"it's not as good as folklore and ttpd"="I think something has to be sad to be deep because I'm too scared to admit that the good the true and the beautiful will always be deeper and more meaningful than sadness"
Yeah agreed!!! I also think there is something to people thinking that ease is inherently less valuable than effort. Life of a showgirl is relaxed. She says more by saying less. Everything is coming from an even deeper place of certainty, self-knowledge, and a craft so honed it looks effortless. That’s not “worse” art!
Ages ago you made a post discussing whether Warren was irresponsible and I had disagreed. You had said you were busy, but you'd respond to my response later, but you never did, which I totally get! Life is crazy, I'm terrible at responding to things myself, so I'm not salty or anything at all! But I am still curious what your thoughts are. Are you up for having that discussion? No pressure whatsoever, to be clear, I realize this is old. I'd be happy to try to find the original post if you'd like
[the 2 year old post in question, for context]
You're right! I had the post in drafts, but by the time I had the time to answer it, I thought it would be too late to post. I'm happy to talk about it now. Keep in mind that I love Warren as a character, at least in the original series (I feel Dragonwatch wasn't true to a lot of original characterisations). For the sake of fairness, I'll only be talking about the original series. Using Dragonwatch to defend my position would be low-hanging fruit.
✧ We hear from Ruth Sorenson about how Warren goes behind Stan's back to give Newel and Doren a TV and batteries for it. They tell Seth he also got them high-quality tennis equipment, which must've been a trade.
"Graphite, light and strong", Newel said. "Warren got us our equipment. Back before he went all Boo Radley on us."
They also try to get Seth to trade for wine, which they sell as something impossible for him to get normally because of his age. Maybe they got used to doing this with Warren when he was young. Either way, is trading with the satyrs for anything (especially gold, given the means they use to get it) responsible?
✧ The reason Warren became albino in the first place was because he was carrying out a covert mission for the Knights of the Dawn. This is why he told nobody where he was going when he ventured into the valley of the four hills. He was supposed to remove and transfer the artifact to a secure location all on his own. Even though it was a secret mission, this is a ridiculous thing to do. Removing the artifact without the knowledge and consent of the caretaker is just theft. It makes sense to tell Stan at the very least; the only reason he retired from the Knights was because caretakers aren't allowed to be Knights. It's irresponsible to go in somewhere even a small modicum as dangerous without telling anyone else where you're going and when you'll return.
✧ During the battle with the guardian of the Sands of Sanctity, Warren gets severely injured. He's already been stabbed in the gut, and is feverish; this is an extremely serious injury. He's lost enough blood, it's surprising he's conscious. (To be fair, I don't think Mull understands how fragile humans are. He seems to think getting gored by antlers is easily survivable.) And then he gets bit by one of the guardian's snakes, and hot acidic sludge is sprayed across his chest and legs. Vanessa says he's dying, and offers him a gaseous potion to extend his life. He refuses this, and uses the spear to attack the guardian, using the rod to fall full speed at it for the last 30 feet. Here's a description of the state he's in by the time Kendra gets to him to save him.
Warren was a wreck, facedown, unconscious, breathing shallowly. Heaving with both hands, Kendra rolled him over, wincing as something inside of him crunched. His mouth was open. Tilting his head up, she tried to ignore the snapping sound his neck made, and dumped the potion into his mouth. His Adam's apple bobbed, and much of the fluid leaked out the sides of his mouth.
Clearly, this was not a wise move; had it not been for the Sands, I believe he would've died. Heroic, certainly. But it left Kendra alone with Vanessa. When Tanu arrives, he says Warren must be nearly gone, or he'd be able to move around freely. It doesn't guarantee the guardian will be killed, only that he will be, and the guardian still has another life that Vanessa would have to deal with.
✧ Warren's decision to confront Stingbulb! Kendra in the middle of the night seemed to me a terrible lapse in judgement. It's true he didn't know she was a stingbulb, but he suspects something of that magnitude. When Seth asks if mind control is likely, he shrugs and says nothing would surprise him. Any way it could've gone might have been disastrous. If it was mind control, there's the suicide tactic. If not that, then she could just make a scene, wake up her parents with screams of "there's a strange man in my house!", and neither Warren nor Seth would be able to give a reasonable explanation. He must've believed she was aligned with the enemy, because if he went in thinking it really was all her, and she sincerely believed in leaking these secrets, they'd have to have a long and involved conversation with her grandparents present. This outcome doesn't necessitate confronting her in the middle of the night.
