#therealkellymonster

[carterhaughs]

I thought Cass was going to straight up spill the beans about him and Tulip to Jesse in the car, because he obviously really wanted to hurt Jesse. I literally said " don't you fucking dare!!" out load. Sooooo much happened, I can't process it all right now. For some reason that sticks out right now though...

for a minute I did too and I was like ???? bc I couldn’t imagine him even thinking about that at the moment so thank goodness he didn’t say that but I do think we were meant to think he was going to. they like doing fakeouts like that.

[carterhaughs]

Do you think now that Tulip, since having to come clean about Viktor, will come clean about her and Cassidy to Jesse? Like she's got nothing left to lose, might as well lay out ALL the cards. Or do you think seeing how Jesse's reacting to Viktor that she'll never tell? If Jesse is never told then does that kill the friendship between Tulip and Cassidy? Do you think Cassidy will just eventually break down and come clean? If he really is trying to do better in his life, which is what it seems.

Definitely not. Tulip had a number of reasons for not wanting to tell Jesse about Viktor, foremost of which was not wanting to be shamed by him according to Ruth. The other reasons seem to me to be that he’d possibly endanger other people around him and also make the situation worse and unsalvageable, if it was possible to save. After this mess with Viktor, it will be even more difficult for her to feel she can recapture what she once had with Jesse and she wouldn’t want to endanger that further. Like Ruth said, Tulip wants things to go back to the way they were pre-Dallas, but Jesse just isn’t that guy anymore, and this will only make the rift between the two of them harder to close. 

Though it pains him to keep this secret, I feel like Cassidy will react to this in much the same way he did to Jesse’s behavior in “He Gone” where he couldn’t get him to admit that damning someone to hell was wrong - “Tulip was right about you.” They’ve already sown some suspicion between Jesse and the two of them when neither of them offered him an explanation for where they were when Gary was killed and he clearly caught on to that (as well as Cassidy going after her when Jesse wanted to hit the jazz bars), so that will probably come up again at some point, but perhaps not anytime soon. Cassidy will probably also feel like Tulip’s wellbeing and the state of her relationship with Jesse is more important than his need to tell the truth. And Tulip’s emotional wellbeing won’t be Jesse’s primary concern so long as he’s a man on a mission, nor has he ever entirely been cut out for tending to it. 

Like Dom said about Jesse’s understanding of Tulip’s emotional situation, “He doesn’t know the side of her that has these massive, massive problems. He doesn’t know about this side to her life that makes her feel a bit more fragile. It says quite a lot about Jesse.” In “Viktor,” part of the reason Jesse didn’t bother following up with Tulip is that he didn’t have all the information like Cassidy did, but part of it was also because of his emotional disconnect with others. It’s well-established that he’s very emotionally inarticulate, and most importantly that he’s never told anyone, not even Tulip, about the abusive L’Angells or about how he believes he damned his father to hell when John Custer sent her away - and that is what is always chiefly driving his behavior and keeping that to himself and suffering the consequences contributes to his emotional isolation and disconnect. It’s not surprising that because Jesse is so often dealing with his own issues, he has trouble processing the emotional states of others as a result, especially when someone like Tulip who is good at putting up a front and a show of strength is involved. He typically just assumes that she’ll be fine, because she usually is. But now that he knows she isn’t, how will he handle that? He didn’t handle things well after Dallas, and I’m sure we’ll get more details on that next episode. 

We know from the preview that Tulip punches Cassidy next episode - probably for telling Jesse where she was and complicating things when she was hoping to handle them herself - but I’ve little doubt they’ll make up. From earlier previews we know Jesse and Tulip and Cassidy go out on the town when Cassidy tells them they should have a bit of fun, so the three of them obviously come to terms somehow though I’m sure things will still be uneasy - they’ve all got a lot of things to work out. And it’s on that episode, judging by the clothes they’re wearing, that they end up at that “Hurt Locker” place and Tulip and Cassidy kiss (???) for some reason and Denis is also there??? So idk what any of that means but I’m interested to find out. 

[carterhaughs]

the-real-kellymonster replied to your post “the only logical conclusion we can draw from the huge amounts of...”

Yes! What @triumviratuse said x 1000

bostoneris replied to your post “the only logical conclusion we can draw from the huge amounts of...”

What triumviratuse said

that is so kind of you guys to say :”) I probably have a few analyses left in me before I go dormant for a while, and plenty more podcasts - @hermouthslipped and I are planning to break our analysis of the finale into several parts across several podcast episodes and really take our time with it bc we can afford to, as the season’s over - and there’s lots of other stuff to discuss besides and a whole year to wait for more. we’ll spend it as best we can. 

