#starting conversion

[ask-jumblr]

do you have any advice on how to email a rabbi about conversion? i have one i want to reach out to but i’m struggling with how to word it, please help

While respondents are welcome to give further advice, these past asks may also be helpful:

https://ask-jumblr.tumblr.com/post/652199013994708992/im-very-interested-in-converting-to-reform-judaism,

https://ask-jumblr.tumblr.com/post/632634847179030528/hello-does-anyone-have-a-good-script-or-template,

https://ask-jumblr.tumblr.com/post/632085606995001344/i-keep-seeing-ask-a-rabbi-and-im-nervous-about.

-Mod Alef

[jewishconvertthings]

Can I convert Orthodox being trans?

My father is a secular Jew and my mother is a lapsed Christian. For almost the entirety of my life, I have wanted to convert Orthodox and have done everything I possibly can to observe, I taught myself how to read Hebrew, I davened regularly, I tried to keep shabbos and kashrut in a house that observes neither, I briefly joined a Hebrew elementary school before I was urged to leave for mental instability, I became a member of a local shul, I even had a non Orthodox bar mitzvah, all while knowing that in reality I am not Jewish but just zera yisrael. I don’t think I could serve Hashem and the world in any better form than Judaism, and I feel that it could be my duty to to ensure that Judaism in my family will not disappear and that the G-D loving pious men and women I am descended from did not go to Auschwitz in vain. The problem is that I intend to transition once I turn 18 and I’m scared that no Orthodox beis din would take me. What are my options? Can I swerve around the fact that I was not born female once I have the operation? That doesn’t seem right and I can’t imagine Hashem would look too favorably on me joining this way. And also while I respect reform and conservative, there are certain theological beliefs in both that don’t align wth how II perceive Judaism so I don’t want to go that route. I just cannot abandon my heritage and I simply cannot not be a girl and yet I am born in a predicament where I have to sacrifice one for the other. What can I do?

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Hi @lanasmoczynska,

Some caveats before I answer this - I did not convert orthodox, although I did work with an orthodox rabbi for a bit and seriously considered it. I still have ties to that community, that rabbi, and (pre-pandemic) would still attend services there. Ultimately, it was not possible for me to convert orthodox because my spouse was not converting with me; my non-binaryness seemed to pose less of a problem, albeit we didn’t end up having to quite reach that question. However, it is also worth noting that I would likely have ended up effectively converting as my assigned sex at birth despite my non-binaryness being respected for non-ritual purposes. Therefore, I have neither the experience of actually completing an orthodox conversion nor of trying to do so while sitting on the opposite side of the mechitza from my birth assigned sex.

Even in my community, however, while there are trans men who sit on the men’s side, dress as men, and observe halacha as men, they still do not count toward minyan and are not called up to the bimah. I am not sure if they would insist on counting a trans woman or not, as we do not have any active members who are trans women, although I suspect not. As a non-binary person, I was accommodated with being referred to using the right pronouns, allowed to choose my presentation mode, and allowed to sit in either a third space or pick the side of the mechitza that best fit my presentation, which would have been the women’s side. Unfortunately, I don’t know how conversion would work for a trans person in this community, since the trans members we have were born halachically Jewish. It is worth noting that this community is at the outer left edges of orthodoxy as far as I’m aware. Therefore, I can say that it is possible to exist as trans in this community, it may even be possible to assemble a beit din that would convert a trans person in this type of community, but there will still be ways in which it is not perfect.

All that said, my recommendation would be to reach out to Eshel and see if they can recommend an orthodox rabbi who you can work with who will respect your gender identity. I would recommend following this up by having a conversation with trans members of your prospective community if they exist. (If they don’t, you will want to consider seriously what it would mean for you to be the first one.) Regardless, it certainly won’t be an easy road, but if that is what is in your heart, all you can do is try.

Eshel’s info can be found here: https://www.eshelonline.org/transeshel/.

Additionally, I will also point out that orthodoxy does not have a monopoly on traditional halachic observance. If you cannot make orthodoxy work, the traditional egalitarian movement might be a viable alternative for you. Hadar is a good place to start looking if you are interested.

Edit: If you would like to further discuss my personal experiences around what it’s like existing in that community as trans and/or what my work with that rabbi looked like, you are more than welcome to DM me.

