All the ideas im thinking for this Werepapas episode has me feral...
I still believe that felix should be able to sense an amok on cat noir.
Though you can't see it, I'm sure he would still be able to sense it wouldn't he??? Like in ephemeral, hawkmoth was still using the ring (rubbing it to control adrien) even though you couldn't see it on the surface of his finger.
In this werepapas episode, I have a feeling it's going to be custody battle episode LOL or at least the grandparents wanting the twin rings back.
Based on the screenshot of the grandma akumatized, I'm sure adrien loses his rings temporarily. So if cat noir joins the fight, felix/argos obviously wouldn't sense an amok on cat noir since he just lost his rings. But wouldn't it be cool if later, argos and cat noir meet up again, let's say rooftop or something, and because cat noir/adrien has his rings back, this time argos would sense that. Then he puts two and two together ("hmm after returning the rings the adrien...NOW I sense an amok on cat noir???")
Then I can see felix not telling adrien that he knows his identity. That can also make comedic and cute interactions between them. They both think they don't know each others identity loll (by the way if you've ever watched Danny Phantom- danny's sister jazz finding out but not saying anything at first is like the perfect example!)
Adrien also just needs someone that knows his identify so he has someone to rely on like how marienette has alya. I know Luka knows, but he's so far not that close with adrien to have his back. So I'm still rooting for felix to know (no nino plz lolll).
Regardless, I need felix (and of course amalie/nathalie) to be in this episode. I mean it's supposed to be a FAMILY War, how you not gonna have the whole family?! So I need these boys interacting in both civilian and their superhero forms- just so much potential for stories and drama!
so uhm. did the rings scene in yaksi gozen feel reaaaaaally dangerous to anyone else or was that just me? like. anyone else feeling like they've been warned about something?
look, we've seen the senti-kids with their amoks in bad hands before. i mean, pre season 6 adrien is right there. they're forced to do things against their will and the possibility of them being hurt or killed is in someone else's hands.
we've seen the senti-kids with their amoks in their OWN hands. kagami has had hers at various points (and does currently) and felix has had his as long as we've known him. it means they aren't controlled by someone, but... they're still controlled by threats and possibilities. threats to take the amok items back. the possibility of it breaking regardless (through falling for example, or other accidents). the possibility of simply losing it. the idea that someone could rip it away from them using other means (like chrysalis planned to do with felix's amok)
aaaaand now we've seen it in the hands of someone who only means good. adrien. he's completely clueless even. did you see the face he made when felix stopped panicking? the smile? that was the face of someone who doesn't know they did anything wrong. that was the face of someone who has no idea that they've just forced their cousin into repressing very valid emotions.
the point i'm getting at is that even innocent and well meaning hands can force the will of a senti, with or without meaning to. there's pretty much no one you can trust with your life's object if you're a senti in this world, not even yourself at times. the best you can really do with it is leave it somewhere safe and pray to whatever you believe in. sometimes you can't even trust one of your own kind, even if you disregard all the possibilities outside their control. the idea kind of reflects adrien's life right now if you think about it. he has almost no one to turn to since almost everyone close to him is lying to him, and he can't trust himself either because it isn't as though he knows the truth.
HELLO!!!! guess what im finally doing that post i occasionally mentioned....
i am SICK. and i am TIRED. of people saying the "adrien being a sentimonster" is "lazy" and "last minute" because ITS NOT
and i personally have gone through the show twice jotting down whatever hints ive seen that points towards the fact that this has been planned from the beginning or at least very early in the show.
from what ive seen, the reason its more "in your face" in the later seasons than earlier seasons is because (1) they needed to build the magic system (we didnt even KNOW about the peacock in season one, and we learned how it worked in season 2), (2) they need to get more obvious about it because the demographic is literally for children please dont forget that guys...
also! honestly a good post from @buggachat gets it really well so link to that post here
(me personally, if any three of the sentimonsters was "last minute" it would be kagami, but i could be wrong, feel free to point out whatever hints i missed in the comments/reblogs)
rest of post under the cut!!!!
