#sammy flaws

[sunflowerchester]

Visit Original Link

To anon! - Cole Trenton and my complicated feelings for him. 

[sunflowerchester]

You really think Sam is perfect?

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sunflowerchester]

What do you have to say about Sam and Adam and the way Sam spoke to Adam? He was rather annoying, acting like John, speaking to him about the job as if he didn't run away from it. I was rather disappointed, actually. I expected DEAN to act like that, not Sam. Made me pissed. I kind of like to ignore those Sam moments. What do you think about Sam/Adam interactions?

Well firstly I try never to ignore times Sam does something I don’t like. I think it’s important to evaluate those moments and understand why I don’t like them, and then understand why Sam might have reacted that way. 

Secondly, honestly Sam’s interactions with Adam didn’t upset me at all. I thought he was really kind of great with Adam. And it wasn’t like John ultimately, not in my opinion. Not just because Dean says that’s what he thought of Sam’s interactions with Adam. Dean reacted classically Dean, wanting to “protect” Adam by way of keeping the truth from him while Sam wanted to be very honest about the life Adam was about to be —or had already been— thrown into so he’d have all the info/training he needed to survive it. I think Dean’s approach was very much in character, and Sam’s reaction —being pretty pragmatic and practical for the situation they found themselves in— was perfectly in character, too.

I don’t blame Dean for wanting to allow Adam to stay in the dark about the crazy shit John and the two of them had to deal with.  I understand his train of thought. It’s how he was taught to protect Sam when Sam was small. But by doing that he takes Adam’s choice of how to deal with that situation away. Sam is right, keeping the truth from Adam just wasn’t practical at that juncture. Adam was already in it when the boys met him and he needed to be taught how to defend himself. (In fact, when it came to Adam Dean still aligned more with how John chose to deal with him by wanting to continue to keep the truth from him, like John did. Sam went opposite of that by teaching him and training him.)

Of course, it turns out that was never Adam, Adam had already been killed because he was unaware of things like monsters. But Sam had the right idea. He also went about teaching Adam in a very non-John way, with encouragement and positive reinforcement. He showed pride in Adam when Adam did well, something John never did for Sam or Dean.

Just because he wanted to teach the kid how to survive doesn’t mean he was like John. Dean may have seen it that way, but that doesn’t mean Dean was right. By depriving Adam of the chance to learn, that would have been putting Adam in more danger because as Sam said “He’s a Winchester, he’s already cursed,” and he was right. The kid was already in it, and eventually WAS used as a tool for the apocalypse.

[sunflowerchester]

I MEAN THEY WON't FIND THE GOOD POSTS TALKING ABOUT HOW SAM'S AWESOME BUT AS SOOn AS I POINT OUT SOMETHING I HAVE A HARD TIME WITH LET'S  JUMP ON THIS FLAW POST YEEEEAHHH

no

[sunflowerchester]

Let's not get it twisted. I don't think Sam is perfect in s8. I didn't think it was the best choice to have Martin tale Benny. I don't like that he left Dean cuffed in that hotel room. I don't like that he slept with Amelia after her husband came back. I am not the biggest fan of the fact that he told Dean he would only work with him in the future if he was done with Benny (I'm not a fan of ultimatums in general). But I understand why he did each thing, even if I don't like it or probably would have done things differently. 

I HATE how Dean is in s8. HATE. IT. It grosses me out.

But I won't pretend to feel totally okay with some of the things Sam has done  just because he's my favorite. 

[sunflowerchester]

So, I feel like a lot of Sam!girls really want Dean!girls to admit when Dean does something shitty? So, as a Sam!girl, can you point out a couple of things that Sam has done as shitty? (Idk, I have such a problem doing this because Sam usually has a legit reason behind doing shitty things. Dean just sort of does whatever, like trashing the samulet, calling Sam a monster (twice), killing Amy, tricking Sam into possession, etc.)

I don’t know if Sam has done things that are “as shitty” as Dean, meaning… that he does them with the same motivations? Dean’s hypocrisy and selfishness and his inability to apologize to Sam are what usually drive me the most crazy, and for the most part Sam doesn’t have these same issues often, if at all. When Dean does really awful things that hurt Sam, they usually stem from one of these traits like with Amy, he was a total hypocrite in that situation, plus he lied. Or with the Amelia voicemail in s8, he did that to Sam to serve his own purpose without a thought of how it would affect Sam or Amelia. Then we get non-apologies, or… victim blaming from Dean when he’s confronted with being wrong. So I think when Sam Girls want Dean Girls to acknowledge Dean’s flaws, it’s because Dean himself won’t do it, or at least not to Sam.

