#rose general

[bonesandthebees]

If Phil became consil at the start of Sam's reign then I think the timelines line up to make Wilbur a baby or not born quite yet when that happens. Which just has me imagining a scenario like this:

Phil: *holding Wilbur while having a minor rant in the privacy of his office about something Sam suggested that he disagrees with*

Wilbur: *baby noises*

Phil: I know!

Of course, Phil would have to quickly stop venting and plotting within his son's earshot because little kids unfortunately have a bad habit of innocently exposing their parents' secrets. However, while he's still young enough to not repeat his dad's words, baby Willum can hang out in Phil's office whenever he's not busy. Just stop trying to get your hands on his papers or consil pendant, those don't belong in your mouth, mate.

honestly I haven't decided whether wilbur is phil's biological son or if he adopted him when he was a few years old, it doesn't make any difference within the context of the story because the consil is not a position that technically needs to be blood inherited it's just alternating ideas I've been toying around with

I will say though that mental image is hilarious. I love imagining little baby wilbur trying to chew on phil's royal pendant and phil just having to repeatedly take it out of his mouth while he's advising sam on taxes or something lmao

[bonesandthebees]

All throughout today, I've been thinking about the fact Rose is tagged with major character death as well as that dreaded 'execution' tag. I would say Wilbur and Phil as POV characters, plus Tommy, are the main characters whose deaths would count as mcd. And now that we've gotten to the events of the ball, I feel like the picture of why those tags are there has been painted. Though to us, it's blurry and far away.

Tommy will get caught up as a result of his involvement that night, I am sure of that. Most likely has someone like Wilbur trying to defend him or otherwise take the heat off him. Maybe someone tries using his involvement to ruin his chances in the heir competition. I could also see a scene where Phil tells Wilbur to cut his losses (aka turn his back on an imprisoned Tommy) but I'm not sure how that could come about because surely if Tommy is suspected, the next logical step would be to question and/or suspect Wilbur as well.

With sandduo themselves though, it's interesting how that could affect their ending. If Wilbur is the one who gets tried and executed, Phil may have to endure talk about how far his son has fallen and people wondering why someone with ears everywhere seemingly never noticed what his own son was up to or how bent on revenge he was. If Phil is tried and executed, Wilbur knows he'll have to endure similar derogatory whispers regarding his father's character and people wondering whether the young man who was raised to be like Phil will go down the same slippery path. And if they both end up at the gallows, it will be said Phil went too far, wielded his influence too irresponsibly, and dragged his son down with him by corrupting him. I have no doubt that whatever happens to them by the end, they will try to save the other because they can't lose their dad/son to this. Survival will no doubt be paired with fleeing with a ruined reputation, either voluntarily or due to banishment etc.

Niki could possibly be framed but I don't have many thoughts on that other than 'it could be pointed out she had the motive' with the assumption she got someone else to do her dirty work. Also something something lesson about cutting your losses/reluctantly betraying your friends from Phil again.

I know you can't say anything about the validity of these theories/thoughts but I thought I'd put them out there now and see whether they had any merit by the time we reach the end.

you're right I can't say anything to any of this but it's very very fun for me to read and look at with big ol eyes... though I would argue more than just phil, wilbur, and tommy count as major characters in this fic. in my head the characters I count as 'major' would be wilbur, tommy, phil, niki, and quackity since they are all the 'main players' so to speak and each have the most 'plot relevant' relationships to wilbur, our protagonist. don't know if 'plot relevant' is the phrase I want to use but I just mean like the plot is centered around those relationships if that makes sense

anyway just things to keep in mind :) ty for the theories theyre very fun to read

