#topic9

[hellenicroundtable]

Topic 9: The Place of Paganism

As Hellenic pagans/reconstructionists/wiccans/revivalists/whatevers what is our place in the wider religious world? What can we do to create better bonds with those of different paths? 

The question is pretty self-explanatory! 

What do you feel the place of paganism (or specifically Hellenic polytheism) is in the context of the wider world of religion?

How do you relate to people of other religions?

What do you think we can do to encourage interfaith unity, as pagans? Do you think interfaith unity is valuable? Do you work towards it in your own practice?

Tag your responses #hellenic round table, #hellenicrt, #hellenicroundtable, #topic9, or @ mention this blog or @hellenicappalachia!

You have all month, and next month, and whenever, to do responses! Sorry this month is late, Mod’s life has gotten crazy lately!

[bitalks]

My Bi Identification Journey

As far as I was concerned, and I was very happy to repeat this over and over to myself, sexuality should be avoided at all costs in order to remain pure.

Huh. So I guess my über strict moral system I’d adopted from religious teachings at a young age may have been more damaging than helpful. Guess I’m still struggling with this Christian hangover.

From this perspective the identification process of understanding and accepting my sexuality is mostly summed up in two words, long and painful. With that innate understanding of self that comes with being a young child and is lost somewhere around puberty, I think I always knew I was bi. Even though it was some time before I understood that there was not only a classification for my attraction but an entire supportive network of people who were like me.

The progression to understanding and accepting my sexuality took years even after I knew I was heavily attracted to females as well as males.  The most defining moment when I couldn’t deny and repress my same-sex attraction came when I was sitting drunk on my boyfriends’ floor with my best friend while my boyfriend and everyone was outside enjoying the Halloween party. Struggling to speak the words out loud that had been plaguing me subconsciously for over a year I told her how “it hurts to breathe without her”- her being my best friend? Soul mate? First love? that I’d found the first day of year 8 and lost to stupid reasons. We were never technically dating, neither of us really acknowledging that what we’d had was more than friendship until the friendship was virtually over. With all the innocence of a first love unspoken we’d accidentally carried out a 4 year ‘friendship’ that was everything dating was but without any of the explicit validation for our feelings.

(How did I not realise I was queer sooner)

So in this was it was my undeniable attraction to her that broke my denial about my queerness and really started the process of self-acceptance for this part of me I’d done my best to repress. I had to change all my founding beliefs and understandings to come to a point of acceptance where I could finally identify as bi- something that became a source of great relief and joy and not the binding inevitability I’d always assumed it would be if I were even honest about myself. This girl, the best friend that started my journey was also the one who accompanied and still accompanies me on this journey. Finally being able to talk about our sexualities openly and discuss the intense relationship we’d had with the grand understanding of hindsight. She really helped me accept bisexuality as a valid part of myself and opened my eyes to a world and an educated tumblr community where I didn’t have to be ashamed of my nature.

Before bi I toyed with the idea I might ‘lack’ a sexuality, a feeling of asexuality before I knew what that meant.  I now understand this was me trying to forcibly repress sexuality before I was in a place where I could handle what it meant to accept that part of me. Straight was also the default I’d tried to fit in for most of my life.

Right now I can say that I know of the freedom that comes with identifying- my first acknowledgement that I am not wrong, that I am valid and that I am nothing that needs fixing. I’ve learnt to deal with some of my past attractions, though trying to retrospectively deal with 4ish years of hard-core feelings for someone isn’t easy when you’re in a committed hetero relationship. I’ve yet to quite figure out how to get closure on that without destroying the relationship I’ve built with my boyfriend of 2 years. Amazingly I have managed to come out to him, something so much more liberating than I anticipated. So currently him and a few select friends know my true identity but it still hurts to feel like I can’t authentically be myself around my family and everyone else I am closested to but hey, that’s an issue for later.

Have fun with that future me.

Lena 

[bitalks]

Topic 9: Your Bi Identity Journey

Hey all! This Bi Talks topic really interested me. The biggest source of angst in the whole realization process was not knowing what was going on or having any concept of how bisexuality was in real life. So, here’s a bunch of my thoughts/anecdotes.