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gxnsandtxlips

Honestly my first thought was "is he trying to fuck jesse up so he can get to tulip?" but Jesse had just battered the shit out of Cassidy and it was only natural for him to kinda just go "you know what, sure, i'd do the same, you do you. whatever." I hope people don't make Cassidy out to be the "baddie" of the ep when jesse, well...he was a dick to everyone.

yeah there was definite moral ambiguity in cassidy’s actions to be sure, and it’s inexcusable, if understandable, how jesse’s actions lead him to be selfish - though he went in with good intentions.

the-real-kellymonster

I know I shouldn't just jump to conclusions about the motives of Cassidy. I believe, I know, show Cassidy is a far different animal than comic Cassidy and Jesse had just chewed him to shreds and I'd probably be petty too... I'm not going to allow that tiny, worried voice in the back of my mind any chance to fester

Basically, his motives started out good and then became bad. I’m sure there’s more shit to come, but I think it’s important to remember that all these characters have many sides, and anything that does happen will very likely be more morally complicated than what the comics gave us - that has certainly been the case with all three of these characters so far.

[carterhaughs]

the-real-kellymonster replied to your post “the-real-kellymonster replied to your post “the-real-kellymonster ...”

Yes, even in the scene where Cassidy pats her leg, asking if she's alright, right before that she had such a look on her face of sadness and fear even that I'm not familiar with from this character so mark me down as seriously worried about her too. She didn't even see nearly sad and or scared with everything that happened with Annville exploding, with having to kill Gary then face Viktor, not even when she was trying to pry Jesse off Viktor. She was able to hold it together and now that wall, that facade is gone.... I'm hoping that Cassidy doesn't allow the kiss to further complicate an already sticky situation, no matter how much it caught him off guard, no matter how much he liked it, will not cross any boundaries because I think he knows better then anyone that she's not okay, that this is not your "normal" Tulip O'Hare!

Exactly, this was shell-shock - like she’d seen some unspeakable horror. it was nothing mundane that could’ve shaken her so much - only something otherworldly. and Cassidy can tell that whatever this thing is, it’s hit her hard. Ruth has talked about how “the legacy of that encounter, or those encounters, opens up for her vulnerabilities and things that she really hadn’t been dealing with” and that “There’s a very strong storyline for Tulip [about] how she deals with her vulnerability. That’s a very strong theme for her in terms of her past mistakes coming back to haunt her” - “The Saint of Killers is her history coming to haunt her. He’s the embodiment of all those things she hasn’t dealt with that you can’t use your fist against. When all you know is how to fight, how do you come to terms with that?” Jesse is dealing with his own problems and hiding his own issues and will likely have trouble being aware of that or attempting to rectify it somehow and ofc Cassidy will be there for her but he can only do so much. She will definitely struggle for the rest of the season probably. And I think Cassidy will try to support her. Tulip is in a very confused emotional place and is likely to be reactive and impulsive and I think that’s where the kiss will come from, rather than any desire to make Jesse jealous or something bc we’ve seen she absolutely doesn’t want to do that. She’s grown warmer towards and more trusting of Cassidy ever since she’s met him and we’ve seen their relationship develop more and more nearly every episode this season, and this last episode he just saved her life, has been checking in with her emotionally, etc. when she’s in a dark and lonely mental state, she might be drawn to him, but I think Cassidy of all people is wise enough to know that like you said, this isn’t normal for her. It’s like Joe said recently at the SDCC press conference - Cassidy just wishes Jesse would appreciate her and what he has with her more because he loves her so much and thinks that’s what she deserves. 

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People just want to focus on Cassidy eventually becoming a villain. If they've read the comics and want to keep comparing it to the show them why not discuss how Jesse, in the comic, always saw Tulip as a damsel he'd need to save, oozing macho bullshit all over the place. Never giving her the credit that she could hold her own. Or that the Tulip in the comics seemed to have no vulnerabilities what so ever, EXCEPT for Jesse. A badass sure but one dimensional

Exactly! These characters have changed, all of them, for the better. I’ve written extensively about how Jesse and Tulip differ both individually and as a couple from the comics, in addition to everything I’ve written about Cassidy. I love the comics but I’m not at all uncritical of them - and the show in many ways has addressed my grievances with them. Tulip is no longer a cardboard cutout character whose entire plot revolves around Jesse, Jesse is no longer Mr. Macho Man whose morality is never questioned and whose childhood trauma doesn’t really seem to have affected him all that much most of the time, and Cassidy isn’t the Guy Who’s So Much Worse Than Them B/c He’s an Addict. Cassidy was the most complicated of the three in the comics, and to me the most interesting, but as it stands on the show I’m fascinated by and deeply invested in all three of them. And ultimately, while we will occasionally have beef with all of them for fucking up, I think we are meant to sympathize with and root for all of them to be ok, and not at the expense of any of them. In a recent interview with Vice, Joe and Ruth both defended their characters. 