[bonesandthebees]

ch 5 is so good in showing crimeboys' opinions of each other through how that changes in this chapter

wilbur judges tommy with the standards he and niki with q, the throne candidates, were held up too and its frustrating to him that tommy can act more childish and still be considered at the heir

and its not that wilbur doesnt know, that tommy is unaware of the reason of his stay in pandorinne, to me it seems like hes almost looking for a reason to be critical of tommy (not that tommy makes that hard) bc niki (and he) and even quackity have been working hard to be good candidates for the throne and now tommy gets to just join in

also tommy insulting wilbur and phil forcing wil to spend more time with him isnt helping that

what wilbur fails to realise, that while tommy is still royalty, the manners standards arent the only different thing about tommys upbringing

as could be seen at the market, but even before, with tubbo, jack and even puffy, tommy is much less detached from servants and other people in the kingdom, where the people in the castle, while not necessarily evil, are very secluded in the castle and detached from the common people, even tho many make important decisions about their lives

and we get to see tommy disprove this prejudice in wilbur

and wilbur also learns that tommy isnt completely stupid in terms of strategy

now what is more interesting to me is how tommy sees wilbur

taking it from the start, while tommy recognises that wilbur doesnt like him all too much, for tommy hes the first new person he talks with in a less formal setting, wilbur doesnt scold him for cursing and generally they managed to have a chill pretty casual conversation before wilbur got pissy about tommy insulting him

and even after that wilbur will slip into banter with tommy (I love their urge to keep insulting each other lol), tommy doesnt know wilbur is kinda being forced to hang out with him on all the occasions they do so he quickly becomes a familiar person

theres never any punishment for what he says to wilbur, apart from wilbur himself and even niki encourages his making fun of wilbur

also I dont think tommy really realises the status imbalance between them

they did have the talk about wilbur not official having any status, but tommy doesnt see himself as anything more than wilbur

so to tommy wilbur is a stuck up guy who acts like the adults in criticising basically everything tommy does, but also he will go and insult tommy back and he keeps spending time with him (unknowingly to tommy very unwillingly) so I dont think tommy actually hates wilbur, he just enjoys making fun of him and knows he can afford it

as someone who spends a lot of time with boys rose!tommys age (scouting, also its not like im that much older) i adore how accurately he acts

any touristic tips if I want to visit pandorinne?

I love the city so much, the canals system sounds super sick and I absolutely adore markets they just have such a cool atmosphere

yeah the thing is wilbur understands that it's not exactly tommy's fault he's acting the way he is, because he isn't even aware of the position he's in. but it's still frustrating to witness. it's frustrating to listen to sam and phil both consider tommy a viable heir when tommy isn't even trying to get their approval, unlike what quackity and niki have gone through their entire childhoods.

but yes what's more interesting is the difference in upbringing between the pandorinne trio (quackity niki wilbur) and tommy. although valbroek is a fairly wealthy city and tommy still lived a very lavish noble lifestyle, he had a lot more freedom there than he has in pandorinne. he was able to go out on his own and interact with the people of his city. he's seen their struggles firsthand. his people aren't just theoreticals to him, they all have faces. which contrasts with quackity, niki, and wilbur who were rarely allowed to leave the palace without armed escorts growing up. and along with that, while tommy goofs off, he's not completely stupid when it comes to strategy. he's just untrained.

meanwhile, yes, tommy can definitely recognize that wilbur doesn't like him all that much but he thinks it's more of a game than it actually is. he thinks that the bickering is something they both enjoy. while he obviously knows his relationship with wilbur is nothing like his relationship with tubbo, there's the familiarity of a friendship where the two of you just insult each other all the time and pretend you can't stand each other when you're actually close. and the fact that wilbur keeps playing into the bickering, and there's never any punishment for what he says to wilbur like you pointed out, only affirms this belief.

not only does tommy not see himself as better than wilbur, he actually looks up to wilbur. it's not obvious and he's not even that aware of it himself, but wilbur is the son of the Consil. he's older than tommy and seems to know so much about what's going on in the palace, but he's less intimidating than niki and quackity since they're the potential heirs. tommy would rather die than admit it, but yknow when you have a 12-13 year old who interacts with a 17-18 year old and they think the older teen is so cool? yeah, that's tommy with wilbur.

lol I'm glad tommy is an accurate 13 year old boy. I did no research for how to write 13 year old boys I'm just going off of how tommy acted in the early days of dsmp along with my own distant memories of being in middle school

