I love takes like these because it proves they never read the series. Nothing about this is Targaryen-centric, it is very much a summary of Westerosi patriarchal feudalism except for the dragons.
Tywin is a callous opportunist, willing to sacrifice his daughter on the altar of his own ambition and selling her off to the highest bidder, a man who abuse her and repeatedly raped and beat her. He would have married her off again despite Cersei begging him to not force her to do it, he would have sequestered her at Casterly Rock, taking her piece off the board until he found something useful for him. Did OP read Cersei’s famous monologue during the Battle of the Blackwater in ACOK, “we were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently” ?
Rohanne Webber (Cersei’s great-grandmother) became a widow for the first time at the age of ten, at age thirteen, she was married again to a fifty-five-year-old man, who soon die, and six months after his death, she gave birth to their son, who was weak and died within three days. Her third husband choked to death on a chicken bone, while her fourth husband died of the Great Spring Sickness. Rohanne bore a daughter but the girl did not live a year. She was married and widowed four times before age twenty-five.
Hoster Tully tricked Lysa into aborting her child with moon tea because of his classism and hastily married her off to Jon Arryn, a pedophile who was decades older than her, to secure an alliance that would help them win Robert’s Rebellion. She suffers countless miscarriages and stillbirths, and nothing is done to make Lysa adjust to her new life away from her home and family and people.
In spite of Dorne allowing gender neutral succession, Arianne Martell, who should be learning how to rule properly, is reduced to “feasts and frolics, and the entertainment of distinguished guests”, has been shuttled from suitor to suitor as well, treated as a pawn by her father, who hided the truth from his daughter for years and trusted his son more.
The Freys are basically a case study in a family that has rotted from the inside out because of their succession obsession. Being the next lord/lady of the Twins is all-consuming to the point where we get a rather sad insight into the Frey style of family relations, where you cannot trust anyone. Family members should be the people you can trust the most, ideally, but for the Freys “relative” is just another word for “threat”.
Joffrey Baratheon claims the Iron Throne as Robert Baratheon’s eldest son. His uncle, Stannis, claims Robert’s children are all bastards, making him, the first of Robert’s younger brothers, the real heir. Renly is younger than Stannis, but claims the Iron Throne anyway. Stannis goes so far as resorting to dark magic to murder his brother and thus becoming a kinslayer, tries to sacrifice Edric Storm, his twelve years son nephew, and will burn his daughter alive.
The way so many people talk about Targaryens regarding their foreignness, and Valyria in general, genuinely makes me uncomfortable. Sentiments like that tend not to stop with one fictional example.
I was answering an ask about Daemon and Alyssa and how people don't credit the Targs with having boundaries on incest like the ancient royal Egyptians had, as much as noble/royal Europeans had boundaries on their own incest of cousins and uncle-nieces/nephews-aunts. I accidentally deleted it. So the person who sent it, plz send it again if you want, I'm sorry!
But yes, xenophobia from both Westerosi and real life people explained away with slavery is stupid, bc the Westerosi and real life xenophobist(?) people don't Other people based on actual morals (Othering is not the Othering party having "good" morals, either but abt trying to maintain a certain "native" status one has in one's own society & that's another thing) or out of an anti-slavery thing but because they do not worship the Seven or come from their specific Seven worshipping groups.
Anyway, point was that people think that bc this group doesn't have the exact same boundaries on a similar thing that happens within a particular society, than the (brown/not the "right" kind of "white", bc that's how racialized readers look at things) society is just more fallible towards the extremest form of that phenomenon. Okay, sure.
It's also to do with how they male gazed Alyssa, but that deleted ask had all the stuff about how Alyssa is male gazed.