[ask-jumblr]

I'm planning to move in January, to a city with a reform synagogue, with the desire to convert. Is it acceptable to reach out before I even finalize my plans, before I'm actually in the city? It's actually all the way across the USA from where I am now. Obviously conversion/attending synagogue is still up in the air with Covid, and I'd like to know that as soon as possible, rather than waiting until I'm there to reach out. I could also use some advice on what to say if I do reach out. Thanks!

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[ask-jumblr]

I have wanted to be Jewish for 10 years now (I'm 21), but I've met a lot of obstacles in pursuing conversion at my current synagogue, mostly due to my health. I'm moving to a new city, which means a new synagogue and a new rabbi, and I really want to finally start my conversion. I don't really know the protocol here -- should I email the rabbi and explain my interest in conversion first, or wait until I've been attending for a while? In case it's important, it's a reform synagogue in a big city.

[jewishconvertthings]

{I am aware that you’re not a mental health professional of any sort. I’ve got counseling eval/intake in the works. I’m not trying to ask about something related to MI management that can only be answered by a therapist or related professional.}

I’m not in a geographically appropriate place for conversion, so I currently don’t have a rabbi. In the mean time, I’ve been trying to do some early research, including what can come up in a meeting with a rabbi, and I’ve got a question about that (and extent of disclosure).

It’s obviously not uncommon for a rabbi to ask why someone’s interested in conversion, but is it disqualifying if there’s a connection to a mental health episode? On the psych front, I don’t foresee a therapist weighing in on that, but I ran into someone talking about how they were asked to do psychological evaluation (here). I know that blog is focused on an Orthodox conversion, so it’s possible a non-Orthodox conversion may not include that, but I’m honestly not sure if I outright admit to mental health issues.

I’m also not sure if I should just get that out of the way in the first meeting or to what extent I should disclose that to the potential rabbi. I’m in the works for a bipolar disorder diagnosis (probably II), and my interest in conversion started after - well, there’s no easy to say it - an episode including a dream from G-d, planning and creating a sideblog for conversion, buying Choosing A Jewish Life by Anita Diamant, and even picking out a Hebrew name in less than a week.

I’m not sure if it was a mixed episode or just hypomanic, but I’ve waited a few years to give myself time to really think on conversion (~3 years). I’ve followed a variety of blogs, I walked away for a bit when I wasn’t sure I could trust myself, I’ve done some of the easy-without-a-rabbi research and reading, and I’ve experienced jumblr cycles of holidays + humor + discussion.

It may not have been a conventional start, but I’m confident that I’m not faking this. While I’ve encountered mental health discussions from born Jews, I haven’t been finding much relating to conversion candidates openly admitting to something like this before the mikvah. Trying to approach this on the bipolar research front is a bit complicated. Most content focuses on addressing delusions with religious themes (mania and bipolar I), sorta mentions hyperreligiosity in passing, or is a bit too xtian focused to be personally helpful.

tl;dr Would admitting to a mental health episode kicking off an interest in conversion dissuade a potential rabbi from working with me? Should I be upfront about this in the first meeting(s)? Would a general version - not specifying bipolar disorder - be alright for the start of the process, or would that look dishonest to not provide full disclosure? Is a psych eval just something that particular Orthodox blogger had to do, or would I have to do that in a non-Orthodox conversion?

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Hi anon, 

This is a super sensitive subject, and I appreciate your trust in asking about it. 

I think it might be useful to first think about this from the rabbi’s perspective as a professional when thinking about how to approach him/her. Their job is to make sure that no one rushes into this or does it for the wrong reasons. This is to protect you from making a rash choice about a very serious decision, as well as to protect the community from anger or backlash as a result, to protect their own reputation as a rabbi who does their due diligence in vetting prospective gerim, and to protect their completed students from unnecessary scrutiny. That’s a lot to balance, which tends to lead to caution on their behalf. 

At the same time, whether anyone wants to admit it or talk about it or not, plenty of gerim have mental health struggles and/or live with mental illness(es). Mental illness is extremely common and so it would be ridiculous to limit conversion to purely neurotypical folks. There’s a difference between protecting mentally ill folks who are having an episode from converting when that’s not a choice they would have made when healthy and stable, and barring mentally ill people from converting at all. The latter denies people with mental illness the agency to make important life choices from themselves, and it is entirely possible to achieve a balance between understandable caution and respecting everyone’s right to make their own religious decisions. 