I'm glad you like the city!! Hmm tourist tips for Pandorinne... well the Lavender Market is one of the best parts of the city, as Wilbur told Tommy in that chapter. Canals are mainly used for the transport of goods and supplies, but later in the evenings you might find a man with a small boat willing to give you a scenic ride, if you have the right coin of course. There's also a few temples dedicated to the different gods littered throughout the city, which are always worth visiting to get a blessing or two. And make sure to go down to the docks directly to get fish so fresh it's practically still blinking! Of course, you can't miss the cookshops. If you bring your own meat or fish, they'll cook it up for you for a fraction of the cost you'd pay if you didn't provide they ingredients. They can even bake it in some pastry dough for a savory pie if you request it! Wealthier nobles tend to avoid cookshops though, since there's not a lot of heavy regulation on food distribution in the city...

[bonesandthebees]

Also, while I’m here, I might as well scream about Rose!Wilbur because I’, losing my mind about him. He’s such a tragic character. Truly doomed by the narrative. Because no mater what he does, it’s always the wrong decision. He loses no matter what he does. He takes the smallest step in any direction and he immediately loses ground on every other relationship he has.

He lies to Niki because his father asks him to and it almost immediately strains their relationship. He keeps his meeting with Quackity a secret, he gains ground there, but Niki has also been invited and now knows he did not tell her about it. He lost trust again. And Phil also somehow found out and now he’s getting all the disappointment (not to mention the paranoia I’m sure he’s going to develop because he tried so hard but he literally can’t hide anything from his father).

And he’s always doomed to pick between his best friend, the man he loves and his future little brother who will give him unlimited power if he plays his cards right. There is no winning. No matter what he chooses, he loses two people. He can play the game, but he can never win because the entire thing is rigged so he can never have what he truly wants. He can never have it all. He can’t have his father’s approval and have Niki on the throne and stay friends with Quackity. He can’t win and I’m already losing my mind about it.

-🎄

oh you haven't even gotten to the proper tragedy part of rose!wilbur's character yet... there's actually so many tragic characters in rose it's going to be a time

there really is nothing wilbur can do right in this situation, but at the same time isn't that how it works? in politics like these, there is no right decision. no matter which direction you go, someone else is going to get hurt. these games hurt everyone involved because that's what a lust for power does. it hurts everyone who reaches for it.

this isn't a spoiler because like you said it's already designed into the narrative. wilbur isn't going to get a perfect win in this. he can't have everything. no matter what, he's going to lose a relationship with someone, if not more than one person. the game was rigged against him from the start

[bonesandthebees]

for now my mcd guesses are wilbur for ch4 and niki for ch5 (im completely ignoring logic here, just vibes) and ill be back with more bc holy shit is there a LOT, I mean the strategy exercise alone has so so much i cant get it out if my head (not that i want to)

lmao these are so fun to see

[bonesandthebees]

BEE QUICK IS ROSE! SAM'S HAIR GREEN OR BROWN I CANNOT REMEMBER

LMAO SORRY I REPLIED LATE it's okay though because my answer was gonna be "whatever is in your heart" which is code for "I haven't decided what color his hair is yet it keeps flipping in my head"

[bonesandthebees]

Rose question- what do you imagine Sam’s hairstyle to be? I couldn’t find any example of it in the chapters.

Most noble men in Pandorinne wear their hair longish, most commonly somewhere between having it down to their chin and down to their shoulders. the most common hairstyle with this is to leave their hair in a half up half down kind of 'do with braids, or to just have it mostly down with small braids littered throughout. although this is the most common kind of hair length/style for men in the court, some men choose to wear their hair longer like Techno, or more rarely men choose to wear it shorter like Wilbur

I don't think I could find a good reference pic but in my head Sam's hair goes down to just a bit above his shoulders. for the most part he doesn't actually wear any braids in it and just leaves it completely loose, and then either wears his crown or a jeweled headband across his forehead over it. for more formal occasions though he will have a half up kind of thing going on with thin braids pinned around the back of his head while the rest is still loose

[bonesandthebees]

trick or treat !!! do u have worldbuilding (of any kind?)

of any kind?? uhhh here's some notes on the advising council for the king in under the hanging rose. you'll see these pop up a bit in ch 2 :)