NVM--I didn't delete the post, HERE it is...look I didn't have much sleep these few days.
antis are obsessed with nettles not being valyrian because they think grrm created her to "disprove valyrian supremacy" and that you don't need to be valyrian to ride a dragon and like. my dudes. it is super obvious she was targ/valyrian, the maesters were just too racist to think a brown girl could have valyrian blood. grrm is not writing about how akshully this crazy white family made everyone think only THEY could control dragons when really anyone can do it!!! they hate fantasy so much lol.
As they were very racist in consideration over whether or not Daemon'd sleep with her or find her attractive.
The way some of these anti-targ Andal-FM stans talk about how their faves should get everything they think is "cool" about targs but that the targs don't "deserve"... it has cultural appropriation adjacent vibes.
Oh, definitely! Comes from the hatred of Dany, they want anyone but her to "make use" of these "medieval nuclear weapons" bc apparently the people who have JUST got out of a war between several great houses WITHOUT the Targs being the cause or triggers in any way are great guardians of dragons...
Anyway, they simply despise the idea of these "normies" being outshines by who they perceive as perfect whity colonizers who perform colonizing better than their normie whities. That and when it comes to whiteness, whiteness is by "socialized" nature a parasitical state that will always reframe its taking of certain behaviors, practices, etc. from certain groups--esp those they actually colonized--as anything else innocuous or try to divert. When really it's about using the native populations' cultural resources to both erase them and entrench themselves better into the enviroment they are claiming...which the Targs didn't do to the Westerosi Andal-FMs. Grinds their gears that they can't identify themselves with the victimhood that actually colonized people experienced in this particalur fiction.
Anti Targaryen crowd : "OMG Targaryen stans are such bullies when we critique their faves (i.e. Daenerys and Rhaenyra). They don't wat to hear different opinions about them, they just want to start a fight! Also Mirri did nothing wrong!! Darnerys had no right to kill Mirri for murdering her child!! He was bad seed anyway. And Alicent is just a poor victim, Targaryens were a disease that had to be wiped out. #team green"
Yeah, I wonder why people call this takes stupid and gross. 🙃
“The Blacks are a bit like the Targaryens of the Harry Potter universe. They are a bunch of elitists, drunk with power, totally inbred.”
When I hear this kind of stuff, I lose my faith in the humanity of having reading comprehension...
Comparing the Targaryens to the Blacks... The Targaryens who married much more outside their house than inside. Elitists among whom was Daemon Targaryen, loved by the people because he brought order and security to the streets. The one who spent much more of his time outside the palace and the court, called prince of the city.
In fact, this description of a power-drunk and elitist inbred corresponds much more to House Lannister than anything else...
@darklinaforever
Yeah, well. What can we do? If they wish to demonize the Targs, claim feudalism is bad, yet refuse to consider how if the Targs are bad so are their favs, can we really do much other than point out how dumb they are?
If Rhaenyra wasn’t a Targaryen, people would have no problem calling her incompetent, stupid, paranoid, hating her for being spoiled, feminine and refined, and shipping Daemon with GNC Nettles, a dark-skinned, foul-mouthed, filthy, and clever bastard peasant girl who managed to tame a dragon and rode into battle (unlike Rhaenyra).
Rhaenyra was foolish and cruel when it came to her ruling decisions. Instead of sending Joffrey into the field, utilizing his young dragon’s quick speed for reconnaissance against the fled Hightower-Targaryens (or even sending Addam Velaryon to do so and leaving Joffrey as the rider in the Dragonpit), Rhaenyra instead planned a lavish induction ceremony to name him Prince of Dragonstone (using the city’s precious resources strained by war and winter for a party, exactly like Sansa in TWOW, and flaunting her obviously bastard son as the center of it). Instead of offering the Green lords, including the leaderless and ironborn-harried Lannisters, pardons to end the war, Rhaenyra openly awaited the day she could display the heads of the Green leaders as traitors, ensuring that the pro-Green lords would never surrender to her. Convinced that all her new dragonriders were determined to betray her Rhaenyra ordered the arrest of the loyal Addam Velaryon, heir and probable son of Corlys; the decision lost her not simply a dragon and dragonrider, but her most powerful lordly ally and Hand, half her army and her entire remaining naval force. Having concluded that Nettles and Daemon had become romantically involved, Rhaenyra ordered Lord Mooton to execute her while she and Daemon rested at Maidenpool, ordering her bannerman to murder a guest (in defiance of anciently and sacredly held guest right), an innocent (in defiance of the Father’s justice), and a young woman (in defiance of the rules of chivalry). It’s only half a joke to call Rhaenyra “Maegor with teats”; Maegor had fallen specifically because, through his cruelty and anti-Faith policies, he had lost the respect and fealty of lords and smallfolk alike, and Rhaenyra did the same.