When was the first time you questioned your sexuality? What prompted it? I don’t know if there was any one moment I can pinpoint. In middle school I remember noticing a girl’s breasts and thought that it didn’t mean anything, everyone notices breasts sometimes, right? In college a very dear friend of mine who is a gay man and I had a joke about a crossover list—women he’d go straight for and I’d go gay for. I always had more to add to the list. I haven’t had a crush on a girl yet (at least that I was aware of) but I used to find myself looking at this one girl in my Comics class. My gaze would always return to her. And so at 21 I finally began thinking about the fact that that might just mean something. It took me about a year and a half to really consider it and start working things out, then another half a year or so to be comfortable enough to come out to people.

What were the defining moment(s) of your journey? Did you have any support from someone? Share some nice stories with us, please :) I’ve been very lucky and had a lot of support. My dear friend whyofcourseyoucan has been such a source of support and encouragement since before I was sure enough to officially come out to him. When I told my high school friends (8 of us are still quite close), I got drunk as hell and nervously blurted it out during a pause in video game playing. Everyone was supportive, but my friend Amy’s reaction was my favorite: she threw an imaginary handful of glitter on me and said “No one cares!” And then they all told me how much they love me and asked me questions so they could better understand. (Side note for any youngsters: hangovers get so much worse the second you graduate from college. It ain’t pretty, kids.) When I was defending the importance of the Black Widow as a character to my sister she jokingly asked, “You trying to tell me something?” And I, having been searching for an opportunity to come out in natural conversation for several months, told her that hadn’t been my intention, but yes. So the Black Widow is forever a part of my coming out story, which is pretty cool.

What, if any, other identities you considered before your current one(s)? I thought I was straight for most of my life. This is why I think bi visibility in media is so important—I knew I liked boys, so I didn’t really think about it any more. I ignored some of the above moments because I knew I liked boys. I briefly thought I might be a lesbian because if I was oblivious about part of my sexuality, maybe I was just completely wrong. I’ve only dated one guy in high school and the kissing was less than wonderful, so I wondered if maybe I was just gay and didn’t know it. Figuring out bisexuality is complex sometimes. Nowadays I’m pretty sure, which is a more relaxing way to live.

How figuring other parts of your identities related to figuring out your bisexuality? Not much to say on this one. I’m grateful I come from a family who supports me and has no problems with who I am. It has made being a woman and a feminist interesting in that I like sexy images of women but sometimes it gets creepy because out society is often creepy and patriarchal. Like, yeah that lady in the Victoria’s Secret commercial looks great, but I feel I should be appreciating her as a person, not just for her breasts or as an altered, unattainable beauty standard, ya know? But, to end on a positive note: figuring my shit out was hard. It was awkward (I am awkward) and I felt ridiculous for not figuring this huge part of myself out sooner. But I got through it and it was worth it, because I’m proud of who I am and I’m happy with who I am and I’m just happy in general.

[littlepon]

BiTalks asky thing

When was the first time you questioned your sexuality? What prompted it?

*Emma dons her hindsight goggles* When I was twelve or thirteen, my favorite TV show of all time was Dancing with the Stars. I paid a bit of attention to the pro and star guys (Apolo and Derek come to mind), but I paid too much attention to Kym and Julianne, as well as Edyta and Cheryl from time to time too. At 13, I also remember meeting a nanny for the first time, but she was so pretty I couldn't even look at her. At 15, I had a really hard time not thinking about a girl on the varsity field hockey team (I was JV)--so much so to the point that it was really hard for me to concentrate in the choir class we also shared.

Thing is, I managed to dismiss *all of that*, based on the fact that I also liked boys, and they liked me back. Also, my mom's a big new-agey metaphysics fan who believed in the Law of Attraction and she rubbed off on me, so when I was a small teenager I put all my energy into drowning out any "bad thoughts" I may have had.

But then when I was about 18, I was cast in a queer role (a genderfluid Paris in an all-girls-except-for-Romeo-and-Capulet Romeo and Juliet), and I realized that being straight wasn't a requirement--but I still identified as that anyway, up until I was a college sophomore confessing her feelings for her best friend and kissing her study partner.

What were the defining moment(s) of your journey? Did you have any support from someone? Share some nice stories with us, please :)

Hmmm. I'd have to say the love I got from the first friends I told. I picked them carefully, and they did not disappoint me. Also being out at Anime Boston was really cool bc there were lots of cute girls. Also: happy memory of gay cousin commenting on how queer our side of the family is (all three of us--my aunt's the third)

What, if any, other identities you considered before your current one(s)?

