based on their personal experiences. This is because Si places a high value on real world experiences and its impressions of them. FiNe’s store all the interesting experiences and information they gather in their mind in an organized way for future reference. (x)
So this basically just solidifies Kylo Ren’s beliefs about him being ‘right’ and makes it that much harder for him to consider anyone else’s point of view against his own. In an INFP’s perspective, their beliefs are constructed on past experiences, so if someone comes along and tries to tell them they’re wrong, they’ll think, “well, that’s not how it happened before” or “not according to my past experience”. Their past experience will usually take precedence as ‘evidence’ over anything anyone else tells them. The Si element in an INFP can lead to them holding intense grudges, clinging to these ‘past experiences’ too closely in order to judge the world around them, even if they don’t realize it. If someone hurts them or breaks their trust, an INFP might try to forgive them, but they will never forget what they experienced before, and will more than likely fear it will happen again. All of this comes in to play during the scene between Han Solo and Kylo Ren on the bridge, and could explain why Han Solo was unable to persuade Kylo Ren, merely on the basis of “we do miss you” or the idea that things might be different, because, in Kylo Ren’s experience, it doesn’t add up. What he experienced in the past takes too much precedence over anything Han Solo is saying. He might consider what his father is saying, reflect on it in his head, and realize that he would prefer to trust the reality of whatever Snoke has told him over the things his father is saying, that, in his mind, don’t align with what he previously experienced. Of course, that is just my personal interpretation of the scene anyway.
Equally, as Si might cause an INFP to hold a grudge, it can also, in the same line of thinking, make them incredibly sentimental about things or objects that have played a part in their past. This can be seen when Kylo Ren speaks to Vader’s mask, his reaction to Anakin’s lightsaber, or the deleted scene of him on the Millennium Falcon. Another interesting effect Si tends to have in an INFP is that it can lead to INFPs having values and beliefs that aren’t considered “traditional” by most people. This is again, because their beliefs are based on subjective matter and experience, not the objective, collective belief of what may be ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. Kylo Ren’s deep-set belief in the dark side is by no means “traditional” thinking, because he doesn’t care about the collective opinion or thought, but about what he personally has gone through or is going through.
Te - extroverted Thinking
Te is a process that allows FiNe’s to take in information from the real world, make quick decisions on what the most effective solution is, and put that solution into play right away. This is the weakest, achilles’ heel part of the FiNe. Although it would be exhausting and unhealthy for them to rely on this aspect of themselves all the time, they can pull out their troubleshooting skills when necessary to get a job done effectively.(x)
Te is usually described as making quick and efficient decisions based on objective fact. In a Fi-dom, this ‘objective fact’ becomes a ‘gut feeling’ from which they base their quick decisions from. However, they’ll only do this if they are forced to, as a last measure, since Fi-doms would much prefer to be able to take their time before making a decision, and being consistently forced to make quick decisions with no time allowed for thinking can result in unhealthy behaviour. Te in a Fi-dom can also be what they resort to when they are suffering an intense struggle about a decision, in the end just saying “fuck it” and going with their gut instinct, even if they can’t articulate a solid reason for making that decision at the time. The most common and comfortable use of Te in a Fi-dom, however, is to critique and offer improvements to existing systems, structures or plans based on what they believe to be more effective. In terms of Kylo Ren, I believe we’ve seen him making this ‘gut instinct’ decision whenever he is forced to make a decision regarding Rey without being given the time he needs to figure out what he should be doing (according to his belief system), explaining all these weird decisions he seems to make in regards to what the most effective way of dealing with an enemy would be versus what he feels like doing at that moment in time for which he can’t really offer a good explanation. I suppose you could also see this function when he criticizes Hux’s indoctrination methods and offers what he sees as the more effective option: clones.
AN UNHEALTHY INFP
Being unhealthy in MBTI means that you use your functions in a way that’s detrimental to yourself or others.They could be in a loop (reliance on their dominant or tertiary functions and ignoring their auxiliary), a grip (reliance on their inferior function), or just generally using their functions in unhealthy ways. (x)
Now, I’m going to admit I haven’t done a lot of reading on unhealthy MBTI yet, so I’m going to derive a lot of information from this post by highonmbti for now, and only the manifestations that I see in Kylo Ren. I definitely suggest checking out the post and highonmbti in general if you’re interested in reading more about unhealthy MBTI.
Unhealthy use of Fi
The unhealthy use of Fi means they’ve reached some extreme point of the function over all their other functions, resulting in unbalanced behaviour.
One of these behaviours can be seen as excessive stubbornness and self-righteousness towards their own sense of right and wrong, making it very hard for them to consider how their actions might affect others, or acknowledge other people’s values and perspectives. They may also treat those who don’t align with their belief system in a condescending manner, as though they are blind to the real ‘truth’ that is the belief system that the INFP has constructed. This, of course, is self-explanatory when it comes to Kylo Ren. He clearly has no sense of how his actions might affect anyone but himself, nor does he seem to care about any moral code that doesn’t align with his own.
An unhealthy dominance of Fi can also manifest in INFPs being obsessed with seeming ‘different’ or ‘misunderstood’ as they become hyper aware of the difference in their personal values and perspectives versus the rest of the world. Unhealthy INFPs might also take their preference for subjective, values based decision-making to the extreme, refusing to rationalize or explain their decisions at all, and as highonmbti puts it, defaulting to “it’s just what I believe ok?!” without presenting any evidence. I don’t believe there’s any definitive evidence of either of these for Kylo Ren, but one could infer either of these possibilities.
