#series.csm

[cocksuki2]

Please, do rant about how chainsaw man is a masterpiece and it's going to have an impact on modern shounen

thank you so much for prompting me to talk about this. i have so much to say about it. im about to write an essay. manga spoilers are a given but here's the warning just in case.

firstly, fujimoto has such a strong grasp of visual storytelling. i know that this seems like a pretty baseline statement for a mangaka but i genuinely think his grasp on it in particular is spectacular. he works so much into his panels and even the placing of the characters in the frame is important.

it's a really obvious element of his work and it's both plot-driven and comedically driven, which makes it all the more compelling. oftentimes in chainsaw man, comedic scenes are indicative of a greater power hierarchy present within interactions (especially with regards to denji and makima).

makima plays a maternal role in the story and is, undoubtedly, a character fujimoto took a lot of care in writing and drawing. she's always in positions of power and almost always the focal point of panels and scenes she's present in. her sexuality as a woman is used as a weapon knowingly and she's presented as both mother, lover, and leader to denji and within the art of the series (which serves to highlight denji's deep-seated need for affection of all forms).

in fact, a lot of her positioning in the series is very maternal. even when she tears pochita from chainsaw man's chest, she is cradling his head as a mother would a babe. her chains come from her womb and diaphragm, often thought to be the location of the solar plexus chakra which dictates personality, ego, identity, personal freedom, choice, and authenticity. which is fitting considering her position as the control devil and her attempt to rob denji of his personhood. (honestly i could go on about makima and motherhood forever. i saw a tiktok about it a little while ago and ended up diving down a rabbit hole of thought).

it's also really interesting to me that denji serves as both comedic relief and a tragic character, as well as being the main protagonist of his story. it's not unheard of, but it is unique and it makes the story stand out within the shonen genre (naruto did something similar but with an entirely different message and theme). it makes denji compelling and incredibly human. 

that trope within itself is nothing new. it's somewhat common. however, what I've noticed about chainsaw man is that denji's comedic relief is almost always indicative of a greater theme. his motivations being purely sexual and romantic are, originally, presented as a comedic aspect of the series meant to introduce you to the type of person denji is. however, after reading the series, it quickly becomes an ominous indication of his ability to be easily manipulated, as well as the extortion of those qualities that lead to his (and makima's) eventual downfall and the climax of the story.

a lot of popular shonen media contains some levels of deeper analysis, but chainsaw man does it in a way in which the plot is actively dependent on that further analysis. i think csm kind of took the shonen genre and introduced a deeper level of thought to it I've only seen in a few other examples (jjk being one of them) and i think that what will come out of it is shonen manga with deeper symbolism and heavier themes.

i think chainsaw man's popularity in particular is gonna end up contributing to a greater shift in shonen and action manga towards more deliberate placement of themes and underlying messages.

that's not to say that other shonen mangas LACK those underlying messages, but i am saying that chainsaw man's popularity is largely OWED to that when it is usually the other way around. and chainsaw man, even in the first week of its anime release, is already HUGELY popular for those reasons.

i think that sometimes there is a belief with popular shonen animanga (and action media in general) that in order for it to be popular, you need these cash-grab scenes and characters. it seems to me that a lot of shonen maintains this idea of serving the palpable and blatantly obvious first and the darker second, whereas chainsaw man absolutely does NOT do that. chainsaw man puts the ugly (and somewhat comedic) aspect of tragedy in your face and then asks you to analyze it to find something even uglier and more meaningful underneath, which is a breath of fresh air in the shonen genre to me.

so all this to say: i think that chainsaw man's popularity is gonna lead to a greater shift in the shonen genre that brings analyzable media and themes to the forefront of what's considered "marketable". im really excited to see the works that come after this and what inspiration they take from it.

i realize that im not saying anything new about chainsaw man. all of these things have probably been said before and in greater detail, but from my perspective (as someone who really values composition in manga panels) this is how i see it. and NONE of this is to say that other shonen genres lack this deep of messaging. chainsaw man is, however, where i have noticed it the most of the shonen i have read.

[cocksuki2]

eternally thinking about denji and his connection to love. always thinking about the transactional nature of his sexual desire and how that factors into the importance of his unconditional connection with power and aki. always thinking about how familial love changed the course of his life and how sexual attraction was constantly leveraged as a currency above him but never taken as less than the love he feels for aki and power.

thinking about the importance of human attraction in chainsaw man, of love as a motivator. thinking always about how denji, above all, is motivated by love of all kinds whether it be familial, platonic, or sexual. thinking about how different he would have been had he met them earlier. thinking about how denji’s desire and motivation shifts from sexual attraction to the subtle idea that he could love aki and power as family forever. love as a goal and as a resolution even in his most difficult times. love as the end all be all goal for our protagonists.

thinking denji’s guilt and the weight on his shoulders and the burden of love. thinking about how new it all was to him, how loving people so deeply despite their flaws was something he had never encountered before.

thinking about love in chainsaw man in all of its forms. the currency of it, the weight it holds with all the characters. love as the greatest motivator. love triumphing above all. love keeping our protagonists going until the very last moment. love motivating our heroes to action or inaction. love as a concept of control. love as a safety blanket. love as reason enough to make the sacrifice. just love and the pivotal role it plays in chainsaw man.