Straight, mainly. Then questioning/bi-curious. Then biromantic-questioning. Then just bi--because I didn't want to explain the different thought processes and physical feelings I get with girls and guys (for reference, I don't have any romantic or sexual data on any other genders). OR how my autism factors into that whole thing.

How figuring other parts of your identities related to figuring out your bisexuality?

I have known I was autistic/aspie since before I could remember, but I only started embracing it this year. However, that comes with people telling me and me telling myself I "don't know what I'm feeling." 

If you’re in the middle of your journey and are still figuring yourself out, where are you at right now? What things are troubling you? What are the part(s) that you’re sure about?

I am… well… still figuring out details. Sometimes I can't tell the difference between intense friendship and romance. And I'm still figuring out why I get incredibly sick of physical contact sometimes (especially with guys). And whether I get this sick of other genders like I do guys.

But I'm sure of this: I've been completely infatuated with boys, to the point that I subconsciously changed my actions. I've been completely infatuated with girls, to the point that inevitable heartbreak became almost unbearable. I've wanted to kiss lots of guys and I have a guy friend w benefits. I've wanted to kiss quite a few girls and am currently trying not to LOSE IT around the cute girl from ballroom. I've shoved a part of me down for way too long and I'm sick of it.

[waterfalls-in-space]

My Bi Identity Journey (BiTalks topic 9)

Possible trigger warning: discussion of bi erasure This is my first contribution to BiTalks. I actually only very recently came out to myself as bisexual, and have so far only come out to a few people in my life. I probably would have spent the rest of my life not even considering the possibility because my attraction to men has always been predominant, and I habitually either misidentified or disregarded any attraction/feelings towards women. In the last few months, however, I started noticing a slightly stronger attraction to women than to men, and at the same time I discovered tumblr and was reading some blogs here that made me realize that I actually could be bisexual. Further research led me to the bi tumblr community and the realization that what I had experienced most of my life was a form of bi erasure that had kept me in the dark about my own identity. I am a cis woman who has had several romantic/sexual relationships with cis men, and have been married twice (currently married to my husband of almost 5 years). Starting in elementary school and through college, there were a handful of girls and women I developed intense emotional attractions to. I didn't have any point of reference or way to process those feelings, so I learned to not examine them too closely. At the same time, I would find myself paying close attention to the girls I thought were very pretty, thinking that I was just experiencing admiration or a desire to be like them. It actually didn't occur to me that what I was experiencing could have anything to do with romantic or sexual attraction. The internet wasn't really a thing until I was almost out of college, so I had no way to explore, research, or connect with anyone outside of my immediate social circles at that time. I grew up in a very Catholic household and went to Catholic school (I no longer identify as such) in the 80's and early 90's, and my parents had extremely conventional and repressive attitudes about sexuality and relationships. It also wasn't something that ever really came up among my circle of friends except in relation to who was dating who, and sexual orientation was something that was rarely if ever discussed. It was during my second year of community college that I first experienced very strong desire toward another woman. It came about in a very sudden and unexpected way that left me feeling very confused. I had a boyfriend at the time who I had a bit of a problematic relationship with and we were close to breaking up, and he had a female best friend that he was a little enamored with but she didn't see him that way. A group of us had tickets to a general admission concert at a club in Los Angeles where we lived, but during the show we all got separated and she and I were together at the front by the stage. We were clinging to each other to protect ourselves from crowd surfers as well as to keep from getting separated in the press of people around us. We were dancing together, and suddenly something shifted and there was an awareness of intense attraction. It became very sensual, and we held and caressed each other in a sexually-charged way. It was something I had only ever experienced with boys up until that point and I didn't allow myself to think about the meaning of it. I think I was afraid that if I brought conscious awareness to it, the moment would be lost, and I did not want it to end. When the show ended we separated and acted as if nothing had happened. I don't think either of us knew how to process that experience and assumed it was just a strange fluke, and we never discussed it again. Soon after, I graduated community college and went away to university. For several years I repressed my attraction to women, possibly due to what had happened and my confusion about what that meant. During our university years a few different friends acknowledged having same sex attractions or sexual experiences, but none of them identified as bi, at least not openly. There was a sense that they were just random experiences or experimentation. I had several friends who were openly gay or just coming out at the time, and there was more of a focus on that. There seemed to be this idea that people were either straight or gay, and the only people who could be considered bisexual were those who were equally attracted to and had relationships with same and different genders. Because of this prevalent attitude, I thought that my vague and nebulous feelings didn't count at all. Looking back at my past experiences through a bisexual lens has brought a strong clarity that was really missing before. Now that I can re-contextualize those feelings, they make so much more sense to me. I'm still in the process of sharing this with certain people close to me, especially those who had similar feelings/experiences. My husband and those I've shared with have been very supportive, but I'm really struggling with whether to ever be openly out, especially since I've come to this realization much later in life than the usual and it would make my already challenging relationship with my family much more so. Not to mention most of my friends and I are parents of young children, and family life and the needs of our children end up pushing our own personal needs and issues to the background, so it's very difficult to find opportunities to even bring things like this up. At the same time, I feel like being open about my experiences could be a way to fight against the erasure that I and so many others have experienced. I also want my son to accept the full range of human sexual and emotional expression as completely valid and normal, so that he never has to struggle with his identity or misidentify his feelings. Maybe after I "live in" my newfound identity a while longer, I'll be more comfortable about being open. Living in an area that is very open and accepting of people who identify as LGBTQ is also really helpful. In the meanwhile, I will enjoy the clarity and internal freedom that I am experiencing.

