#theme: equality

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Hey! I started following your page last year, I love how you explain the relationship between Guts and Griffith!

If possible, I wanted to ask you what do you think about what happened in the last chapter (374). Like, why Guts throws up seeing Griffith? Idk how to feel about this! Thank you so much!

Thank you!

I think the vomiting specifically is just an expression of his inner turmoil. What he's feeling most overtly is rage and self-loathing for not being able to land a hit on Griffith, which is tied into his obsession with being Griffith's equal (which informs his revenge rampage, as you can see by Guts remembering Griffith's Promrose Hall speech as he makes his war declaration after the Eclipse). There's this whole sense of intense failure in being unable to reach him, in Griffith still being so far removed from him.

More subtextually but still pretty clear, that desire to be Griffith's equal ties back to wanting Griffith to look at him and respect him, and that's also unachievable now, it seems. Griffith doesn't respect him as a friend or an enemy - Guts is still beneath his notice.

He wants to drag Griffith back down to his level and force him to really see him and look at him again, imo, even if that's while he's dying by Guts' hand, and now even that "dream" feels out of reach.

And yeah, that's my take on the scene. Hope that makes sense!

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Do you think Guts viewed Casca as an equal during the Golden Age?

lol nooooope

To be fair I think, despite the misogyny seeping through in a lot of Guts’ interactions with her which is probably intended to be funny, we’re meant to understand that Guts respects her once they lose their animosity towards each other. He says he sees her as a comrade and thinks she’s a good commander so yk, that’s all well and good.

But within the context of equality as a big relationship Thing in the Golden Age, “a friend is someone who is my equal,” yadda yadda yadda, no, Casca is never given consideration as a potential equal to Guts like he wants Griffith to be. He wants her to leave with him to support his dream, not find a dream of her own.

And I never get the sense that Guts considers Casca an equal subconsciously either, the way I’d argue Griffith sees Guts during the Golden Age. He’s condescending to her often, he yells at her after saving her from Wyald and insists on fighting him alone instead of with an equal at his side the way he faced down Zodd with Griffith, he literally says Casca should come with him on his journey because he wants to fuck her a thousand more times but he doesn’t know whether she’ll get in the way eventually so he keeps it non committal. He changes his mind and decides to stay with Griffith at the end without consulting her first.

If Miura intended them to be a more equal relationship in comparison to the obsession with power dynamics in the Guts and Griffith relationship, which I think you can maybe argue solely thanks to the potential parallel between Nina and Luca and Nina’s shitty boyfriend lol, then he failed hard at it.

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There seem to be multiple points in the narrative of Berserk where becoming a monster, an apostle specifically, are presented to Guts as a real temptation to him. I have a notion that within this is a desire to return to a form of his previous dynamic with Griffith before he left him kneeling in the snow. Becoming an apostle to Griffith as a member of the Godhand could potentially facilitate this. I am curious as to your thoughts on this and how this may play out.

I largely agree that this is the vibe. I don’t think it’s a likely direction for the story to go though - I think probably when Guts first picked up the behelit in the Black Swordsman arc the original intent was for it to be forbodingly his, with this temptation highlighted, but since then we’ve gotten multiple reminders that he could just be carrying it for someone, and the berserk armour basically makes the behelit redundant for Guts. Since picking up that armour he has his own reversible way of releasing his inner monstery darkness, which is much more fitting for a protagonist of a work that may not have a completely depressing ending lol.

But yeah that’s 100% part of the temptation of becoming a monster for Guts.

It’s not get literally closer to Griffith in order to kill him either, it’s specifically closer as in “more deeply connected to.”

And don’t even get me started on the beast referring to Griffith as Guts’ “true light” in a monologue where light explicitly refers to companionship in the first scene featuring Guts after that intense eye contact.

The one thing I miiiight disagree with is that idk if Guts wants to return to his previous dynamic with Griffith throughout the Golden Age exactly, yk specifically the commander/subordinate dynamic. Because I think Guts is still kind of subconsciously obsessed with that notion of equality and true friendship between them.

yk like bc of the way he flashbacked to the speech after making his war declaration

and honestly I think a lot of his motivation for wanting to fight Femto/Griffith comes specifically from Griffith’s “even if that threat were me, myself.” Because hey, according to Griffith’s speech that Guts based his life around, he can try to kill Griffith AND still be his bff, it’s win/win!

