#talking about robert

[drawerswithouthandles]

I'm not happy about Aaron's choice. Yes, it's his choice to be with Robert and the baby. I was pro-Robron during the affair era, I supported them after the lodge. Probably it's not my fault that I can't accept all this sl, provably it's because the show failed to convince me that they should be together. I knew they were meant to be together after the lodge. But now? I just don't know

Hiya Nonny,

negativity under the cut:

*sigh*

I get that the feeling towards them as a couple has changed a lot. For me, they took something away, that was important for me - that Robert wanted to change and be better for Aaron. They took the focus of Aaron and put it on Robert’s son. Instead of making it about Robert changing and being better for HIMSELF. That was something I had hoped would happen at the end of this SL, cause it would have made Robert and Aaron so much better as a couple. But it didn’t, Robert just repeated words, he told Aaron last year, to Seb. “I will try to be better for you…”    

This narrative in the past that Robert put all of his wellbeing on Aaron and made his life about pleasing Aaron. This put tons of pressure on Aaron, to behold this pedestal Robert put him on - which then crumbled and Aaron ended up in Prison, to get cheated on, to add the baby. The baby is now the placeholder that Robert wants to be a better person for. 

That’s it. The show didn’t let Aaron be angry with Rebecca. Ross was never the shown as “being cheated on” as well, cause they needed Rebecca as the innocent womb. Which made this whole SL so hard to swallow.

We saw tons of build-up to Robert crashing, but when it was done (way harsher, then we ever thought it would happen) and we were asking why the fuck Robert slept with Becky, the show said “yeah cause Robert is a cheat!!!” But that was not the on-screen narrative… not at all, he didn’t sleep with Rebecca, cause he couldn’t keep his dick in his pants, it was so much more - but big parts of the aftermath treated Robert as IF he was cheating cause he had fun with it. Even Chrissie made that remark, that Robert only sleeps with people, if he wants to. 

Anyway we had a very harsh plot point, the cheating, with no satisfying aftermath, and its like… glossed over with a pregnancy and now a baby. 

The baby itself had tons of death omens, and foreshadowing that it wouldn’t stick around, Rebecca at the baby shower, that she hates all that death stuff, then Robert telling his fathers grave he will be a dad to this kid until the day he died, he ‘soap died’ on christmas. His dream of Seb disappearing/being sick. But the baby is still here, used to link Rebecca and Robert together. We had one episode of Robert coming to terms with being a dad, that mostly involved AARON telling him to step-up. That was a theme the show kept going, anytime Robert was questioning Aaron sort of swooped in and said “but you have to be a dad to your son!” “he needs you!” “time to step up!” and Robert did. 

This is how we landed here somehow, and that’s why it all feels weird. Cause Aaron went from “your unborn son I already hate” to the biggest dad!bert cheerleader besides Victoria. With almost being offscreen the whole time. 

And now we get told, how Aaron is feeling, that he is happy. Instead of showing it to us… but I don’t want fan-service baby scenes, I would have wanted some build-up? Aaron talking to Liv about ‘the brat’, Aaron ACTUALLY talking about Seb in that Pub scene, that was somehow about CHAS’s pregnancy… that would have been an amazing opportunity for Aaron to voice his opinion, but he only laughed along while other characters taking the mick and he said he was happy not brave, which is fine. He doesn’t love Robert cause of the baby/situation, he loves him regardless. 

That’s the framing of the SL atm, that Aaron can overcome this misery, cause he loves Robert so much, that he wants to deal with the pain. “I will handle it”

That’s were the fandom is jumping the gun a lot, people are already were we might be in a few months -> Rebecca, Robert and Aaron as a coparent unit. That hasn’t happened yet - At the moment Robert is keeping the place warm for Rebecca to regain her independence and be a fulltime-mother to Seb again. That’s what we get told at the moment, that Rebecca wants to get better and Robert/Victoria are supporting her. She will most likely get worse, before she gets better, until then we will see Robert and Aaron as a coparent unit. (at least that’s what we got told via twitter, no idea how reliable that is) 

But I am just not that interested in seeing those characters as parents, that’s my biggest problem I think. I want them at their best, being scheming assholes, I am way more excited about the Joe/Robert-nonsense, then any of the baby stuff. 