[bitalks]

Two Light Bulbs: My Bi Identity Journey

I don’t really remember having crushes on other girls growing up, in fact the possibility that I was not 100% heterosexual wasn’t even something that crossed my mind until I was a teenager.

The initial realization wasn’t really all that dramatic, in fact, upon reflection it could probably be classified as underwhelming.

The first time I can actually remember questioning my sexuality was when I think I was about 14ish. As a child and well into my teenage years i have suffered from insomnia, so what I would do while everyone was a sleep would be to sneak into the living room and watch TV late at night. One night I stumbled upon a rerun of Farscape, and when Claudia Black removed her Peace Keeper helmet it was like a light bulb had turned on in my head. All I could say was “Huh…” I was speechless, I thought she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen and my crush was born. After that light bulb moment I started to catch myself noticing other girls in real life and forming crushes on them as well.

At the time I didn’t know that it was possible to be attracted to more than one gender, so there was more agonizing over my self identification than anything else. I didn’t know what I was, but I knew what I wasn’t, and I can not even begin to tell you how many Are you gay?/How gay are you?/At what number do you fall on the Kinsey Scale? internet tests I took. The was a lot of “I CAN’T BE A LESBIAN!” and some “BUT I STILL LIKE BOYS! *sees a boy* oh he’s cute…YEP DEFINITELY STILL LIKE BOYS” and a little “SHES SO BEAUTIFUL! WE SHOULD BECOME SUPER CLOSE FRIENDS!!!” 

Then one of my friends came out as bisexual to our little group of friends, and it was like a second light bulb turned on in my head. I COULD LIKE BOTH! THERE WAS A WORD!

This is way more interesting and funny when I tell it in person, but I don’t have time to make and edit a video. Also can we submit video? Is that an option? I always feel like this story loses something when I tell this story in text based media.

[bitalks]

My bi identity journey (very mildly tmi)