ON THE OTHER HAND you also have the big Golden Age implication that Griffith’s speech was dumb and even when they were commander/subordinate they were still equals and true friends whether they admitted it or not because the emotions between them are what equalized them. Guts kind of figured this out at the very end right before the Eclipse happened when he finally got it into his head that he ruined Griffith’s life by abandoning him, a fact that means Griffith’s speech was stupid and he never had to leave to find his own dream at all.

So idk basically I think yeah you can make a good argument that Guts becoming an apostle and, say, replacing Zodd at Griffith’s side is a giant temptation for Guts, as is fighting Griffith and forcing respect from him a la his Promrose Hall speech criteria. Guts probably wants either/both subconsciously.

I don’t think Guts irreversibly becoming a monster would exactly be narratively satisfying, like there are probably ways it could work but it’s hard for me to imagine it, but that false equality of Guts pursuing a dream (revenge) and fighting Griffith to achieve it would also be kind of unsatisfying - like how hollow would it be if Guts finally felt equal to Griffith only because he wins a fight against him? I guess for me what really needs to happen imo is Guts realizing Griffith’s heart is still beating for him and finding catharsis in that knowledge, and if that happens then I’ll probably be happy no matter what else goes on with the ending.

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oh and like, the second duel is less guts winning his freedom/equality and more guts demolishing griffith and costing him his freedom, both literally and figuratively

like we knew that already - guts left to establish their equality but it was wrongheaded and when he returned griffith had been tortured for a year was totally dependent and had just had a monologue reflecting on guts’ hold on him - but yk the waterfight is a little extra point now.

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it only just occurred to me that guts doesn’t necessarily mean ‘now this waterfight is a draw’ but it's more likely that he means ‘now you won a fight and i won a fight.’

which makes this waterfight and “now we’re even” even more meaningful than i’ve been saying lol. it’s like a negation of the first duel, meaning that guts is symbolically only bound to the hawks by his affection for everyone - which works perfectly with the scene right after this one where guts deliberately chooses to stay after rickert congratulates him and he thinks, “for now.”

also newsflash assholes you’ve been equal the entire goddamn time

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also guts thinking griffith is so godly and high above him is such a good self fulfilling prophecy

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As an illustration of Guts realizing he threw what he desperately wanted away (Griffith) by leaving to earn him, these two pages are amazing.

“If you’re Griffith’s friend and equal” with the larger than life beautiful and noble image of Griffith dwarfing them, to “Why do I always see these things... after they’re done and gone...?” with what Griffith has become, tiny and weak, because Guts broke him by leaving to become his equal, itself proof that leaving was unnecessary.

Griffith as the image Guts wanted to rise up to join, whose love and affection and respect he craved vs Griffith as the human Guts was already equal to, who craved Guts’ love and affection and respect in kind.

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Anyway, on Griffith always facing away in Guts’ memories:

Guts left Griffith in the snow in an attempt to become Griffith’s equal. When he came back, by all standards of measurement these two dudes give a fuck about, Guts is by far his superior. Griffith was broken by Guts leaving, then broken by torture, and is dependent physically and emotionally on him.

It’s a very be careful what you wish for thing lol.

However, one side-effect of the Eclipse, not intended by Griffith but intended by the narrative, is it’s a reset button on their stupid power dynamic obsession - Guts has another shot at achieving his dream, ironic as that is.

Guts left, when he came back he discovered in as brutal a way as possible that he left for no reason. The fact that his leaving destroyed Griffith was proof that his attempt to become Griffith’s equal was based on misinformation. However, after the Eclipse, Griffith is a god and now Guts is back at square one.

This is basically directly stated when Guts thinks of Griffith’s friendship speech while declaring war on him.

So I think part of the reason he usually remembers Griffith with his back turned is basically because he’s in a cycle of pursuing him, first to stand beside him, and now to drag him down to him.

Which begs 2 questions imo:

1. Can Guts break free of this cycle? 2. Does Guts need to pursue Griffith at all to be his equal, or does the irony of the Golden Age (I left to be your equal but turns out I already was lol whoops) still hold true? ie, how emotionally compromised is NeoGriff?

@mastermistressofdesire