Alicent did not force her to make these decisions. Neither did Aegon II. Rhaenyra was a dumb and a cruel woman on her own merits. Let’s hold her accountable and take responsibility of her actions. Unprepared to rule, convinced that her bloodline and her father’s decree alone were sufficient to ensure her rule would not be challenged, Rhaenyra failed to assert herself in the admittedly patriarchal society of Westeros. Vindictive to her enemies and foolish to her allies, Rhaenyra was simply a poor queen.
Anon responding to this post and those it links.
*EDIT (5/31/24): Rhaenyra suffers from really bad sexist writing on GRRM's, not just the maesters', part and it undermines his own point.* And no, she doesn't need to be necessarily "moral" like Dany to be a deserving ruler for what happens to her/her kids to be wrong. Don't let GRRM's bad pathologizing motherhood nor your own possible biases deter you from the seeing & valuing the point he's trying clumsily to make!
The point of her story was to highlight how no matter how good or evil or morally ambiguous a person you are, if you are female, you are subject to losing a power men are just granted. Or usurped. And this is inherently wrong. Rhaenyra chose to go to war rather than give up. This is valuable, and it is the point. Visenya was not thinking "for the realm" or for the benefit of smallfolk or outside of her family, yet she as so many fans bc she was not passive or restricted by "madness". She has less sexist writing.*
A)
1.
Guiding you to this post.
(But if you're able: POST #1, POST #2, POST #3, POST #4, POST #5, POST #6, POST #7, POST #8 – esp Section B, C, & D too)
2.
You: "Instead of sending Joffrey into the field, utilizing his young dragon’s quick speed for reconnaissance against the fled Hightower-Targaryens (or even sending Addam Velaryon to do so and leaving Joffrey as the rider in the Dragonpit), Rhaenyra instead planned a lavish induction ceremony to name him Prince of Dragonstone (using the city’s precious resources strained by war and winter for a party, exactly like Sansa in TWOW, and flaunting her obviously bastard son as the center of it)."
So Rhaenyra was "selfish and cruel" for NOT sending her single-digit-aged son out on a dangerous mission (even reconaissance can and have gone wrong) after his older brother Lucerys had already been killed on a diplomatic mission by his own blood purist, entitled uncle.....anon, I mean this respectfully--are you okay?
"or Addam Velaryon"
No matter the person on this reconnaissance mission, NO ONE KNOWS WHERE AEGON AND HIS KIDS WENT BESIDES THE HIDDEN LARYS!
They went in different directions and Larys specifically does this to divide Rhaenyra's riders/any lookers she sends and make it that much more difficult for her to be assured of her kids and her own safety from any incoming green invaders. To stretch her resources thinner than they already are, which include dragonriders. going after them on dragonback is more of a waste of time and opens her up more to already-mentioned invaders. Try again, let's see what you can come up with that is so much better than what she did already? (sending people after them assumedly on horseback but are not her actual prime defenders or children).
"flaunting her obviously bastard son"
And what would you have her do? Stow away her kid like a bad secret after years of treating him as if he was a person above being a possible bastard? Treating her own son humanely instead of how Alicent would treat any of Aegon and Aemond's bastard kids? Be like a Jaehaerys I 2.0 and abuse/neglect her own kids? Anon, plz, after I block you, stfu. And don't have children or babysit.