On the other hand, Sam generally always owns up to his mistakes and tries to make up for them, and even will go so far as to take on blame that isn’t even his. It’s very uneven in that way, that Sam’s “mistakes” or whatever are thrown around constantly, while Dean’s actual flaws aren’t ever address or apologized for (or a third party comes in and tells Dean that he “did his best” or “was too trusting” or some other SHIT that excuses Dean of any real responsiblity altogether).

So yeah, I think it’s important to discuss Sam’s flaws, but at the same time, there’s a whole lot of ignoring Dean’s flaws while exaggerating Sam’s going on most of the time, and it’s kind of exhausting. I think that’s why it’s hard for Sam Girls to discuss at great lengths what Sam’s flaws are because we feel like we are the only upswing for his character, and we have to constantly push back against the bullshit double standards. It’s not that we don’t think he has flaws or does bad things, we just don’t want to add to the already incredibly uneven slant against Sam in fandom.

All that to say, I do have at least one thing that makes me really upset. I have a really hard time dealing with Sam torturing demons without a thought to the vessels…? Like, in Repo Man, the boys destroy Jeffery physically when they are trying to get to this demon and it’s horrifying. Afterward, they just dump him outside a hospital and never think about him again until he starts acting out. He was utterly destroyed becuase of what they put him through. He had a lot of other issues, yes, but a lot of that was brought on by their interrogation. I’ve never been comfortable that they do this or that Sam is okay with it now. I hate that the vessel isn’t really something that occurs to Sam like it used to. 

[sunflowerchester]

I might be a little late to the party, but I think Sam's worst flaw is that he doesn't think he's good enough and has all this insecurity that he channels by trying to be someone/something he's not. Exame: Dean was going to hell and Sam thought he, in essence, had to become Dean. Just the way I view it though. :)

Hmmm. This is interesting. I definitely think that Sam doesn’t believe he’s good enough in some ways, but I don’t think he was becoming more like Dean in s3 because he felt like he wasn’t good enough to hunt without Dean.

I think Sam understood that together, there was this balance between he and Dean. Dean saw things black and white and was able to make harsh decisions quickly. Sam was always thinking about things more thoroughly, pulling Dean back and questioning things when Dean needed to give it a second thought. In a weird way it was  a checks and balance kind of thing (even though it caused arguments sometimes, haha). This is why it upset Dean when Sam started acting like Dean on the hunts because he depended on Sam to question his (Dean’s) actions on occasion. This was a dynamic both boys understod their place in. 

BUT the closer it got to Dean’s deal being up, I think Sam realized this checks and balance system was about to be gone, and Sam didn’t have the luxury to sit and think like he was able to when Dean was there. He had to start being able to make decisiosn like Dean, to partially take on Dean’s role as well as his own, in order to do the job like they had before. If there was going to be no more Sam and Dean, and if Sam was going to keep working and survive the job, Sam knew he had to be more like Dean. 

You’re right, he’s NOT Dean, but I understand why he started thinking more like Dean since Dean was on his way out. I don’t think it’s because he thought the Sam parts of him weren’t good enough. I think it was just because he felt that up to that point what kept them alive and good at the job was both their personalities and hunting styles working together. 

[sunflowerchester]

I need help. An anon asked me a GREAT question (2 days ago) but I don't think I can answer it properly:

I was curious what you think are Sam and Dean's absolute best and worst qualities, respectively?

Which I ended up answering with a joke... but...

I think this is a really interesting and important question to ask yourself about your favorite characters, but this is what happened when I did and discussed it with one of my best friends and my husband:

With Sam, I am a little overwhelmed. I honestly don't know which of his qualities is his best because I believe he has so many, but I could probably narrow it down eventually. What's really giving me a hard time is picking out his worst flaw. This question has given me so much trouble and I've even asked my husband and one of my best friends to help me with it, and none of us can come up with a good answer.I know he is flawed. I KNOW he is. But we can't really put our finger on what they are??

I am not an idiot. I know Sam isn't perfect. He's stubborn, and can be snarky, and pushy sometimes, and maybe.... snobby? But all of these seem really petty? HELP ME ANALYZE SAM'S FLAWS PLEASE.

Which one is his worst?