haven't watched the new season of hotd for as many reasons as you can imagine, only having seen clips here and there, and listened to everyone's takes and commentary on how this show has gotten so fucked. today i decided to tune in for once and Ryan Condal genuinely needs to be locked up 💀💀💀 I hate this show so bad. WHY...like WHY?!
Cause something something bad writing. The man's previous writing credits include that goddawful 2015 Hercules movie and Rampage (both b movies starring the Rock)
Couple that with studio pressure, budgetary constraints and you get this mess; cheap, fanservice, designed to pander to audiences, shock them and produce gifs and tiktok soundbites.
I'm praying AKOTSK doesn't go down the same route but I'm prepared for anything tbh
i am once again begging lovers of the incest trope who say "well if you don't like incest, you shouldn't read the books" to shut. up. INCEST IS JUST A FRACTION OF WHAT'S INCLUDED IN THE GIANT WORLD THAT IS ASOIAF.
sigh. I don't care if people like or enjoy the incest trope, my problem relies in the fact that if you like the trope but think others who don't like incest shouldn't be reading the series and enjoy it, you're weird. that's just one theme in a world that explores several themes in the series. it just frustrates me.
I understand you, anon.
People should read whatever they enjoy without attacking one another over books. Incest is indeed only one element of an enormous, complicated world, and nobody has to like every theme in ASOIAF to appreciate the series.
So many of your asks lately have just been anons bodyshaming the actors. This fandom is toxic enough already. If you don't like a character that's fine. You don't need to degrade someone's looks.
Most of those comments came from the same obsessive Alysmond anon who has been harassing me for weeks and attacking Phia for no apparent reason.
Everyone else has generally been lovely, and we have been joking around without insulting the actors’ appearances. So I am not sure what pattern you think you are seeing here, anon.
sometimes i really do hate engaging with asoiaf fandom discourse on tiktok because why did a mutual big creator of mine just block me for saying things I disliked about the Mad King play?
so here we go. yes I do think Rhaegar is stupid! I think the whole “a dragon dream in the middle of battle is the only reason he was beat” thing is stupid. i think the over justification of R+L=J and trying to shoehorn Elia in on everything is stupid, not “female empowerment”. I almost hate the portrayal of Rhaella and the inevitable “Mad Dany” foreshadowing they tired to slip in more. if your only response is to tell people they didn’t read the books and block them, hate to say i’ve played that game before! you need to just say you don’t have the bandwidth to engage in the conversation and take some time offline.
as for arguments “it’s all in the text!” i’ve yet to see ONE person show me ANYWHERE in the books (which i’ve read multiple times myself) where it’s stated or implied Elia is “madly in love” with Ashara Dayne. or where Rhaella, who is remembered and thought of fondly by Jamie and other characters in their pov in the books, is insane, abusive, and arguably worse than Aerys? either you want to admit it or not: the play is semi canon for a reason, because its foundations are in the show with details from the books added in to flesh out the story.
in my opinion the play was fan service. nothing about it surprised me, none of the “theories” or expanded details, and not am i upset about it because every over arching point (R+L=J, Ashara and Brandon, Lyanna being a greenseer and the KOTLT, etc) was already considered to be or will be canon due to how heavily implied in the books (or outright confirmed in show). everything else was a way to overly justify the events that take place and characters or to retcon a more proactive part in the story. (Arthur Dayne randomly being shown to have survived??)
last thing i will say is this
fandoms are toxic. this asoiaf fandom is probably the most toxic fandom i’ve ever been in. as a fellow tiktok creator with a large following, you have to learn when to engage with people, and when to ignore it. you choose to block me for my opinion and that’s fine, i’ve done it before too. but i saw your other comments, you gotta stop acting like you’re better than others in the fandom for the opinion that you hold. calling people morons and saying they are “tourist fans” that “clearly don’t read the books” 🤦🏻♀️ look as someone who has been there before you need to take a break. at the end of the day people interpret media differently than you, and yeah there are some fake fans out there, some show only fans that don’t get the full context, but regardless because someone doesn’t glaze the shit out of Rhaegar Targaryen, you can’t flip out and go on online calling people out of their name. for the record I don’t think Rhaegar is evil, i think he’s stupid and I don’t really like his character much and mind you, all of us are going off of leaked details online, only a minority of the fandom actually get to see this play until it is either filmed for release or fully posted by someone. we ALL could be wrong and being mass trolled right now.
anyway! rambling over! what was y’all’s thoughts on the Mad King?
How much canon do you think the mad king play is ?? GRRM did put up a post in his blog to announce the project but it could also be because he is bound by contract. But did he give them notes like he did with Ira Parker? I kinda doubt it because some of the writing choices do not match the timeline and what we already knew of characters from the main books IDEK the play has turned out to be mixed bag for me
Well, Elio and Linda have come out to say that some of it is cannon he gave to the writers to fill in the blanks, while the rest isn't. This is like the most PR response ever, but I didn't expect anything less.
As for what's cannon and what isn't, no idea. Best guess is that the fucked up timeline, Jon and Dany being the same age, the red comet, certain characters like JonCon being condensed with others, that's likely made up for the play.