[cocksuki2]

is it just me or is it irritating that people hate on himeno for taking denji home, yet stay silent about makima, as if making your teenage employee grab your boob isn’t gross as hell (amongst other things she’s done). i wish people would talk about her behavior more in the fandom overall. i feel like people don’t acknowledge it as much because a good amount of the fandom is only looking to hyper-sexualize makima, which also rubs me the wrong way. i hope what i’m saying makes sense since i’m bad at articulating

honesssttlllyyy yeah this makes absolute sense. i think that not talking abt makima the same way we talk abt himeno is like... missing a crucial part of what csm is about beneath the surface. like this is a manga about manipulation and control. there is a REASON both makima and himeno are older than denji and in positions of power over him while ALSO pursuing him sexually (whether out of a need to 1-up others or manipulation). 

to look at makima and say that their age and power difference isn’t as important or as negative in a sexual context as himeno’s is (i think) a vast misunderstanding of the story. like they BOTH are taking advantage of him because they have power over him. himeno because she clearly has a complex about makima, and makima because she aims to control the chainsaw devil.

i have a lot of conflicting thoughts abt this particular part of the story, but i find it really difficult to organize them. mostly because i still think, despite her actions, himeno is largely painted as a hero and martyr within the story while makima is the overall antagonist. i actually think it’s quite interesting the way the fandom has taken those two characters and their relatively similar actions and attributed the villainy to himeno and the "heroism” to makima. i think this can largely be attributed to the fandoms general preferences, but i also think it can be attributed to the way the characters are written. himeno remains human to the viewers and denji and is therefore fallible, where as makima (even before she is revealed to be the control devil) feels largely inhuman and above fallibility.

but i’m getting off track. the moral of the story is that yes, i def think you are right. there’s a reason both of those characters pursue denji sexually and are both older than him and in a position of power over him. it’s literally ALL about control and manipulation. 

and it’s DEFINITELY frustrating to see makima hyper-sexualized for the same actions because she is “hotter” to the overall fandom. it’s very frustrating to see. 

also... i have WAYYY TOO MANY THOUGHTS ABT THIS PARTICULAR VEIN OF CSM ANALYSIS. like... i cannot gather my thoughts for shit so i APOLOGIZE if this is incoherent or means/says absolutely nothing. i have that thing where u have a lot of thoughts u wanna get across but you can’t formulate them properly and it makes me want to CLAW MY CHEST OPEN. 

[cocksuki2]

i love this guy so bad. 

[cocksuki2]

Hey I finished reading part one of chainsaw man and like I don’t understand why people call it a masterpiece. Like the first half was great and the revelation of makima was great but afterwards it became messy and the plot just disappeared.

Like really? Makima reasoning of fucking everything up is bc she’s a fan of OG chainsaw man? There’s zero background information about the OG chainsaw man other than what makima said in the manga. Characters with the exception of aki,power, angle, denji aren’t even fleshed out and they just died like that. There were no hints that denji power erased devils existence like NOTHING was fleshed out or informative. The ending was so bland ig, like I was expecting some explanation but no, I received nothing. Chainsaw man is only great when it comes to fights, artsyle, and making people uncomfortable, but the plot wasn’t going anywhere and completely erased itself from existence.

Like people was hyping up the manga so much and I agree the hype was worth it until after makima revelation. I’m the type of person who likes good written plots like attack on titan or cliche shouen plots but not boring like jujutsu kaisen. Of all shouen manga I read I feel like chainsaw man is the only one I don’t feel like continuing. I’m in part 2 now and I don’t feel like forcing myself reading it, waiting for something great to happen or waiting for the PLOT to come back.