"Rhaenyra instead planned a lavish induction ceremony to name him Prince of Dragonstone (using the city’s precious resources strained by war and winter for a party"
Anon speaks of this [at the end] ("Rhaenyra Triumphant"):
**[12/7/23] And Aegon was building two massive GOLD statues of his dead brothers AFTER he killed Rhaenyra and went back to an even more impoverished KL. This is the same Aegon who made a party out of Luke's death when Aemond came back from Storm's End, has always been drunk (leader material?), SAd maids, raped a 12 yr old, ignored his duties in his contemplating his marriage to that Baratheon girl...**
No, as I already said, not all that wise--or really I will correct myself--altruistic. Nor does it reveal her to be the worst or deviant from her crop, so to speak. (Nor was it winter in the "south"/KL until Aegon III's first years of reign.) It is likely she:
felt that while there was no moneys from the royal coffers, she herself would still have money from her time at Dragonstone
Corlys might have been able to lend some money...Joffrey is still his grandson who he would have continued to be aligned with/use for his own ambitions as that's the whole reason why he allowed a Targaryen-Velaryon marriage b/t her and Laenor
there was still enough food and articles of clothing left behind in the castle's reserves for a party and show of power to solidify her and her sons' places to courtiers aka, the nobles both supporting her and those who might not...after all it is the nobles who have enabled her usurpation -> it's when she had to flee KL that she actually had to sell her crown and thus indicating some lack of private funds, not before
It's not as if she and her sons were poor as heck BEFORE she had to flee KL. Yes, she should have thought more about how the smallfolk viewed her as well, and to that, I'd also say to place any other person in her family in her position and they'd do the same. Alicent only wouldn't because she had already crowned Aegon. BUT WARS ARE EXPENSIVE, and after she runs out of her own private funds--even if she had just gave it up getting food for the KL commoners:
she would have the same problem as before after she gave her remaining private funds for food: no money to continue feeding them, esp with what I am about to say....
Aemond burned down one of the major suppliers of food in Westeros' "south" regions: the riverlands and esp their farmer's villages and fields....(so we are blaming rhaenyra for doing what many people would have done anyway, and for something her brother did that he didn't have to do? Sure, Rhaenyra is THE bad guy here)
the Tyrells remained neutral in the bulk of the war because their lord was a child (the Reach seems the number one supplier of grains, vegetables, and especially fruits) and the Hightowers were their "neighbors" who probably would have also tried to block their hypothetical efforts to send food and supplies to Rhaenyra in KL. Even if the Tyrells didn't declare neutrality and fought for her or tried to support her and tried to send food and supplies to her AND even demanded monetary compensation for some reason -- if Rhaenyra gave up her Dragonstone $ to feed the KLers, she'd have no way to pay the Tyrells declared for her and thus no way to feed the commoners. And whether or not the Tyrells demanded compensation, again, the Hightowers would go after them or try to block their wagons of food and supplies.
Do you think she wouldn't have a lavish coronation or investiture with all the ceremonies for Aegon if there was s full-on winter happening so as to take power from Rhaenyra? If not, you're joking yourself, because the whole point of her leaving Viserys' body to rot and pressing the council to name Aegon was to steal time from Rhaenyra and give Aegon the seeming legitimacy right to the throne. When Alicent had the opportunity, she flaunted Meleys' head in the streets of KL, causing several crowd members to try to flee for the gates in fear of retaliation:
This was also a display of dominance to legitimize Aegon's rule in the eyes of a certain public. It tipped the scales of public confidence in Aegon's ability to protect them against the greens, esp after Aegon almost died and was unable to perform his everyday--much less military--duties when he got his disabling burns, unable to get out of bed and having to let Aemond become his Prince Regent. There was an immediate effect proving my point.