Similar to Negga, Gilgun holds his character close to his heart—no matter how much a screw-up he is. To him, Cassidy means well, insisting that “He’s a sweetheart.” [x]

I never would’ve called Cassidy a sweetheart in the comics, not even before shit went down. He’s just not the same guy on the show. 

[carterhaughs]

Okay, off the wall idea: Cassidy and the nurse are walking and talking. She's apologizing for his being mistaken as dead, due to the trucks running in tandem now. Cassidy says that alcohol and a lack of vital signs will do that every time, and the nurse doesn't react in anyway. Is this just the been there/heard that reaction of a seasoned health care worker? Or has she run into vampires before? (I'm starting to think Cassidy's penchant for conspiracy theories is rubbing off :D)

hahahaha GOOD QUESTION. I actually had a headcanon that Tulip had had enough encounters with the Weird that Cassidy’s vampirism didn’t surprise her too much, and that perhaps that was true of other people too. This is from an old fic of mine involving that headcanon in a fic set right after Monster Swamp so I didn’t have all the proper character info yet (so I feel the characterization is a bit off and I like the other fics I wrote later on after more episodes had been released better) but I think it still gets across what I’m talking about.

Her mother’s house was a respectable if sparsely furnished place, always well-lighted, always spic and span. It’s not as though her mother was ever really there, but she always thought of it as her mother’s house, because it wasn’t hers to call home. Annville was never hers to call home either because it didn’t want her, and you couldn’t want a place if it didn’t want you. It was still hard to process the fact that she was even in Annville, much less the fact that a fucking vampire was sleeping in her mother’s bed.

Because surely, that had to be what he was? Tulip was no stranger to the weird; that was part and parcel of growing up in the town that God forgot but the devil never failed to remember. She’d never met a vampire, herself, though she did see what she thought was a chupacabra once. Took a big shit on her uncle’s porch and ran off in the direction of the traveling petting zoo where her uncle had already decimated the goat population. Little fucker was S.O.L. The next day, she’d told everyone at school who would listen what she’d seen and got sternly reprimanded for “telling wild stories.” How do you know it was a chupacabra, Priscilla-Jean? the teacher had asked. Because I’ve seen old man Quincannon plenty a times. I know what a chupacabra looks like. That landed her in the principal’s office.

[carterhaughs]

the-real-kellymonster replied to your post “priscillajeanohare: after the Dallas flashbacks and now seeing...”

When Jesse found out Tulip was lying, in Dallas, he couldn't take his feelings of anger and betrayal out on Tulip, he took it out on Reggie. So what happens this time, if/when he reaches that point again? I don't think Cassidy is just going to sit there and take it. Jesse saw the weakness in Reggie, and while the beating he gave him was sudden and brutal, Jesse knew Reggie wouldn't be a problem. Jesse underestimates Cassidy all the time. Plus there's Genesis now, that Jesse is always going to use to his advantage because he thinks it's in his right. I mean I'm just spitballing here but things are not going to end well or pretty.

You probably heard @hermouthslipped and I discussing this on the podcast but we didn’t feel Jesse hit Reggie bc he wouldn’t hit Tulip (though we know he never would) - somehow I doubt much thought, if any, was behind his violence there. He just snapped in the sort of blank, blind rage that some abused and traumatized people exhibit and Reggie had just spoken and broken the uneasy silence. bottom line is that as ruth said, tulip never forgot that and wanted to avoid such a situation for cassidy’s sake. 

interestingly, I’m not sure cassidy would want to fight back, at least not physically (knowing him he def would verbally)...and perhaps that’s when jesse might actually command him to fight via Genesis. and that wouldn’t be pretty, for either of them. unlike his comic counterpart, I’m not sure this cassidy actually has superhuman strength so much as superhuman stamina, judging by his fights with fiore and deblanc and on the airplane - and he needed jesse’s help to get out of handcuffs.