Liv is already a big responsibility and they are not doing the best job with her atm, why do I want another kid in the mix? That takes away screen time for amazing car chases, stunts, holding people at gunpoint xDD

I like Robert and Aaron as a couple, cause they are usually good at the high drama stuff, but this SL has been boring for aaaaages…. and aaages… and mostly on Aarons expense, he has to bury his dreams of becoming first time parents with Robert, cause Robert already done all that, went to birthing classes with Becky and was there when his son was born etc. Aaron was on the outside of this experience. 

I don’t want Robert sitting between kids in at a birthday party… that’s like the LAST thing I want to see Robert doing O_O (especially when Aaron is not with him and making fun of him)

 —

The lodge was filmed and directed under another producer, so it’s always a bit tricky to compare KO’s vision for them, with IM’s vision. They feel really different, more settled with IM, but also… more unstable? In a way, I would have never thought Robert would cheat on Aaron, but he did. That’s just not a Robert I can relate to and nothing really changed in him, that shows us that he won’t go there again. Cause all the promises, that he would be faithful, to put Aaron FIRST, he had already made them, three weeks before the cheating than happened. So its really hard to trust the show, to not go there again, when they want to add more DRAMA.

[drawerswithouthandles]

"nothing really changed in him, that shows us that he won’t go there again. Cause all the promises, that he would be faithful, to put Aaron FIRST, he had already made them, three weeks before the cheating than happened. " -- Exactly this! It's why I can't get excited about the wedding either. I just don't believe in these characters anymore - what they say, how they react; nothing feels meaningful anymore. They had the big gestures, the big fall outs, and it all gets swept under a rug for plot.

Hiya Nonny,

I think what we experienced in this SL is something that happens to every fandom once in a while. When the fanon and the canon doesn’t overlap during high drama events. We can lose connection and understanding of characters we loved before and thought we knew. Cause they reacted and behaved differently as we expected. 

And when the shift stays, we might never get the connection feeling back. Results are often, that people talk about “characters being OOC” or “bad writing” - and gosh we had a bunch of ‘bad writing’ and characters acting weirdly during this SL.

I would recommend to take a small step back, maybe even from fandom, watch either for yourself or take a small break and come back in the new storyline. It might help to find meaning again. Nothing feels more awful then to not connect with something you once loved and thought you understood. 

Honestly, lots of people I talk on here regularly did exactly that!

Thoughts that have very little to do with your question, mostly rambling about Robert and Redemptions under the cut:

I am NOT saying by ANY means, that I think Robert will cheat again. (any time soon) Its just that after this SL nothing really NEEDS to make that much sense. 

After the cheating this fandom meta’d the HECK out of the scenes, tried to make sense, why Robert would do that to Aaron, why this insignificant prison fight completely tipped him over. And we found some answers. Some things made more sense after the reveal episode. But still some things never really fit together. (Rebeccas whole character for example, the baby first as a constant reminder, then as a sh trigger, now as a cute coparenting option?, Robert turning dark side for a bit etc.) 

But the most popular theory was for ages, that the ONS never happened or we would get a twist and everything would be alright again. Look, even today, the baby is 4 months old, there has never been any real questioning of paternity, a good chunk of the fandom is only here, cause they still hope for a “Ross is the dad”-reveal. 

It’s a soap, they are usually not that deep. You get HEAVY hints if something should FEEL off or get taken by the hand and shown what’s going on. Like comparing it with Vadam, the audience knew for a good while, that Adam wasn’t the dad (and got occasionally reminded) and were just waiting for this to blow up. 

Here, we only have the knowledge, that Lachlan caused the crash, a deleted voicemail and a brain damaged witness. And it revolves around characters, that the GA doesn’t care about anyway( The Whites don’t even have gravestones in the village)

So as for Roberts redemption, it felt for ages, that the show sort of, took loving and compassionate Robert away from us, only to sell him back as ‘new and improved’. 

Even tho we saw him already in his first redemption - getting Chrissie off for manslaughter, this was not connected to Aaron in any way. Robert making up with Andy, in Chicken 2.0 was only indirectly about Aaron. So the fandom picture, that the first redemption was ‘all about Aaron’ and this redemption is ‘better’ cause its NOT about Aaron (where Aaron was the one making Dad!bert possible in the first place) is a bit inaccurate from the get go.