Sure, Alicent had more money to expend, a possible surplus, that Rhaenyra did not but bc of those circumstances, she neither had the need to hold back on public displays. And in lieu of the usual highborn-aristocratic ignoring smallfolk needs, she neither had the intent nor concern for any smallfolk needs. If we want to talk about morals or ethics, she'd always prioritize her son's and factions' ambitions or maintenance of position over them...remember that she never performed any sort of noteworthy enough deed for the smallfolk for it to be even recorded in any text. And if we want to talk about strategy, well...she scared the commoners so much she had to lock the gates to prevent the hysteria and movement of bodies from getting to a point that could have gotten really out of hand. Of course, good that she got those gates closed, but displaying the dragon head knowing as if this would bring some the same sort of assurance to KLers as it probably did to her in the same ways and levels was not...wise so much as an aristocratic habit with negative consequences.
So again, why is Rhaenyra made to be the worst person of this bunch when she herself decides to quickly name her oldest remaining son her heir and publicly so, even more so because he is suspected as a bastard so she could give him a stronger claim.
3.
You: "Instead of offering the Green lords, including the leaderless and ironborn-harried Lannisters, pardons to end the war, Rhaenyra openly awaited the day she could display the heads of the Green leaders as traitors, ensuring that the pro-Green lords would never surrender to her."
**[5/31/24] This is what anon refers to ("Rhaenyra Triumphant"):
In this event, Rhaenyra is deliberating with her war council the next course of action for not the green supporters, but her brothers.
Corlys is the one who says they should pardon every single one, including Rhaenyra's brothers who both were offered terms of surrender and safety but both flouted them with Aemond killing her son and Aegon--2x--calling for her head and calling her a "whore". Reminvder, Aemond killed Lucerys and Aegon threw a feast for it BEFORE Blood & Cheese. Nah, they were never going to give up even before Aegon's son, Jaehaerys', death.
Another reminder, Jaehaerys I let go one of the men who helped Maegor, and Alaric Stark resented him for it for a long time since the same guy killed his older brother or was responsible for it in a coup. This man, , was also sent to the Wall, similar to Corlys' suggestion...when he should have been killed bc he repeated his treacherous actions. With the context of a war the couple still had to fight, it's not a surprise nor totally unjustified that they both said they couldn't spare traitors. HOWEVER:
DAEMON is the one to say they should go full scorched earth, total annihilation, saying they should destroy all the Lannisters, Baratheons, etc:
“And what of my half-brothers?” Rhaenyra demanded, when the Sea Snake put this plan before her. “What of this false king Aegon, and the kinslayer Aemond? Would you have me pardon them as well, they who stole my throne and slew my sons?”
“Spare them, and send them to the Wall,” Lord Corlys answered.
“Let them take the black and live out their lives as men of the Night’s Watch, bound by sacred vows.”
“What are vows to oathbreakers?” Queen Rhaenyra demanded. “Their vows did not trouble them when they took my throne.”
Prince Daemon echoed the queen’s misgivings. Giving pardons to rebels and traitors only sowed the seeds for fresh rebellions, he insisted. “The war will end when the heads of the traitors are mounted on spikes above the King’s Gate, and not before.” Aegon II would be found in time, “hiding under some rock,” but they could and should bring the war to Aemond and Daeron. The Lannisters and Baratheons should be destroyed as well, so their lands and castles might be given to men who had proved more loyal. Grant Storm’s End to Ulf White and Casterly Rock to Hard Hugh Hammer, the prince proposed…to the horror of the Sea Snake. “Half the lords of Westeros will turn against us if we are so cruel as to destroy two such ancient and noble houses,” Lord Corlys said.
Not Rhaenyra, the one who makes the final decision. RHAENYRA EXPRESSLY DECIDES [above pics]:
Rhaenyra decided to steer a middle course. She would send envoys to Storm’s End and Casterly Rock, offering fair terms and pardons after she had put an end to the usurper’s brothers, who were in the field against her. “Once they are dead, the rest will bend the knee. Slay their dragons, that I might mount their heads upon the walls of my throne room. Let men look upon them in the years to come, that they might know the cost of treason.”