Anyways I’m just wondering if you can convince me to continue it.

hmmmmmmmmm while i can see what you're saying, i kinda disagree.

chainsaw man part 1 is exactly that... part 1. im under the assumption that the things we're going to learn about denji and the og chainsaw man will continue to develop as the series goes on, but i can see what you're saying about it not feeling fleshed out. but it's also not over yet.

as for csm being a masterpiece, i personally think that that part comes in with the visual storytelling. fujimoto's art is fantastic at indicating tone and power through the positioning of his characters, as well as putting symbolism within the art itself. i think fujimoto's skill shines through in the way he demonstrates denji being manipulated by the people around him, as well as how he goes about telling denji's perception of love, sex, and human connection. it's a manga about manipulation, set in an alternate universe.

imo, chainsaw man really shines when you read between the lines of what's being presented to you at face value. if you're reading the manga at face value... then you're only seeing one aspect of it. it's really clear that fujimoto put a lot of thought into the interactions his characters have in the manga, as well as how he positions them in the frames themselves. i think this is actually ESPECIALLY true for makima and the way she's portrayed.

also, when it comes to fleshing out characters, i agree that some weren’t fully fleshed out but i also kind of look at it as like... some characters are present to push the narrative forward. sometimes they aren’t fleshed out and that’s totally fine. like while i love the violence fiend, i don’t feel like the plot suffered because we didn’t get his backstory or like... a full character arc for him. he’s a side character, sometimes they aren’t fleshed out. i wanted to see more about kobeni, but i think she’ll come back later and we’ll learn more. the story isn’t over yet, so more information about characters is going to keep coming. it makes sense to me that they haven’t laid everything out already... bc that’s the continuation of the plot lol

fact is though, if you didn't like it, then it's probably just not the manga for you and that's totally fine. you don't have to like the story the way i do or even agree with me that it's a masterpiece. it's media, everyone is going to read into it differently. i just happen to think it's worth looking at further than face value because when i read it that way, it completely changed the way i see the manga.

though i am going to say... if you don't like jujutsu kaisen... you probably will not like chainsaw man. they're very similar series and fall into a super similar genre. jjk functions the same way, with its characters and stories having more depth (imo) than just what's being presented at face value. i happen to find jjk to be very interesting and well-written (aside from the way it treats its female characters on occasion) and that's probably why i like chainsaw man as much as i do. i enjoy media analysis and those two series happen to be ones that benefit GREATLY from it and have a lot to unpack.

i think you and i just happen to have differing opinions about the series we enjoy bc while i love aot, i think both jjk and chainsaw man have more coherent plots (though neither of them are finished yet). that's not to say i don't like aot and think it's good, i just think that csm and jjk are better.

anyway, i don't think i can convince you to like or continue csm if you don't already like it 😭😭😭 especially if you don't like jjk (since they're p much the same genre)

[cocksuki2]

This is not hate to the anon, and getting spoiled sucks but I always thought that even if a twist at the end or some deaths do have shock value, it doesn't devalue the story it wants to tell. Only some kind of stories may be devalued by knowing the ending like mystery ones, even then if the journey wasn't enjoyable, there's not much point to it. Don't force yourself to read/watch something you're not really enjoying, you probably won't like it much by the end because it was a chore and not entertaining (looking at you, people that watch 50+ episodes of one piece waiting for it to "get good". Maybe it doesn't work for you even though it's very popular and considered the best, and that's okay)

i don’t think this came across as hate!!

i think ur def right!!! sometimes we just don’t vibe w stories!

[cocksuki2]

no no i agree with you 100% ! but being able to read it once w/o spoilers and then again with the understanding of the manga is way different than being told every character death and the bad guy before you can even read past the title. what i was trying to get at is i think understanding and appreciating fujimoto’s work would’ve been better w/o knowing anything about the series at all. ik being spoiled has no effect on his technique, i wasnt trying to come off like that😭

ohhh okay so ur ask was a separate thought?

i can def see how spoilers would change the experience. seems like you read through it pretty quick to get to the parts you knew about / were waiting for, which sucks bc csm has a lot of symbolic imagery and stuff that gets lost that way.

regardless, spoilers def change how we interact w media, but I don’t think it takes away from the actual way he crafts his story.

[cocksuki2]

⚠️csm spoilers⚠️

i wish i could agree with you about chainsaw man being a masterpiece but i feel like the only people who can say that are the ones who were able to read it through without spoilers😭. They’re the only people who’re able to truly appreciate and praise csm and fujimoto’s work on it. That statement’s true don’t get me wrong but I can’t like wholeheartedly believe that yk? When you try to read it having already been told what happens, you get to the end and it’s like “oh… so this is what everyone’s hyped this up for…. kay moving on” . Chainsaw man is good but personally not as good as everyone said it would be, I had to force myself through every chapter bc i wanted to see why it was named the best new gen manga. If I hadn’t been told “everyone but denji dies” before I started it, I’d probably agree with you

i have no idea what this has to do with the actual quality of the storytelling 😭😭😭 im so sorry i had a whole response typed up but i genuinely just... im lost.