Robert did feel like a 2D version of himself for big parts of this SL, like he was running on heartbreak, I know that, but some of his actions were just really OTT, and all reaction we got from Aaron (the only person that matters to Robert) was “At least no one died” xDD I mean yay! But it’s also… a bit unsatisfying, that Robert got this LOW and there are just no consequences to it… nothing. All people that could hold him accountable for any of it are dead or brain damaged/depending on him. 

And I don’t mean only NEGATIVE consequences!! Robert had severe sleep issues?? He was always living on the brink of a break-down? Why is he not in counseling? The reveal episode in May promised that Robert would go with Aaron, that’s completely forgotten about, even though the dude could really need some support. Look how fast he crumbled on Aaron’s sofa on VDay, the he is still living close to a break-down? Are we not meant to see it that way? Has getting back together with Aaron fixed all those lingering issues? Another pillar of Roberts second redemption is guilt and I am not sure if that is that much better then the first redemption. 

I know, lots of people are okay now with the way this was told and that’s alright. Cause soaps often takes their characters to extremes and suck in the aftermath. So, I try to get on board with things and forget the stuff that happened that just felt ‘icky’. 

There are things to look forward to! We get a more Aaron centric SL in April, the Joe/Robert stuff looks like fun. Liv gets focus, Gerry is in the Mill :D 

[drawerswithouthandles]

*__* I haven’t been this excited in ages OMG... They are skipping past all my worst case scenarios. There is NO reunion over a “dramatic/romantic” gesture... this is not what Christmas is!!! I was so uncomfortable with the idea. That Robert will almost die and Aaron will feel SO bad, he has to take him back! This sends all the wrong signals and leaves Robert just free to NOT change... Robert has to work HARD to get Aaron back now. But not in an ACTIVE kind of way.

Aaron always saw the good in Robert and wanted that for Robert and the first time around, he gave him another chance, after all the affaire horrors, when Robert SHOWED him he had changed and was more caring towards him. Now we get a second stage of that. Cause as lovely as the first reunion was, Robert still left Lawrence for dead, would have taken everything from Chrissie, if he had known about her and Andys relationship before they finalized the divorce terms etc. We saw plenty of stuff where Robert still was just... only out for himself and not willing to change at all... Rebecca was the catalsyst for that. Aaron told him multiple times to stay away from her and that he was unhappy with them hanging around each other. But Robert was so arrogant and confident in his skills to manipulate her, that he just didn’t care (I think I am one of the only ones that really hated the pub backroom scene, were Robert kissed Aaron silent and didn’t acknowledge his worries) 

Now we might be getting that: A Robert that actually listens to people and tries to take their feelings into account before he acts  - A Robert that would have never slept with Rebecca, cause not only would he not want to hurt Aaron (which is nice and all) but he wouldn’t want to HURT Rebecca and destroy his friendship with her just because he can. 

I am so excited for Robert finally letting people in! The fandom was fuming when Robert was left alone when Aaron was in prison.... but did we see him ASKING for fucking help? NO

Cain was there, willing to help with prison, but Robert didn’t go to him. The Dingles would have taken in Liv or Noah, if taking care of them was to much (just like they did now, when Aaron ASKED them to! omg the concept)

But Robert loves to be strong, he loves to be that cocky asshole that can take on everything at once... he could have easily asked Chas not to go to Prage... and she would have stayed.

Same with the support after the break-up, fandom was unhappy with that? Why? Vic was coming round, and Robert insulted her marriage, which lasted LONGER then his and was way more serious (they were trying for kids ffs, living together for years by now) then his and Aaron’s marriage ever was... but Robert is a dick and “Adam is no Aaron” I can totally see, why Vic wasn’t very pleased with helping Robert there. Same with Diane and Doug, who tried to help him... what did Robert do? Complain about the small light free boxroom they were offering him (for free) and calling them boring. 

Robert is just so self centered and this fandom is loving this behavior and then wondering, why he never gets help and support x’D He does, he is just a dick about it.