So anon is misinforming. She said to kill her brothers (one a kinslayer and the other the guy who usurped her and threw a party celebrating Lucerys' death), not the lords who supported them...unless they decided to keep fighting. She is doing exactly what anon says she is not doing!
This is another instance, too, where Rhaenyra shows a will that is not just subservient to Daemon, btw.
And Daeron nor his uncle, Lord Ormund Hightower were going to give up bc both had a direct interest in Aegon being king. More than anyone else! Why? Because this was their opportunity to support their closest blood (Otto, Ormund's uncle and thus Aegon's first cousin once removed) to have influence from the throne itself. The Hightowers would this have the most power over every other Green supporting lord, esp since the Tyrells were sitting out for their own protection with their lord just being a baby...Again, read the pics!**
The greens were the ones who usurped her in the first place and by how they took the funds from the royal treasury in order to weaken her for future invasion, I'd say that they were determined to win or die. Aemond would never go down without a fight, mother or not, Aegon had sworn to kill Rhaenyra after she crowned herself twice AND received multiple burns from his attempts to actually fight. After Helaena's death, I doubt Alicent would ever want Rhaenyra alive (again, if Alicent hadn't usurped Rhaenyra and turned her kids against her, her kids and grandkids would all be still alive bc what lord can seriously destroy or threaten the Targs with all their dragons outnumbering those the first 3 conquerors had?! And no, Daemon wouldn't do shit because he only ever targeted a green after Luke died He never initiated a fight, and seemed to just ignore them before Viserys died. Very confident in his own skills).
And once more, Rhaenyra already offered her siblings the chance to surrender, blaming Alicent and Otto for their treachery. Even her brothers. The belief that Daemon would go against her completely comes from the belief that he did not recognize her authority, follow her lead, or have a very strong or respect-full bond with her, and honestly there is no evidence nor suggestion of such a thing.
Otto is the one to offer Dalton Greyjoy a seat as master of ships on the council, the greens basically the ones first to want and invite him to join the war:
("The Blacks and the Greens")
HERE is a post on the greens, the blacks, and Dalton Greyjoy. Otto was the one to think of inviting the ironborn to fight for the greens. If the greens hadn't invited Dalton to join the Lannisters would be less aggrieved. And if the Lannisters didn't want to be so exposed to the ironborn, they either shouldn't exist (bc the ironnborn are going to be themselves regardless of who rules or who asks them over, really, but the invitation made the invasions number more than they would have been by directing Dalton's interests and giving it license) or they should have not joined the greens in usurping Rhaenyra in the first place. So sad, too bad.
**[5/31/24]
leaderless and ironborn-harried Lannisters
Who said they were leaderless? Is Joanna Lannister not enough of a leader for you? She was actively leading armies in the official name of her child-son! And she was fighting against the ironborn that not only Rhaenyra, but the greens enlisted....what time would Joanna have to come to Rhaenyra's defense or Aegon's defense when Joanna couldn't even ensure her own lands defense.**
You: "It’s only half a joke to call Rhaenyra “Maegor with teats”; Maegor had fallen specifically because, through his cruelty and anti-Faith policies, he had lost the respect and fealty of lords and smallfolk alike, and Rhaenyra did the same."