As for the rest, yeah, I buy it being cannon or close to what happened in cannon, with a few creative liberties taken to make it suit the stage. For ex. the prophecy being the main motivator. Like yeah, we already know from HOTD that Aegon's prophecy came from George. We've been told time and time again that prophecy has influenced the Targs for centuries, and Rhaegar especially was defined by it.
So I have no trouble believing he and Lyanna bonded over this thing and that she chose to run away with him. It would tie nicely into the theory that the Starks bent the knee willingly to the Targs because they knew Aegon's dream was true and they had to join forces to see it fulfilled.
Idk about Lyanna being a greenseer, but I guess it could work; especially if Bloodraven was influencing her through the weirwood net. As for Elia, I'm torn. I like the idea of her being an active character with her own wants, but the play basically reduced her to walking stereotype.
I do see her and Rhaegar having a cordial relationship, and theirs being a marriage of convenience. I can also buy her helping him to dethrone Aerys, cause it would benefit her to protect her kids (plus we know from cannon the asshole was incredibly racist to her so she has every reason to want him gone). But i don't think she'd just be on board with her husband taking a second wife, and making a rival bloodline to her children, even if they weren't in love romantically.
I also don't know how to feel about the Ashara relationship. On the one hand, I like the queer representation, but on the other... it all feels fetishistic. It makes Dorne come off as this one giant orientalist stereotype where everyone is an evil, scheming bisexual looking to kill/steal power. Same with Rhaella. I've heard horrendous things about her being mad, and even worse than Aerys which like... really? We're doing this again? Making a victim of abuse into an even worse monster than her literal abuser? I'm fine with the possibility of the court perceiving Rhaella as a tortured soul who lashes out and makes mistakes (yeah, a woman who's been pushed to the brink will explode at some point as she should) but her actually being just as evil as Aerys is too much. Not to mention that this directly contradicts Viserys' backstory and what we're repeatedly told by people who knew her (I do buy her being resentful of the whole prophecy thing. That shit ruined her life, so its entirely possible she'd want to thwart it if only to get vindicated)
Now to the really important bits; the PTWP. Yes, I do buy the possibility of both Jon and Dany being the Prince. I never thought the whole chosen one stereotype was going to be played straight in the series, and I always presumed it would be both of them, including Bran as the three heads of the dragon, fighting to end the Long Night. As for Rhaella's curse, I've also seen differing interpretations.
On the one hand, it might symbolize Dany coming in to destroy the old order of the world, aka the very system that saw Rhaella put in that situation, which ofc, has unintended casualties. On the other, it might just be straightforward; she's the false Messiah to Jon's true Prince and he'll have to kill her to restore peace. I don't like this, because it's the same old hysterical woman in power trope that's been used to justify putting women down for centuries, but I'm prepared for the worst, tbh. It's been 15 years since the last book. I have no hope George will ever finish this series, and if he does, the ending will surely piss off a good fraction of the fandom, especially because we've all spent over a decade and a half coming up with way better endings than that.
I was the ask that talked about Lyanna and Rhaegar's possible wedding. My theory is that in the books they had a "northerner" wedding, under a heart tree. That doesn't make Jon legitimate from the eyes of the Faith (or the general Lords of Westeros) but it would make him so from the eyes of the Old Gods. Not to mention Rhaegar "took" Lyanna, making them basically a joined couple in the eyes of the Free Folk. Jon is bastard but also not one.
As for the play, Elio and Linda have confirmed only 50% of it it's canon. Unless George doesn't come out and say which parts are true to the books and which are not we'll never know unless the new books are released.
Yep, saw the post on not a blog, which while a relief (sort of) is such a PR response cause it once again confirms nothing while also keeping hype for the play and egging fans to go see it 😭
Yes, that was my point. I've always had an issue with people who insisted Jon Snow will be revealed as legitimate and immediately seen as 100% valid with no pushback like on the show, when realistically, his claim would be contested, along w his legitimacy by over half of the kingdom (or those who follow the Faith)
And beyond that, his legal status doesn't matter. The point of his the whole R+L=J is the unification of the most magical bloodlines in the series, which is what matters when it comes to fighting the Others.
that's how I feel about tywin lannister! he's one of my personal favorites and yet, I can definitely understand where people are coming from when they dislike him or just criticism that's actually valid amazing character but definitely has his flaws FOR SURE
Tywin is the perfect example.
I personally love Cersei as a character, but she is completely deranged. 🤣
Enjoying a well-written character does not require pretending they are a good person.
hot take: giving your favorite character criticism, doesn't mean you love them any less. I'm a firm dany fan through and through but I do think she has flaws that are worthy of criticism. there's tons of hardcore Dany fans that look past those flaws because "she can do no wrong" but I don't think that's true. it's okay to criticize a character that you love deeply.
which brings me to show!alicent stans. idc if you like the show and like show!alicent a lot but even if you do love show!alicent, it's okay to hold criticism towards her but i feel like a lot of her show stans don't get that
I completely agree, anon.
Loving a character does not require pretending they are flawless. Affection and criticism can coexist perfectly well, and refusing to acknowledge obvious faults is simply poor media literacy.