Hopefully this will change and Aaron will get to see that. Maybe over a couple of weeks, please... like Robert accepting Aaron moving on and letting go and sorting his own shit out with Rebecca and with being a dad. Maybe I can even start to like Dad!Bert cause I am still struggling with that. He never acted in any way that he deserved access to this kid. But maybe he changes and this will change, that he actually CAN be a dad. 

I am guessing the White exit will be the next big thing, where things will change again, we will finally see, where Seb is ending up. I always feared he would stick around and Aaron had to force himself to accept this part of Robert now, but it doesn’t feel that way at all. Cause Aaron has finally options. He is not in a place anymore, we has to hurt himself to BE with Robert. (Or better putting his OWN happiness over the happiness of others)

I am really looking forward to all this *__*

[drawerswithouthandles]

I do understand how Aaron accepting the baby can facilitate the reunion. But I can't get how it can help Aaron and Robert to sort out their problems. It will prove once again that Aaron has a heart of gold and nothing else. But it's supposed to be about Robert, his redemption and growth.

This is sadly not directly an answer, cause my issues with this Sl are just super complex and we are not at the end yet. But here are my thoughts on the SL and the Baby, they are super rambly, and maybe a bit more negative, then I want them to be:

What direction this SL is taking depends really on what this SL was actually about.

1. Showing the weaknesses of the relationship - Underlining all the problems, fixing them and bringing them back together stronger and healthier (healthier is reaching, that was never in the promise of the SL, but we can hope)

OR

2. Facilitating the robecca baby, adding a legacy character3. YIKES, 1. + 2. 

The negativity steams mostly from the fact, that this SL burned us over and over again. Robert promised six months he wouldn’t cheat. ED went out if their way linking cheating directly to his bisexuality (It was not “Robert, we were an affaire, you already cheated on Chrissie with me and she was all you wanted! And you cheated on Katie!” it was “Just because I am bi, doesn’t mean I am gonna cheat on you” “No one else comes close” and all that)

Then the cheating happened in the LEAST “I want to cheat and can’t help myself”-way possible. Which is odd in itself, cause this is not about Robert cheating? But about Robert using people? Why add the baby? A direct consequence to his infertility? And make this the main focus of everything?

When the fandom was raging and angry about the ruined bi-rep… all we got was “yeah that’s Robert’s character… he is despicable since birth” “him cheating had nothing to do with being bi” “we agreed that it’s now the time for Robert to cheat on his partner” (I don’t have the original quotes, but this is the gist of it)

And of course she got pregnant, and the first time she even EVER mentioned she was thinking of wanting a child, was after the ONS, which is already pretty horrible, considering, she was most likely brought in to be their incubator. (They could have made her baby friendly from the start, to idk add this aspect to her character, but no?)  Then ED retconned the first abortion, to make sure she stays pregnant, caused by trauma, that old!Robert inflicted on her. 

Everything back then felt so manipulative and awful to watch. And ED was silent, we didn’t get any interviews, where this was supposed to be going… So this horror co-parenting scenario was born in the fandom-head (xD) That Rebecca would be linked to them forever, that the baby is the constant reminder of the cheating (etc.)

IM then promised, that after the reveal we would all know where this SL was heading,... which we did… for one day, but then the bathroom scene happened, where Aaron quoted word for word the fandom fears back to us (Yay ED, thanks for keeping taps)

But still, ED went ahead with the pregnancy, cause this was all just to get Robert into the White orbit. And this is why I can totally understand, that people just… reject this baby. It was a tool from the start, it was this horrible plot device to split the couple up, that we were rooting for - in the most horrible and hurtful way: Including self harm, attempted drug use, violence, lying, wrench throwing.

Nothing about this baby at is core seems like it’s there to give Robert a child or even to face his issues with his father. (let his character grow) If you boil it down, it’s just there to open the doors to home farm and make sure to keep Robert and Aaron apart. (This might change after Sebastian is born)

And this is where its gets tricky.

Was ED always aiming for Nr.1.? Facing and dealing with their issues as a couple - This baby/The Situation has to go/ be resolved at the end of it, cause it’s not meant to be a price to be obtained for being good boys. The reunion, and getting back together and being a family (roblivion) again, was/is the price.

Robert could even still be the father in this scenario, just Rebecca would leave with the baby in the end, or who ever is still standing of the White family.

