#spn 12.17

[holding-out-for-an-antihero]

i mean, it happened to dean literally last season

[mittensmorgul]

I might be missing something obvious but why did Lucifer not need Nick's consent to use his body as a vessel?

I assume you mean when Crowley shoved him back into Nick's body in 12.08? Using a modified version of Rowena's "send him directly to the cage" spell and the banishing egg... heck what was that thing called... THE HYPERBOLIC PULSE GENERATOR, right.

>.>

Honestly, for me? The only part of that whole situation was that Nick was apparently STILL IN THERE TOO.

In 12.13, Crowley describes to Lucifer how he crammed him back in Nick's vessel. And you know what, I'm not putting a bunch of Eugenie villain monologue dialogue here, because I am just too tired lol. If you want to read start here:

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/12.13_Family_Feud_(transcript)

from the first FLASHBACK scene (just search that word on that page, it takes you right there)

Davy TRIES to make it make sense in 12.15, explaining how Nick's body was effectively made into the cage:

CROWLEY: That chain around your neck? Was nothing. A stylish accessory. This vessel… That's your true prison. It's been warded with runes and spellwork from the Cage, carved into every molecule. In there? I own you. [ Sighs ] I'm just getting started. So… I'm gonna put you back in your hole, and then I'm gonna go find your spawn, and I'm gonna rip him apart while you watch. And then? I'm still just getting started. [Crowley punches Lucifer in the face]

I remember being like YES CROWLEY DOES HAVE A PLAN, THIS WILL ALL MAKE SENSE EVENTUALLY. Like... why would he of ALL people not want to shove Lucifer into the cage and lock it back up? It just made NO SENSE.

And all Davy's hard work at laying down a coherent explanation for HOW he was crammed in there falls apart in the next bucklemming episode with all the wtf "polarity reversal" nonsense. And Lucifer taking back control of his vessel and having that same sort of power over Crowley.

WHY. IT WAS ALL SO STUPID.

Things Crowley could've done after 12.17 but for some reason did not:

-recruit the winchesters for help, confessing what he did with lucifer -rebuilt the Lance of Michael (Davy in 12.12 again trying to give us a weapon that could stop Lucifer... and Crowley breaking it to save Cas... he and Cas had a mutual interest in killing Lucifer at this point...) -asked for Rowena's help sending Lucifer back to the actual cage... or HONESTLY if Crowley understood her spell enough to pervert its course to send Luci to Nick's body, he should've been able to do this one himself... >.>

Probably half a dozen other things that would've made more sense... but no...

The show wanted Lucifer/Nick more than it wanted Crowley, which... ugh...

Which brings us to the end of s13, and Lucifer's demise. I assumed that would actually be the last we'd see of him. *ugly laughing*

But no, apparently whatever magic Crowley had used to forge the Nick Vessel for Crowley required Nick's soul actually being in there? Which as you point out with your question is... nonsensical...

The phrase "discarded vessel" Crowley uses in his first convo with re-envesseled Lucifer implies "empty," i.e. that Nick was no longer in there. Knowing what we do of Nick, and the assumption that he was dead after 5.22, the logical conclusion was that he went to Hell and Crowley just shoved him in the "cage vessel" with Lucifer, or otherwise used his soul in the reconstruction of that vessel into something equivalent to the Cage. I think they were hoping there was enough flimflam in there for us to just handwave that one and not think too hard about it.

Which is honestly how I approach all Eugenie plot points. The most unfortunate thing is how it clearly affects the rest of canon, with Lucifer and then Nick overstaying their plot welcome by a decade. Though I do appreciate the other writers doing their best to point out how Lucifer's entire plot out beyond s11 revolved around how he felt he'd been rendered irrelevant to the story, and always fighting to center himself in the narrative as if anyone cared about him at all. Even Chuck just... dismissed him, basically. So... at least we have that shred of satisfaction?

But yeah, it's... it's exhausting, and this is the best explainer I've been able to come up with for any of it. I should probably have some more coffee and read this over to make sure I didn't miss anything big, but I just don't want to devote any more brain power to thinking about Nick rn... maybe later. :'D

[punainenpuolukka]

I wonder if Eileen stopped reading the BMoL guy's (you know the one she accidentally kills later) lips and instinctually went "Nobody cares" when she saw mouth movement. I mean I know she didn't but it was just too perfect. I miss Eileen.

[jennsens]

SPN 12.17 DVD Commentary | Adam Fergus (Mick Davies)

[thebratfarrar]

A tribute to season twelve: The British Invasion

[i-drifting]

character: gets a ton of development everyone who has been here for longer than a season: yeah theyre gonna fucking die

[nancylou444]

samismyman87 replied to your post: samismyman87 replied to your photoset: ...

Well you know how much I hate this story line and whats happened to Lucifer. It’s just the writers seem to be forgetting so much. Lucifer is acting like he wants the baby for a family or he thinks the kid will help. Instead of a vessel. Castiel was supposed to pay for killing billie and breaking the deal but nope nothing.

The things I do for my lovelies. :p I just went through the transcripts and in The British Invasion we have this:

LUCIFER: Dagon. Dagon... Hear me.

DAGON [hearing Lucifer telepathically]: I do, sire.

LUCIFER: News of my son... All is well?

DAGON : As can be expected.

LUCIFER: And the, uh... container?

DAGON : She should last as long as needed.

LUCIFER: Well, she better. Don't fail me, Dagon. Not again.

and this:

LUCIFER: Mm. Well... You can crack it, right?

DEMON [nervously]: Y-yeah. I just need some time. I'll... I'll be quick.

LUCIFER: Good. 'Cause I am gettin' stir crazy. And I'm about to be a dad.

So I guess he does consider it his son. 

------------------------------------------

Yes, what happened to:

BILLIE: We made a pact, bound in blood. You break that, there’s consequences on a cosmic scale

**le sigh**

[gabavaldman]

Let’s discuss spn 12x17

I just read on Facebook the chat between Franzi a.k.a @faith-in-dean and Kirby a.k.a @crowleyshellhoundspn. May I say that i find it really interesting. Like I can see Ketch as a very emotional human being.. I just wish the writers would explore his character more. I’d like to see his growth. We all noticed how not pleased he was with the fact that he has to kill Dean.

what do y’all think??