✧ Peeking at Chalize on the Lost Mesa mission. You already know this one, but I am including it for others who might be reading. From Warren's perspective (not knowing Gavarog's true identity), Gavin warned everyone not to look at the dragon, staking his deal with her on the promise his companions were not to gaze upon her. This was dangerous, and there was no good reason for it.
✧ Warren basically convinces Seth to join the Knights on the Wyrmroost mission in SotDS. Seth fully intended to just sulk about it. Warren certainly didn't coerce him, but he more than encouraged him, and Seth wouldn't have been able to act alone. It should be obvious why this is irresponsible. You can read an excerpt from the book of the part where Warren collaborates with Seth to bring him on the mission here. I've put it in a pastebin, as it's a bit long to include here.
✧ I'm going to double down and say having Raxtus drop Warren so he could attack the harpy was still reckless behaviour. He had all the facts, yes, but none of the facts justify dropping Warren only to dive and catch him again moments later. The initial reason Warren had for wanting to be dropped was so Raxtus could make a speedier escape with Bracken and Kendra. The plunging attack manoeuvre doesn't facilitate that. Its sole purpose would be taking the chance that Warren is able to attack a harpy while falling. The risk is Warren falling to his death, or Raxtus botching the catch- imagine grabbing an arm or a leg and having it dislocate; or the harpy grab Warren and attempt to carry him off.
Now that I'm through with examples of Warren being irresponsible, let's move onto your point on there being a difference in thought process. I don't think there is much of a difference between Warren and Seth when it comes to their decision-making process. Here's an excerpt from right after Seth returns after stealing the unicorn horn.
"I'm with your grandfather on this," Grandma said. "We love you and we're proud of you. The risks you took worked out this time. But how can we reward such behavior? Because we love you, we must teach you caution, or your boldness will destroy you. "
"I weighed my options and made smart choices," Seth responded. "I didn't set out to borrow the horn. I only decided to try for the horn after Graulas showed how my skills as a shadow charmer gave me a realistic chance at success. It was me or nobody. What would Patton have done?"
Warren chuckled. "He would have shaved the centaurs, dipped them in honey, covered them with feathers, and hung them up like a bunch of piñatas. " Kendra, Seth, and Tanu laughed. "I'm just saying. "
...
"Yeah, well, I'll give this stupid horn back to the centaurs before I get left out of the trip to Wyrmroost," Seth threatened. "Good luck taking it from me!"
"It isn't going to be a vacation," Coulter said.
"And it isn't about seeing cool dragons," Grandpa growled, clearly losing his temper.
"Although they will be cool," Warren murmured, earning an elbow from Tanu.
Tears brimmed in Seth's eyes. His mouth opened as if he wanted to say more; then he turned and stormed out of the room.
"What are we going to do with that boy?" Grandma sighed.
"I don't know," Grandpa said. "If he hadn't decided to go after the horn, we'd still be treading water. Maybe he's the only one of us seeing this clearly. "
Grandma shook her head. "Don't kid yourself. His main interest is still the adventure. Saving the world is a happy side effect. This is all still a game to him. "
"Patton was the same way," Warren mentioned. "He did a lot of good, partly because he relished the thrill. "
"I think Seth cares," Kendra spoke up. "It isn't only about the fun anymore. I think he's learning. "
I think this part speaks for itself. And I get the feeling Warren's counting himself among the "like Patton" crowd. Warren and Seth do things for the right reasons, most of the time. I think that their most egregious risks come in situations with seemingly no way out, where their idea presents as an outlandish "so crazy it just might work" option. You bring up the time Seth went into Graulas' cave for the first time in GotSP. He goes in not knowing much at all, which is rash. He doesn't know Graulas will radiate fear, and he doesn't know he's immune to said fear. But he doesn't make this decision out of nowhere. Shadow! Tanu has assured his safety to him. Here's an excerpt from the book, which comes after paragraphs of Seth contemplating whether the risk is wise.
Was sneaking out of the house to follow the shadowy manifestations of Coulter and Tanu into the woods going to be dangerous? Absolutely. The question was whether the risk was justified.