Rhaenyra gets this moniker not because she was actually cruel for no reason other than to be cruel and careless or is taking unnecessary supplies when she already has enough herself (ahem, The Hightower lord who allowed jis army to clear Lady Merryweather's castle even after they got her bid of support just before they go to Tumbleton). She gets it because the coffers, again, are empty and taxed the Kinglanders for many exports, imports, and executions to refill it. Which the greens stole and dispersed much as they did Aegon and his kids. Please, come up with a better way for Rhaenyra to refill these coffers, anon. I mean, I won't be waiting because next time you try to send me something about this, I'm ignoring it and blocking you, but you have that option elsewhere. Since apparently you, under the exact same conditions she was under PLUS having lost two kids, would still be an "excellent" and clearheaded leader. Maybe ask a scientist to make a dimension-travel machine so you can prove it. Or ask Jaehaerys I what he would do if he had no money and was tasked to refill it (he never had this problem, ever), since he's seen as the most intelligent ruler Westeros had by both people in text and most of the vocal fandom.
Yes, it put a lot of pressure on Kingslanders, these taxes and probably the party. But how did this all begin? Did it really need to get here, but for the green's ambitious misogyny? Again, I refute all Daemon-kills-greens and lords-are-actual-threat claims.
You: "Convinced that all her new dragonriders were determined to betray her Rhaenyra ordered the arrest of the loyal Addam Velaryon, heir and probable son of Corlys; the decision lost her not simply a dragon and dragonrider, but her most powerful lordly ally and Hand, half her army and her entire remaining naval force."
I wonder when I ever stated that this wasn't a mistake, mistrusting her own riders after a couple betrayed her? I both see it that way and can see how, if we had a POV, it would be easy to see her twisted rationale to be that the rest of the bastards are as ambitious as Ulf and Hugh, eager to leave behind bastardry with their own castles. Again, twisted and shows she didn't know these others well enough for her to be spitting such things, but I'm also not going to ignore that it's more than likely that she never would have been here, paranoid and vicious if misogyny didn't exist.
You: "Unprepared to rule, convinced that her bloodline and her father’s decree alone were sufficient to ensure her rule would not be challenged, Rhaenyra failed to assert herself in the admittedly patriarchal society of Westeros."
Again, I don't think she'd be a horrible ruler like Aegon would have been (he does not face misogyny or any sort of discrimination and never will, so what's his excuse?!) if she hadn't been usurped. Mediocre maybe, but not terrible. She became tyrannical, she wasn't always.
By your way, Rhaenyra's so-so rule as a Queen is equal to mediocre kings and male heirs' rule in terms of societal acceptance and assessment. And according to you, her paranoia and how it came to be is exactly the same as how male King's or heirs' paranoia, cruelty, etc developed (let's say Aerys II and Aegon IV) who do not come up against the already hostile-to-women environment and ploy of ambitious lords sing said misogyny). Okay sure.
B)
You: "Rhaenyra was foolish and cruel when it came to her ruling decisions." [your basic argument, repeated over and over]
If you hate Rhaenyra for weaponizing misogynoir/being racist and sexist against Nettles, you're valid and correct for hating her. Her past doesn't erase those things. But to act as if her past also means nothing, doesn't tell us anything or really matter as to how she became a tyrant is ridiculous, self-contradictory, and pointless because you read the text and now you wish to ignore the plot altogether?! To act as if she is so different from everyone around her, morally deviant enough from everyone else of her time to be claimed as "The Evil" before her retaking King's Landing is blind-talk.
And look, it's not anyone's fault but your own that you can't see the true evil(s) in the ASoIaF world/story are not the Targaryens -> the complicated but passionate members and their dragons. You had the wrong idea if you think you're going to get me to concede on that. The Targs rather reveal everything wrong with Andal/FM patriarchal feudalism and its prioritization of power for power's sake by becoming its thematic mirror (what happens when feudal lords have dragons?!), yet still, even producing a few members who see the wrongs and actually try to fix them. More than what any other Andal/FM descent lord/lady has tried to do for the last thousands of years.