All that said, what I would suggest you do is get yourself to as stable a place as possible. Get your diagnosis from a professional, and work with that professional to create an effective treatment/management program that is tailored to your individual needs and living situation. Make sure to talk to them about your religious inclinations! Let them know this is something you’ve been considering for several years now, but that you’re wanting to explore it in a careful way due to the origins of your interest in it. 

Once you’ve done that, you’ll be able to tell any rabbi you are hoping to work with that you are proactively addressing these concerns and have professional support. That should help to allay most reasonable people’s fears. If they are still leery, I would directly ask them what they would need to see in order to feel comfortable moving forward. Then decide if that is something you are willing to work with. If not, I would try to connect with a different rabbi. 

As for how to frame it? I wouldn’t necessarily lead with this information, but rather let it come up naturally as part of your discussion. If you (and your therapist) don’t think it’s a problem, then I wouldn’t preemptively treat it like one. Focus on what you’ve done and how you’ve felt in the three years since your first inspiration and what still draws you to Judaism this much later. Three years is a long time to consider any life decision, and I think it’s great that you’ve taken that time on your own initiative. While I can’t speak for anyone else, I think most people you might work with would feel similarly, particularly if you’ve taken practical steps to help yourself and manage your condition. 

As a final note - I am certainly no expert on orthodox conversions, having not personally completed one, so I’m not sure how common it is for people to have to have a psych eval as part of their conversion process. If someone who did convert orthodox wants to speak to that, please feel free. What I can tell you is that it was a standard requirement for every candidate for the orthodox beit din I looked into converting with, and this is stated in their FAQ conversion materials. 

However, I would be surprised if it came up as a requirement in a liberal conversion of any branch, except under some pretty exceptional circumstances. Neither my Reform rabbi, nor any of my Conservative rabbis were concerned about me (or any other students I’m aware of, even those who confided significant mental health concerns to me) having one done and I would guess that they would most likely have a pretty negative reaction to the idea of that as a requirement. 

tl;dr - I think you should be fine - just make sure you get your ducks in a row so that both you and your rabbi can feel confident moving forward. Best of luck to you in your explorations!

[jewishconvertthings]

i had a mental breakdown during my first Saturday morning sabbath service. my fiance is jewish and was supposed to help me but he got lost, so then i got lost. my worst fear is making a mistake so i got so stressed out that i couldn't stop crying. i left right before the ark was opened and walked around the city crying for hours. i emailed the rabbi and she said i should come back next week. how do i cope with making such a big scene? im afraid that im just too anxious and stupid to convert.

Hi anon, 

Okay, so embarrassing story time. 

(Warning: this is a little gross & TMI, but hopefully nothing too squicky or inappropriate) 

It’s three (at most four-five, but I really think it was only three) weeks into attending services at my first congregation and we’re in the middle of Torah study. I go from being 100% fine and listening attentively - I hadn’t yet mustered the courage to start actually talking or contributing - to realizing I needed to be in the bathroom, like, two minutes ago. 

So I bolt. 

(Important editorial note: I am genderfluid and my presentation changes. At this point, the rabbi knows this, but most everyone else doesn’t.) 

I get to the bathroom and proceed to have an incredibly painful situation, the highlights of which include bloody diarrhea and blacking out for a few seconds which results in me falling and bruising my face. 

After being in there about a half hour, apparently the rabbi dips out to come check on me. In the men’s room. Which I am not in. 

So then he pulls aside one of the women who had taken me under her wing and has her check on me in the women’s room. 

I pathetically try to tell her I’m okay, and she (being a mom and therefore Knows) insists on taking me to urgent care, who then proceed to send me on to the emergency room. 

The upshot of all of this is that within the first month, I have an Incredibly Personal and Humiliating Health Problem that people actually find out about because it happened at shul, and also this is how at least some folks found out that I’m non-binary. 

SO the moral of the story and reason why I’m oversharing with you is this: Embarrassing stuff happens. You know how people responded? They were nice. Like really, really nice. Said aforementioned friend even took me to the ER and actually offered to help me pay for it once she realized my partner and I were flat broke at the time. 

—–

I know starting can be really scary and anxious and trust me, I was on the verge of tears the first couple times I went because I didn’t know how to be in that space yet. Truly, I get it. 