Earlier that afternoon, Tanu had completed his transformation into a shadowman just outside the window. He had waited in the shade on the deck until sundown, when he had ventured off into the woods. A few hours later, with evening deepening, the silent shadows of Tanu and Coulter had returned. Visible only to Seth, they had stood halfway across the yard from the house, allowing Grandpa to address them from the deck. Tanu had indicated that all was well with two thumbs up, and they had gestured for Seth to follow them, inviting Grandpa to come along as well. Through pantomime, Coulter had expressed that he would scout ahead as they traveled in order to prevent encounters with dangerous creatures.
But Grandpa had declined the invitation. He had stated that if Tanu and Coulter could devise a way for him to follow them without Seth, he would consent to accompany them. As he told them this, Seth stood behind him making subtle gestures, stealthily pointing at Grandpa and shaking his head, then pointing at himself, then pointing at them, then winking. None but Seth could see Tanu salute that he had received the message.
The house had been still for some time. If he was going to follow through on the message he had mimed to Tanu and Coulter, the moment had arrived. But he hesitated. Was he actually going to disregard a direct order from Grandpa and entrust his life to the shadowy versions of Tanu and Coulter? If Tanu and Coulter had his best interests in mind, would they be willing to let him sneak away with them against Grandpa's wishes? Hopefully they were certain he would be safe and confident that Grandpa would thank them all later.
What were the possibilities? They might lead him into a trap. He might die or be transformed into a shadow himself. Then again, he might solve the mystery of the plague, restore Tanu and Coulter, and save Fablehaven.
Seth scooted out from under his covers, pulled on his shoes, and started tying the laces. The bottom line was that Grandpa would have been willing to risk his life on the gamble that the shadows of Tanu and Coulter meant to offer meaningful assistance. He would have followed them if he could have done so alone. He simply was not willing to risk Seth's life. To Seth, this proved that the risk was worth taking. If Grandpa loved him too much to let him take a worthwhile risk, then he would bypass Grandpa.
It speak for itself. This is the option that presents itself to him, as the gang seems backed into a corner. They don't know what to do about the plague. Stan seems defeated; he questions if he's fit for his role as caretaker. They contemplate ditching the preserve before the plague claims them as victims, but stand by because they're worried the Sphinx would become caretaker in their absence.
In conclusion, I'd like to go back to the point of my original post. People like to joke about Seth being an idiot, someone who doesn't think things through, while seeing Warren as slightly devil-may-care but ultimately smooth and capable. I'm saying that there's no difference between the two in that respect, but Warren being an attractive adult makes us perceive him as more responsible.
One of my goals is to learn how to sew pockets into every skirt and dress I own. I need to be able to fit a small loaf of bread into my pockets 18th century style.
Ooh thanks for the ask! (Sorry it took like way forever, kinda lame-o...)
Hmmmmm I really want some cute Kendra and Seth sibling togetherness (ESPECIALLY AFTER THOSE LAST FEW PAGES OF COTTG!!! Seth needs hugs, I demand it).
I’d also like the people still stuck at Wyrmroost to, you know, like have some legit part in the series. Like super awesome scene or something where they like I dunno break out or take part in the grand plan (“We can take them. You guys go on.” *epicness*) I mean Stan is the captain of the knights of the dawn (Maybe they gather up all the knights of something and it’s this big epic showdown). Ruth is a burgess (and has wicked crossbow skills and all that jazz) Hank and Gloria kinda sorta infiltrated Living Mirage/the Evening Star. They gotta be able to do something cool.
Also hope for more big stuff for Knox and Tess too.
Ooh I’m super excited now. Brandon mull and the last book in a series, heck yes. He’s so great 😄
TTPD was so full of the heartbreak that comes from an unfulfilled longing for marriage -it was a open, gaping, bleeding wound. And now we get TLOAS with its utter confidence that marriage is on the way and she was right!!!!!!
I KNOW
And also, in the way I’ve observed so much in real life when someone meets someone who is right for them and marriage is the clear goal early on in an unmistakable way, all the chatter and worry around the subject of marriage just dies away and it’s just a fact of life in the best way. There’s no fretting on this album! There’s not even any longing —it’s just fulfilled and settled and no less wonderful for that!
I am just repeating everything you said but YES. (Also I’m sorry it took so long to answer. Happy one week!)
Maybe it's just the youngest child in me liking things to be about me, lol, but I was totally taken by surprise by the line "Every youngest child felt/They were raised up in the wild/But now you're home"
IT’s SO SWEET
I think it’s such a good balance to the eldest daughter of it all too. Especially because the song is about recapturing some of that lost magic and innocence of childhood! It’s very poignant.