I’ve always found it very easy to develop romantic crushes, from when I was seven or eight I can’t remember ever NOT having a crush on a boy. I’m a girl and my crushes were always boys, but when I was fourteen I was somewhat obsessed with a girl in my class - she was really pretty, really funny, she seemed really nice and dressed exactly the way I wanted to - I was incredibly jealous of her and everything she did and said, while also really wanting to get to know her better. This was in a new school and my social anxiety was at its peak, so I never really managed to talk to her more than once or twice. After becoming best friends with a bisexual guy I met (and only interacted with) online, I thought about it a bit, I thought “maybe I’m so obsessed with her because I have a crush? Maybe I’m bisexual?”, and those thoughts would come back sometimes every so often, but I mostly disregarded them because I had a crush on a guy at the same time, and they felt different, and “I guess I can never really know”. I eventually learned to disregard the thoughts so well that I never took them seriously. Around this time, maybe a bit later, I realized I’m a pretty sexual person - I had a lot of frequent fantasies, I always masturbated often, though I wouldn’t watch porn out of fear of people finding out, I did feel weird whenever I saw ads for sexy halloween costumes. To the point where I would browse and bookmark those “top 10 sexy cosplays” articles on random sites. I’m not sure why this never made me question my sexuality - I remember having entire folders (well hidden) with pictures saved of women modelling revealing outfits. At the same time, they would also make me incredibly jealous - I was incredibly self-conscious. I would get upset when I saw really attractive women, because I wished I could look like that. In the end I devised several excuses for my mixed reaction to these images - I decided that I’m very sexual and very attracted to guys, and that I subconsciously and automatically associated seeing women in revealing clothing with guys being really turned on, and that turned me on. “The idea of turning on a guy turns me on, nothing else.” After deciding on that excuse I conveniently stopped worrying about it, at times considering myself “bi-curious” but never ever to the point of actually mentioning it to anyone. Then, years later I had joined tumblr and gotten more versed in different sexual and romantic orientations, and I saw lesbian and bi women reblogging pictures of attractive female anime characters and tagging them “i’m so gay”. It annoyed me, because I felt excluded even though I felt attracted to those characters too - that’s when I realized how out of the ordinary my “heterosexuality” was. That was the first time I’d been really conscious of these feelings after finding out that sexual and romantic attractions can be two separate things, and so thinking about it for a few days, “heteroromantic bisexual” felt really good, it felt really right and it made sense of a lot of things that I didn’t understand earlier. This realization just happened this last summer, so I’m still very new to the thought that I’m not actually straight. On another note, since joining tumblr and learning about internalized misogyny and working on liking myself more, the jealousy went away and gave room for interest and curiosity (this happened way before the aforementioned realization). I’ve had several really intense “friend-crushes” on women and girls around my age - one particular on someone who I got to know before I got on tumblr, and so I initially hated her because she was so pretty and confident and funny and great, and then later had a really intense “friend-crush” on her for the exact same reasons - I still wish I could get to know her better, even though we haven’t spoken in almost a year. Since giving serious thought to the possibility of my bisexuality, I realized I might view and interpret these “friendcrushes” differently if they happened now. It may be that I’m romantically interested in women, and that it just manifests in a different way than my interest in men. This is one reason why I prefer the label bisexual for myself, rather than pansexual or polysexual. In the end, I have no idea whether I’m biromantic or heteroromantic, but in an effort to be as honest as possible and avoid accusations of “faking it” (even though I realize I’m playing right into heteronormativity), I’m going with heteroromantic until proven otherwise. This also means I have conflicting feelings on coming out to my family - on one hand, I love being bisexual, I have a lot of bi pride, I don’t ever want to be considered straight again. But on the other hand, as long as I’m still heteroromantic, declaring my bisexuality feels like it would be the same as discussing my sexual preferences with my family, something I would never dream of doing. I’m also insecure that I’m kind of reinforcing the stereotype that anything non-straight is simply about sex and not love. However, I did come out as bisexual very casually to my mom in conversation, and her reply was just “that’s not surprising”. I feel the exact same way - bisexuality just makes a lot of sense for me.

[serpensorti-a]

#BiTalks Topic 9: My Journey

Here goes nothing. . .

When was the first time you questioned your sexuality? What prompted it?

I think probably in late middle school and especially starting in freshman year. I'd always known I was attracted to guys (I'm female btw) and didn't think much of it, because that's what society thinks is normal. Once I reached that point however I had begun to be more aware of other sexual orientations beyond just gay and straight. It was around that point that I had started to really notice like, hot girls, and so I began to wonder if maybe I wasn't completely 100% straight. . . It was in sophomore year that this really became something I knew to be a fact.

What were the defining moment(s) of your journey? Did you have any support from someone? Share some nice stories with us, please :)

I think that there were two defining moments. The first being when I developed a massive crush on one of my female classmates, the second being coming out to my best friend. She's the only one who I've officially told, but she's been really supportive.

What, if any, other identities you considered before your current one(s)?

Just straight.

How figuring other parts of your identities related to figuring out your bisexuality?

Figuring out my own personal beliefs, in terms of social justice, politics and whatnot. Being more accepting and more socially liberal, along with general increased awareness, has led me to accept myself as I am.

If you’re in the middle of your journey and are still figuring yourself out, where are you at right now? What things are troubling you? What are the part(s) that you’re sure about?

I'd say that I'm not done with the process. I'm still young, and haven't really experienced relationships. I'm worried about coming out, especially if I find out later in life that I'm not bi. As of now, I'm pretty sure about myself, but everything I know is based off of crushes, gut feelings and looks. I'm still working on it :)