Was ED aiming for Nr.2, they can just about do anything. Bend everything the way they want to. They never actually wanted to fix anything between them, just add the baby. They could even have Rebecca after ALL the schemes come out, drive with her tiny car to the mill, get out, “Aaron, I can’t do this anymore, I can’t live with this child one more day, he is a reminder of all the lies Robert told!” *hand over Sebastian* *camera goes up* “Take care of him for me, I have to sort my own live out, DJing in Ibiza! See you never!!!” *gets in the car, drives away*

This is like… the worry that people have, that it doesn’t need to make sense, or respect the characters involved. Cause this SL already broke Rebecca… she is not her own character anymore. Even Victoria fans have trouble seeing where she is actually coming from in her overly supportive way towards the baby, never a second thought for her brother or oldest friend. 

1.+ 2. 

This mess, where they would deal with the their issues, reunite them, but ALSO let Robert end up with the child somehow. Is just such a horror, regarding Rebecca. She really was just the walking womb, adding some drama to be relevant until her exit and leaves her child behind. Why EVER she would do that?? But ED can be very surprising, if they want to be. 

PLUS it would just be so disrespectful to Aaron. It was like, the last hurt, that Gordon caused. The unresolved issues at the end of the abuse SL, lead to Kasim, lead to Aaron being in prison, lead to him being cheated on… and now he has to accept this baby in order to be with the man he wants to be.

And ED would play on the fact that Aaron is just this nice of a person. This big hearted person, that could accept this innocent life, take him in and raise him as his own, always reminded in the back of his head, that his husband cheated three weeks after marriage, cause he couldn’t take an argument, that they had, while Aaron was at his lowest.

In this scenario Robert would sort of… get his reward for finally sorting his head out and being less Robert. Which is also a very awful message. Give Robert a son and Aaron some more scars.

This is back to your question, what about Roberts growth? I have absolutely no clue. Aaron at the moment now, doesn’t want Robert back, cause of the baby. What has to change (assuming the baby will stay) ED had to change Aaron (urgh) reverting his growth, him putting someone else (Sebastian) above himself and his own wellbeing again (my personal worst case scenario). 

Nothing here shows any change in Robert (that is not directly linked to Aaron yet)... we sort of have a hint that Robert might get punished for what he does now, but how will he change and grow? Cause him accepting the baby and wanting to be a father is making sure that Aaron stays away (at least this is what ED shows us atm + (SPOILERS: Robert bonding with his son is happening very soon after the birth anyway)) What else can Robert do? Reject the baby? That is not what Aaron wants at all, he wants him to be a dad and involved... So something has to happen from outside, to fix this and push this into another direction.

I just hope this makes sense at the end, that all the wobbly things happening along the way where there for a reason, not just smokescreens to keep us watching and hoping for a better ending.

[drawerswithouthandles]

Watching the Chrissie and Robert scene tonight was really bittersweet for me. Comforting Chrissie before she died was Robert saying goodbye to her, and therefore saying goodbye to an old part of his life. He once loved her and that will never change. I don't know it just got me really sad when i watched it because Chrissie deserved better and so did Louise Marwood

I am glad they gave them (and us) this moment, even when it was really short.

Other blogs have already said it very well, Robert (or ED) did a hell of a job to play his relationship with Chrissie down over the last years. (”I was mainly with her because of the money” - which we all know is only partly true) I am glad we got that and hopefully we get a bit more aftermath, there will be a funeral for Chrissie. 

There were rumors that Louise wanted to leave much sooner. TBH I would have taken a well written aftermath over framing Andy any day - compared to this weird mess ED let her do this summer - including falling for her uncle? Letting Robert con her again? And I really try not to think that hard about it. 

But yeah, overall Chrissie would have deserved a better exit. But then again, hopefully we get a bit of an aftermath. Cause look at Adams Exit, it was well written, but the character is as good as forgotten, same as Finn. 

PLUS one of the really unfair things in these three years for her character was, that Chrissie never got satisfying revenge towards Robert. Breaking her trust, his betrayal and all that. And the writers have sort of... shifted that blame/guilt onto Roberts behavior towards Rebecca//Affaire retcon//Abortion Retcon, which also weakend the actual meaning of Chrobert as a pairing and how hard it really was for Robert to let go of Chrissie etc.  ED created NOW a long lasting consequence of Roberts actions (Seb), that Robert has to face and deal with, as some sort of belated “karma” - which doesn’t really work and feels very unsatisfying. 