But you’re not stupid and you won’t be anxious there forever. And, there’s no way you embarrassed yourself as much as me. ;-) 

If you’re looking for tips on beginning being in that space, here are some helpful posts: [1], [2], [3]  Also feel free to DM me if you’re looking for branch-specific advice. I’ve spent significant time now in Reform, Conservative, and Modern Orthodox shuls, and my beginner advice is slightly different for each. 

I’m also guessing that your fiance is a great resource on this stuff, too! I would make sure to have a conversation about your nervousness and try to work on feeling more comfortable in that space together. 

Good luck, take your rabbi’s advice, trust that people will be kind, and I’m sure you’ll be just fine!

[jewishconvertthings]

This may sound like a weird question but with the High Holidays generally being kind of a confusing time to try and convert, what would you say is the "best time" for a first time synagogue-goer to try going to a service? Even specific times of year aside, would you recommend a Friday evening or a Saturday morning? What would you say is the "best" time for a first service?

Hi anon!

This isactually a really good question! I think the answer depends heavily on theindividual, the branch they’re interested in converting to, and the communitythey’re converting in.

Some communities are large enough to have conversion classes,and if you’re looking to convert in that context, I would time it based aroundwhen the class starts and your own preferences. If you’d like to get the lay ofthe land first, you could start going a couple months ahead of the start of theclass; alternatively, if you’re more concerned about meeting other conversionstudents and being part of a specific cohort, you could start at the start ofthe class or right before.

In communities without classes, it matters a lot less and ismore based on personal preferences and, as you rightly pointed out, theholidays. However, in my small shul with only individual, independent study, Ipersonally started going only a couple months ahead of the High Holidays, and Iactually really don’t regret that choice? In fact, I’m pretty happy Itimed it that way?

For me, the reason I actually think the High Holidays were a greattime to start (for me, anyway) was because they’re just so intense and myfeelings were probably the most intense they’ve ever been, so I had aseasonally appropriate outlet for those feelings. Furthermore, they’re prettyspectacular, and I’m glad I got to approach them for the first time without feelingany pressure to do them “right” but only with a sort of childlike wonder. Thisyear, I can do the whole teshuva/repentance/intensive spiritual digging fromthe perspective of a nearly finished convert and with all the knowledge thatcomes with that. So, in a lot of ways, I feel like I can do the holidaysright this year in a way that I’m not sure I even could have a few months ago.(To wit, I somewhat regret how I approached Pesach this past spring; I justwasn’t mentally or emotionally prepared and I look forward to doing it betternext spring. I’m really glad it was Pesach and not the High Holidays, though!)

And, if you’re looking to fall in love with Judaism, youabsolutely hands down cannot beat Sukkot – building and dining in a sukkah withthe stunning beauty of a crisp autumn sky is such an incredible experience andI’m so stoked to do it again soon (sooner than I can even believe!) Also,Simchat Torah is a close runner-up for incredible introductory holidays,especially if your shul does the thing mine does of unrolling the whole Torahscroll and holding it together as a community.

Ahhhhh

(I love fall, and I love love love that Judaism has somany wonderful holidays packed into it!)

Sorry.

Fall is actually a great time to start, if you want. Ifyou’re worried about being overwhelmed – well, first of all, that’s okay.You’re probably going to be overwhelmed and lost anyway, and at least if it’sthe holidays there’s a vague excuse at hand for it. (You’re also not going tobe the focus of the Rabbi for a while until that sort of dead space betweenSimchat Torah and Chanukah – for better or worse. I actually appreciated thespace, but I can definitely see how that would be hard for someone else.)

I don’t recommend starting around Chanukah if you alreadyfeel like November through January is like getting punched in the face by Santa,and I’d also probably avoid starting around Pesach if you’re hoping to make alot of friends in the congregation, because the prep for Pesach is a ton ofstress, both on a home prep level and on a “my entire extended family is goingto be here” level. Personally, if you’re thinking about starting in the spring,I’d talk to the Rabbi, sign up for a community seder, and then formally start aftereveryone is able to eat chametz again.

Otherwise, I’m not sure there’s a bad time? I guess if you’rein a university community, you might want to wait until fall because everyonetravels over the summer so it’s kind of dead. Then again, if you like the ideaof things being kind of dead for a while to ease into things, it might actuallybe the best time.

You’ll just want to reach out to the Rabbi, get the lay ofthe land, and make choices based on your own comfort levels, preferences, andthe dynamic of your community.

Best of luck!