To hate and assign blame to the Targs (& Rhaenyra) for everything that makes the Andal-FM Westerosi society wrong or chaotic when:
Andal-FM society's many injustices and inherent, systematic flaws stem from their own development before the Targs ever came to Westeros. While the Targs assimilated in order to stay in power and definitely assimilated/adopted many Andal-FM customs & practices instead of working to change/abolish them in each generation for more altruistic purposes, the Targs are also not the lords' parents no matter the feudal idea of being a "model" to your subjects. If this system has the monarch and nobles share power (as happens in a feudal monarchy), then the responsibility for change also rests on the lords themselves. And there are limits to what the lords are willing to sacrifice or risk to stay in said power. The Targs are not more nor less evil than those lords for acting similarly.
the other side of the hate towards the Targs is their supposed refusal to "respect" those same laws and customs towards succession, gender roles, behavior, etc or follow them to the letter to be "better" rulers. So which is it? The Targs are the enemy of the good and poor, vulnerable Andal-FM Westerosi nobles and smallfolk (argument of them being too disrespectful and culture-destroying colonizers/tyrants) -- OR -- are they not progressive enough to lead the Andal-FM Westerosi into a better world? (argument of them being a plague on Westerosi)
this is a feudal, monarchist society and Andal-Westerosi are not exempt from trying for power and being violent, even having tried in the past to marry into the Targ household to have dragons themselves (Lannisters and Rhaena). The Targs themselves can be and have been manipulated by other house members.
some have tried to argue with me that Alicent is a better ruler/queen for Westeros. Alicent. Alicent, who herself comes from a background that wishes to subjugate anyone who is not legitimate, pale, aristocratic and male. Alicent, who is a heavy-duty blood purist who never looked out for other women. Not a one. Never herself pushed for policies making any person's life better. Even seizes power from another woman entirely for herself and her house's patriarchal prestige and power by using the status of her kids being Targ scions and dragonriders themselves to obtain more power. Apparently, because Alicent is more strategic, her traditionalist-Faith-driven misogyny and proven attempts to suppress female autonomy don't matter in the assessment of her leadership, but it definitely matters for Rhaenyra (the person Alicent purposefully targets) ! Same for her kids, but even worse as all are mentally checked out, more entitled, actually violent and rapists for no reason, or too lazy.
It's not about Targness and people loving Targs, it's just that the Targs incidentally happen to be the people in power that everyone else wishes to borrow or steal power from.
No matter who Rhaenyra was before King's Landing or after, Rhaenyra was "vulnerable" to this due to her gender's inequitable access to higher positions of power in Westeros. Because it was never about her character for the lords/the greens/Alicent, it was about her gender.
You try a person long enough, they are more likely (not definitely, LIKELY) to bite back or use any chance to gain back power. Though like Alicent, Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron in performing blood purist hate (or at the very least using blood purity) Rhaenyra was never a tyrant before King's Landing and the greens' usurpation, nor was she without self-control nor untrusting even with her being impatient and impulsive.
*EDIT* (8/21/23):
THIS is a great post by @mononijikayu about medieval queens, female rulers, the history of how women in leadership positions were made and seen as threats to the very structure of social "order", and contextualizing Rhaenyra thru Empress Matilda. I didn't even know about Matilda's husband being comparable to Rhaneyra's Daemon! PLZ READ!!!!
Excerpt:
just as much, along with these fictitious portrayals, more lies are depicted. these women are considered vixens that cause havoc to men by shifting them into desires and danger. through the written word, we see how women are cast in roles of villains in men’s lives. it is because by their conclusive thoughts, women are the only creatures that are able to turn ‘good honorable men’ into despicable creatures who do shameful, deplorable acts for the sake of women’s pleasures.
[...]
it is within this narrative that ancient chroniclers declare that women were in fact the doom of men. if they were not able to control the dangers posed by the wiles of women, then the foundations of the mighty society they had built would be up in flames.
[...]
as i mentioned, these factors of community are written down and preserved. and with that, the example of the ancients were the foundations by which medieval society built itself. the same concepts continued to cause the same issue within society and that was the exclusion of women from participating in the bigger picture of community and state, much so with governing states in their own right—without judgment or disapproval.