OKKKK im about to get into the list in a minute i just want to color code them (im very normal) so heres a key
Purple: strong evidence
Orange: suspicious evidence... (could be debunked/is a stretch)
Green: random things in there that i added, not really "hints" persay but things to know
(season and episode title are included so if you want to go back and look at these scenes yourself you can! also im not including images because i can only add up to 30 (on laptop and thats just too much work)
s1 Mr pigeon
Feather hat/being allergic to feathers. Its clear that gabriel likes to use memorabilia to allude to his secret identity with butterflies everywhere, then what about all of the feathers??? Its already quite ironic adrien being allergic to feathers but also gabriel choosing specifically marinettes hat that had a feather on it, he knew it’d be good for the brand.
s1 Volpina
peacock miraculous RIGHT in front of a photo of emilie? come on guys they were setting this stuff up so early
s2 The Collector
“all i have left of her is this book… and you” yeah so wym by that gabriel talking about your son that way… idk might be a stretch
s2 Gorizilla
Another showing of feather imagery in the adrien ad, even if it didnt technically make sense, but they surround adrien, gabriel as always associated specifically adrien with feathers.
s2 Myura (the heroes day - part 2)
nathalie is clearly sick from using the peacock miraculous, you think they weren't setting up anything???
s3 Feast
after adrien witnesses nathalie having a “dizzy spell” due to the peacock, when he's back in his room with plagg he says “my mom used to have dizzy spells, just like nathalie. my father said those weren't serious either”
s3 Chat Blanc
when hawkmoth was akumatizing him he was holding a pretty good fight up against it until he said “obey” and then he had no choice but to fall into the akumatization
s3 Felix
• both amilie and felix are desperate to get the twin rings back
• colt died shortly after emilie went missing (which is why adrien didnt go to the funeral) much like how felix was born shortly after adrien (month(s) apart i assume??)
• "you always do everything your father tells you to do?" felix is covering his bases i think
• felix: (calling out to hawkmoth specifically) “im after a piece of jewelry too, how about we make a little exchange” they were setting up the whole ‘felix wants the peacock miraculous’
• amilie: "now that his father isnt here to stop him from getting into mischief-"
• "adrien stay here!" and he DOESN'T because felix just stole the ring from gabriel, making whatever commands he makes useless
• amilie probably let felix keep the rings not only over his obsession over them but maybe because she knows felix wouldnt abuse it? possibly??
• the way gabriel gets the other ring from his wifes hand so he can still control adrien
s3 Ladybug
• gabriel talking about nathalie not using the peacock miraculous "not at that cost, never at that cost again" and then it PANS TO THE FAMILY PHOTO OF EMILIE GABRIEL AND ADRIEN
• in this episode we are shown that sentimonsters can look VERY human, or be just like them! "so perfect theres nothing monstrous about her at all" (also an added thing about chat noir calling her “perfect” which is adrien’s whole thing, that he is the image of perfection :3)
• also we are shown that sentimonster can listen to commands that are non direct (shown to be used on adrien in season 5)
• when sentibug was given her amok, she can make her own choices
• sentimonsters can be killed by either breaking their amok or using the peacock miraculous (this is important for later)
• "turn into regular kids, so fragile, so easy to break" gabriel... what the freak… anyway he could also be referencing physical objects…. Like the RINGS!!
• miraculous ladybugs cant bring back a sentimonster even if you want them to :((
Shanghai special
• "what i started 15 years ago i will finish tomorrow" gabriel planned to become hawkmoth and make the wish when adrien was born (or created) (now i believe adrien is 14 in the show but gabriel may be counting the 9 months adrien was in emilies womb)
s4 Gabriel Agreste
•felix is watching the ladyblog seeing who has what miraculous (shadowmoth having the butterfly and the peacock)
•”i know each and every scratch on emilie's ring!” yeah i guess you would have to keep track of that if your wedding bands are literally tied to your sons life
• “including the power to destroy your life” -gabriel talking to felix
"and now you know i only need to snap my fingers to make you disappear from here" while holding up his fingers in a snap position, gabriel says after reinforcing the idea that he IS shadowmoth to felix (he has the peacock and can snap him away) “do you want to take that risk felix? think of your mother.” ok wow death threat.
s4 Mega Leech
• "adrien go to your room" and adrien immediately listens and goes to his room and then it shows a shot of gabriel twisting the ring
s4 Wishmaker
• might be a stretch, but when adriens childhood dream was revealed "i always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be" he had ZERO dreams because hes just used to doing what hes told, he didnt have dreams because he was just a thing to be controlled, he didnt make his choices, he didnt choose his dreams.
s4 Ephemeral
• (beginning scene with gabriel and adrien in the car) as gabriel twists the ring, he tells adrien whats what with a direct order and adrien listens
“under no circumstances will you leave that room until its finished, all im asking is that you honor my work, and the memory of your mother”
• "adrien get up" and adrien IMMEDIATELY wakes up and gets out of bed... hrm
• when he akumatized adrien, gabriel is twisting the ring (under the costume of course) and adrien eventually gives in to the akumatization
s4 Risk
• despite being under risk's influence, adrien confronts his father that he doesnt want to model anymore and gabriel tells him he has to, and adrien immediately listens
• when adrien is talking to marinette he says this: "has there ever been something you wanted to tell someone but you just couldnt do it? as if some kind of invisible force was holding you back?"