[drawerswithouthandles]

and in a 'commited mature relationship' you don't cheat on your husband and get someone else pregnant everytime something goes wrong and yet... let's face it they're not exactly relationship goals

... yeah and you don’t go out and hit someone as soon as you have a lil fight. 

I know, ED messed up, when they battled Aarons and Roberts biggest flaws against each other. You just can’t compare violence and infidelity in this way... it sucks, it’s unfair to the characters. (One hurts someone else (Kasim) and the other one hurts someone else (Rebecca) and hurts your partner (Aaron))

 And right now we even have clunky consequences - Aaron earned up to his mistake, went to Prison, took spice, that was dropped, no consequences so far - Robert earned up to his mistake, almost lost Aaron, but even after he “faced” his consequences, Rebecca is STILL pregnant. This is what I don’t get, cause, the pregnancy before was a tool to push Robert and now it’s become something to make Aaron suffer and that sucks. (maybe the jail time was supposed to be seen as Roberts suffering? Is that the parallel?) 

And we still haven’t seen ANYTHING on screen that suggests Robert might act differently next time (expect the guilt, but he didn’t care about guilt, when he thought Aaron had broken up with him and got drunk and slept with Rebecca in the first place)

We see it with Aaron now, he is changing (no self harm/ talking to his councilor) He tries to stay cool and not act out every time he is provoked. (smol yay) We will see how well this holds together in the upcoming weeks -__-’’

We are in this mess of a SL, cause ED wants them to grow for each other and I will give them the chance. 

BUT even then, this is Aarons most mature and most committed relationship so far and Roberts as well. Fuck yeah he cheated on him, and he is on very thin ice for me xD But Robert cheated on all his partners. Hell, he cheated on Chrissie (have you seen Chrissie??? Who would cheat on her XDD + the money and lifestyle) and Katie - Katie was his first Aaron, didn’t stop him then and he never felt any guilt back then. Cause sex is nothing that big to Robert.

I am glad they went out of their way to show how much this mistake is messing with Robert - And he still tries to spin the whole “let’s forget it and move on”-thing - but the Baby it the thing that keeps his mistake visible, hopefully until ED has dealt with their issues enough... cause when the baby stays... then this was nothing more, then as SUPER offensive way to give a m/m couple a child, like we’ve seen on tons of different soaps - all the suffering, Aaron going to jail, The SL since SSW, throwing bisexual representation under the bus, throwing female-health under the bus, abortion shaming - just to get a baby *urgh* please ED don’t go there.

This is a soap, please don’t take ANY relationship on ED as “goal” O_O!!!

[drawerswithouthandles]

rational discussions about Emmerdale <3

[drawerswithouthandles]

Ik this sounds stupid but i find it so hard to see young Robert (Christopher smith is that his name) and current Robert- Ryan Hawley aka love of my life- as the same person. Idk why but i find it so hard to see them as the same person with the same past and same memories, i think because they're different actors. Idk it really gets me!

Hiya Nonny,

I get that, but you have to remember, that ED has also evolved and sort of... became another show over the years? So it’s totally fine to ‘not’ connect with character’s pasts. Like Jimmy was much tougher back in the day, then he is today etc. 

And ED’s topics have changed a lot, I watched an episode from the 90′s where the main topic of conversation was a misplaced animal food order (or something) Imagine that today x’D Like every character was talking about that animal food XD

And the writing doesn’t make it easier? I mean the rare occasion, that Characters even remember their past is just not that often. 

We had a lot of fun in the fandom, when people dug up Robert Sugden’s love for an Owl xD and It will just NEVER happen that Robert just randomly says “By the way, I had a ‘pet owl’ as a child” Cause that’s not the type of show Emmerdale is, it goes on and faces very much into the future, with some references to the past, when the plot calls for it. (Like yesterday, when Liv stole the alcohol from the van, was very much a scene from Teen!Aarons times) 

If it helps, you are really not alone there, and there are also people where it’s the other way around - Fans who never connected to Roberts recast and him being written like a 2D villain for over a year after his return etc.