Unhealthy use of Ne
Healthy aux Ne is what allows INFPs to think outside the box, consider the “what ifs” of things - but an extreme over dominance of Ne can instead result in too much ‘thinking outside the box’ or a detachment from practical reality. This is where the stereotypical ‘dreamer’ INFP comes in, but in an unhealthy INFP this can result in too much dreaming to the point where they get lost in it and lose their grip on reality. This could very much relate to Kylo Ren’s delusional outlook and the fact he is so caught up in trying to act out this fantasy of being Darth Vader.
Fi-Si loop
A Fi-Si loop occurs when the INFP begins to ignore the external world in favor of their subjective perception of it. When this happens they skip over Ne entirely to judge based on subjective values and perceive primarily based on their subjective perceptions of cues from the tangible world. An INFP loop would likely experience extreme withdrawal from the external world, fear of trying new things, hyperawareness of bodily sensations (pain, hunger, thirst, etc.), being stuck in a rut/routine, and hypersensitivity and emotional reasoning. (x)
Basically, a loop is when you overuse your tertiary function (in this case an INFP’s Si) over the auxiliary function (Ne), resulting in a Fi-Si function instead of Fi-Ne. Outwardly this manifests as an extrovert who is unhealthily extroverted or an introvert who is unhealthily introverted. You can read more on loops here.
I believe Kylo Ren is most likely an INFP with a Fi-Si loop, or alternatively with a Te grip. To me, he seems an unhealthily introverted introvert, and displays much of the behaviour listed as common with an INFP with a Fi-Si loop. He has withdrawn from the external world to such an extent he doesn’t even reveal himself to it. We can’t know for sure if he suffers hyperawareness to bodily sensations, but the importance of feeling pain and having that pain tied to one’s power in the dark side might relate to that. His hypersensitivity can be seen in his adverse overreactions to things, in particularly his tantrums (which I believe are hypersensitive reactions to the feeling of failure) and his struggle with emotional reasoning.
Te grip
An INFP in a Te grip disregards their dominant Fi in favor of the cold, hard logic of Te. This is likely to happen if they’ve suffered some kind of significant emotional turmoil, and particularly if that turmoil involved a prolonged disregard of the INFPs personal space, values, emotions, or identity. An INFP grip would likely experience: rejection of the complexities of personal values and emotions in favor of cold, hard logic; harsh, aggressive outbursts of negative emotion; excessive criticism of themselves and others; adherence to rigid standards and schedules; black and white thinking; refusal to confront and deal with negative emotions.(x)
Compared to a loop, a grip is in fact just the outright replacement of the dominant function (Fi) with the inferior function (Te). In an INFP’s case, this would mean the extreme refusal of the INFP’s central manner of being surrounding subjective emotions and feelings in favour of hard logic. It’s an INFP going against everything that would otherwise make them tick, rejecting themselves in the most extreme way possible.
Now, while some of these manifestations scream Kylo Ren, others are more questionable, which is why I consider a Fi-Si loop to be more likely than a Te grip. The extreme rejection of emotional thinking may seem fitting to Kylo Ren under some conditions, such as his attempts to emulate this ‘cold-hearted, logical killer’ that is the image of Darth Vader - and the way he is trying to enforce and ignore his true functions thus resulting in his aggressive outbursts of negative emotions. An INFP with a Te grip is the epitome of someone with a lot of emotions trying to bottle up all of those emotions and rejecting them, only to explode at any given point in time.
CONCLUSION
While I have spent many hours trying to figure out what Kylo Ren’s typing could be, I could still be wrong. The truth is, we haven’t seen enough of him yet to be fully sure of anything, so many of these assessments are based upon assumptions, because we just haven’t been given enough information otherwise. But, in my opinion and through my process of thorough elimination, this is the most logical fit I could find at the moment.
I will admit that I am also under the assumption that Kylo Ren will be getting redeemed, and that we will see crucial developments in the way his personality might not necessarily ‘change’ exactly, but in this case, become more healthy by the end of the trilogy. So, even as hard as I might try to remain unbiased, I do feel the need to put that out there out of fairness of letting anyone who reads this know where I stand amongst all this discourse.
Also, I know that MBTI isn’t a scientifically-proven method of analysis, but I do find it to be an incredibly useful tool when trying to understand and unpack fictional characters, or even people, and figuring out how exactly a character might think, feel, or react to any given situation and why. But hey, that’s probably just my INTP self trying find patterns in everything.
And finally, to the poor asker who didn’t actually ask for any of this at all, and who I’ve basically just word vomited all over, I’m so sorry I just can’t help myself sometimes. In answer to the question you DID actually ask, here are some interesting sources that I’ve found so far on unhealthy MBTI, keeping in mind that I, too, am still trying to find more sources on the subject:
highonmbti’s discussions on unhealthy mbti
funkymbtifiction’s discussions on unhealthy mbti
mbti-notes’ discussions on unhealthy mbti
Healthy and unhealthy cognitive functions by Erik Thor
When going through these, as an INFP, you want to specifically be paying attention to unhealthy Fi, unhealthy Ne, Fi-Si loops and Te grips as they directly relate to your type.
I haven’t found any good books that talk about unhealthy MBTI yet (the ones I have read haven’t really touched on unhealthy MBTI either), but two books I’m looking to get that may interest you (if you have the money) are:
In the Grip: Understanding Type, Stress, and the Inferior Function by Naomi L. Quenk
Was That Really Me?: How Everyday Stress Brings Out Our Hidden Personality by Naomi L. Quenk
But I will stress that I have not read these books yet, so I can’t vouch for them having useful information pertaining to unhealthy MBTI.