• im kinda just putting this here: felix was NOT wearing the ring he stole from before when convincing adrien to switch with him, as shown, risk and his own choice was what led him to trusting felix
• the conversation between felix and adrien- "freedom is something you make adrien, for starters you gotta stop doing everything your father tells you to" "i cant disobey him" "you cant.. but i can" - "because unlike you, i can say no to your father"
• when gabriel and natalie are talking to eachother- "i want to leave something of the agrestes behind, im trusting you with wifes ring, and my son" as he places the RING on natalies finger
• felix definitely noticed that natalie was wearing the ring and not gabriel, and he knew that he definitely could not found out now, so he immediately listened, because thats what adrien would do
“adrien i am your father and im telling you to… to..” and a shot of gabriel trying to touch the ring he doesnt have
• felix probably figured out gabriel only needs one ring to control adrien, so giving back the other ring to him wasnt too big of a deal
• felix was so insistent on the peacock miraculous because he is a sentimonster, and gabriel did quite literally threaten to kill him before because he only needed to peacock to do so not his amok
s5 Evolution
• "you could go back to the time before emilie used the damaged peacock miraculous" literally proves that emilie had used the miraculous! yes its not outright said for what but its there
• also when he gave emilie the peacock miraculous the tone was set very romanticly and i mean, whats more romantic then having a baby??? (thats a weird way to put it im sorry :((
s5 Passion
• "is what happened to my mother.. going to happen to you?" "no, no not at all!" in the least convicing way possible
s5 Perfection
• tomoe is ANGRY at gabriel (she knows hes monarch) "you sent a mega akuma into my daughters ring! you couldve endangered her!" mmmm wowwww veryyy… interesting word choice
s5 Protection
• "my daughter is so perfect she doenst need me to control her" -tomoe, pretty sure thats why kagami has her own amok
• "you and kagami are... of the same deisgn" wym by that gabriel...
• as gabriel twists the ring he says "adrien i am your father i know whats best for you better than you do" and forbids him from being a relationship with marinette
• when adrien is venting to natalie, she looks at the ring she has and tells adrien he is free to decide whatever he wants to do, and adrien immediately texts marinette again
• gabriel finds out adrien disobeyed him and immediately knew natalie was the cause, and saying "you gave adrien a counter order?!" "the power you have over adrien doenst mean you can go that far" and then a shot of her ring
s5 Adoration
• the iconic "adrien!... no" and adrien stops trying to kiss marinette "i dont know, i feel strange" erm??? and marinette sees gabriel overseeing them and he is twisting the ring
s5 Emotion
• "above all he has the obligation to follow orders" erm ok gabriel...
• when "adrien" (felix) who has the peacock miraculous looks quit shocked at kagamis ring, and then kagami (people who have the peacock miraculous can sense amoks)
• "we dont need to play puppets for our parents" "but they're still the ones pulling the strings arent they?"
• kagami looks at her ring and says "in my family you obey orders because you chose to"
•”lets leave, i dare you” “are you insane? we cant do that” “of course we can, i can”
• "no.. we cant" "see? your not as free as you claim, dont you think we should be able to decide our future" idk i just wanted to add that
• "they're looking at me like im a monster" "look closer marinette, they're the monsters" again idk
• felix snaps tomoe away and says "rejoice kagami, now your truly free"
• "when i merge your miraculous together, ill make a wish to make a better world, a free world, where no one will be under anyones control anymore" (saving only specifically sentimonsters)
• "a world where your free.. everything i did, i did for you"
• "together we're going to save adrien from my uncles grasp, so he can finally be free"
felix came up with this plan because he knows he cant get both rings from gabriel, and even if he did and gave them to adrien, gabriel would demand them back, so he needed to get rid of gabriel himself
• "can you forgive me, my friend, my sister" felix was so distraught when he had to release the red moon from existence, and he called it his "sister" as in hes related to it, or feels that strong of a connection with the sentimonster
• "i dont want to hear another word about this marinette dupain cheng again" and it cuts to a shot of gabriel twisting the ring
s5 Pretension
• another shot at the ring and gabriel saying "adrien im your father, im asking you to go up to your room" and he listens
• adrien wants to go back down in the kitchen so bad, but he cant, "i cant disobey my father" but he is TERRIFIED of leaving marinette alone
•”that monster felix” both gabriel and maybe tomoe are aware felix is a sentimonster AUGH
• "i felt that... you and i? we're the same, we have so much in common" felix to kagami
• "why dont you make a sentimonster to get us out of here?" "first of all dont call them that. i refuse to create a being to manipulate them, control them, abuse them, and end up destroying them"... "when you bring a being into this world you have a responsibility towards them, your duty is to protect them, love them, let them discover their true meaning of their existence, to deprive them of that, is monstrous" "are you talking about.. yourself?" "im talking about us"
• "and if i have to force you into obedience for that kagami, then i will" and then tomoe immediately asks for her ring, taking back control on kagami
• felix somehow got kagami to give tomoe a fake ring, while kagami got the real one, so she can have control again
s5 Revelation
• theres a moment where natalie takes photos for lila, exposing all of gabriels secrets, one of which where she takes a photo of emilie in the basement, along with the ring natalies wearing
s5 Collusion
• theres a shot of gabriel twisting the ring and him saying "i am his father, and i know what is best for him"
s5 Representation
• "i was wrong to entrust you with my son" and gabriel takes the ring off of natalies hand and puts it on his own with the other "im the only one my son will obey"
• honestly that entire play felix and kagami put on, do i really need to go over it???
s5 Conformation
• "someone will have to go in her place" "do you think id be monstrous enough to sacrifice a human being?... and you really think im a monster?" why did gabriel specify human being there... hrm...
s5 Re-creation
• "make sure adrien never knows about the villian i was" as gabriel puts down the twin rings... (adrien is always being referenced to when the rings are on screen I SWEAR)
• the end scene where adrien has the rings (he doenst know the truth but marinette does) she puts the rings on him and says "just be yourself" and adrien is jumping with glee "you always find the right words marinette, when im with you, i feel so... free!"
ok! wowie.... i feel like i couldve missed some, which is totally fine, anyway, NEXT SECTION HAHA yeah im not done ->
(first of all im not getting into season 6 to avoid spoilers and the season isnt even finished yet!)
anyway this next part if just me debunking other peoples "reasons" how adrien specifically "cant possibly be a sentimonster"
"adrien is allergic to feathers! he cant be allergic to himself!" - first of all, have you guys seen how sentimonsters/amoks work?? the feather goes into the AMOK OBJECT. not the senti being made! if anything he should be allergic to those rings. second, the reason he isnt allergic to them is because he isnt allergic to every feather in the universe, its known that he is completly fine around faux feathers, meaning he's allergic to pigeon dander, rather than the feather itself, and amok feathers are literal magic that dont have animal dander on them, hence not him sneezing up a storm around them
"what about that time in that episode (s2 Gorizilla) when hawkmoth demanded/pleaded adrien to transform into chat noir and he didnt!" - i know you'll hate me for the answer, but adrien actually did listen to the command, he just didnt do it immediately lmao, now, if he didnt transform at all in the episode (but he did in the next) that would be a weird plot hole where that excuse wouldnt fully work, but, adrien did in fact transform a little bit later in the episode! and it's not like gabriel said to transform immediately, he just said that he please do it.
"if adrien is a magical creature, how was uncanny valley able to see him? she cant detect magical creatures?" - ok i think you guys misunderstood what happened in that scene, she couldnt see PLAGG, you know, a KWAMI. who are notorus for not being able to be seen by ANY technology? plot twist guys, adrien is not a kwami
(this isnt a debunk i guess but i want to say something about it) "only felix is a sentimonster based on the play scene, adrien is half human half sentimonster" - hey so??? no??? thats not how that works??? you cant be half and half??? the way people try to explain this is literally insane lmaooo. people also take the "monster" part of sentimonster too seriously, "that would mean adrien isnt a human being!!! but he can breathe and stuff!!!" hey so how the peacock miraclous works is that you can make ANY sort of living sentiant creature from your imagination, which is exactly what emilie did, she made a human fetus and she carried him to term, he's human AND a snetimonster, its just like if the peacock user made a sentimonster dog, still a dog, just at the same time ALSO a sentimonster.
Marinette and Kagami episodes are some of my favourites because every time they interact it looks like this:
Additionally if we add the senti-twin-cousins into the mix it just becomes three autistic-coded senti-people and their emotional support chaotic adhd-er
