so. i've replayed the demo once more, and this scene baffled me at first, his indifference and displeased face like?? hello??? what happened to our knight in shining armour?? and then i realized it's one of the very few moments he lets himself be real.
it's clear that leander doesn't like getting involved when he might look bad to one of the parties, so this is such an honest and raw reaction when he has to act, when he has to choose between the loyalty of his followers and the potential gain of doing 'business' with mc, and he hates it. also the way he slides back into his good guy mode in the last sprite is just so tasteful 🤌
i think he chooses to take mc's side not because he likes them so very much, but because it's the path of least resistance: bloodhounds are most likely to stay loyal anyway, someone mentioning the senobium is obviousy not a big deal — well, not big enough to go into a fight with your leader, — and the bandaged hands, on the other hand (what a lame pun!!!!!!! sry), are a very promising tidbit (remember that information is currency). like i'm sure leander guessed there was something wrong with mc from the start, just didn't know the details. btw mc noticed his act — the practiced speech of help offering and his suspicion about mc needing a magical solution.
also i'd like to pinpoint that he's the only one eliciting that vital piece of information from mc to potentially gain leverage. it's not like we as players have any choice here but hear me out: even ais and vere (!!!) are showing some kind of respect regarding mc's hands. ais stops mc before they undo their bandages and vere is 'careful not to disturb them' when grabbing mc's arm. did leander reaalllyyyyyyy have to go that far (also if mc hesistates to touch him, he will grab their hand himself :DDD)??? he wants to make sure you need to trust him and him only like dude. i'm still not over the piece of a dialogue below i mean how can he be so honest and manipulative all at once?!?????
"you were right to hide this from me (but now i know). that curse of yours... it's unlike anything i've ever dealt with (i can't help you). i can tell you're discreet (praising) but you'd best not go showing that off to anyone else (so that only i know your secret)"
and the most fascinating thing? i don't think he's a genius mastermind or anything of sorts, he just gets people, operates on an intuitional level, it comes to him naturally, and most of the times he believes that he's doing good.
tl;dr leander is one of the most interesting characters i've ever come upon and it's captivating to see him slip out and back into his goody two-shoes persona and i hope we'll get more moments when he's raw and real soon 👀
Elizabeth Taylor, do you think it's forever? is a favorite moment of mine on showgirl. I think there are at least three interpretations: asking Elizabeth Taylor if either fame or her tumultuous love life (as a result of fame) will last forever, generally asking the world if she's going to be like Elizabeth Taylor forever, and asking if this specific relationship will last forever despite all the pressure. In the acoustic version, I feel a connection to the latter while the other interpretations I feel more when listening to the original version.
okay but the opening track being called the fate of ophelia and the cover featuring taylor submerged in water but it looks like she’s coming out of it not sinking into it
I know Taylor has each of her Eras as defined by each album, but does anyone else think of her Eras as categorized into even bigger eras? Like in my mind -> Debut = Prologue/First chapter of it all -> Fearless + Speak Now = young Taylor finding her footing and beginning her rise to fame -> Red + 1989 = coming of age/responding to heartbreak Taylor, as well as her rise into pop -> Rep + Lover = I mean, Joe era, obviously, but also Taylor learning what's most important to her, what will she protect, what will she take a stand on -> Folklore + Evermore = "I go to secret gardens in my mind" -> Midnights + TTPD + Showgirl = these are feeling increasingly like a trio to me, with Midnights being an excavation of unaddressed wounds and questions, TTPD being the direct result of this painful process, and Showgirl being light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.
Why Logan is NOT the Orange Side (but is being influenced by him)
The Logan is the Orange Side theory has been making the rounds after the new episode, for obvious reasons, and I’ve seen it enough that I felt the need to push back against it.
I am not trying to harass or insult anyone who believes this theory, and if it turns out to be true I will graciously eat the crow I ordered. But in the meantime, part of theorizing is arguing for and against fan theories, and where this one is concerned I am firmly against.
So, without further ado, here’s 5 reasons why Logan is being influenced by the Orange Side, and is not the Orange Side himself:
That’s Not How the Dark Sides Work
Dark Sides aren’t actually defined by being “dark”- “The Dark Sides” is a nickname Roman gave them and Virgil consistently corrects it to the Others- nor are they inherently different from the Core Sides. What makes the Dark Sides different is that Thomas views them differently; they’re sides he would “prefer not to know about”. What makes a Dark Side a Dark Side is Janus having hidden them away because Thomas didn’t want to accept them as himself, and any other shared qualities are either incidental or ultimately stem from that rejection.
Logan can’t just lose it and decide to be a Dark Side, because who is and is not a Dark Side is ultimately up to Thomas, and Thomas already knows and accepts Logan (and yes, Orange is a Dark Side- he was grouped with them in the svsr thumbnail). Instead, Logan going off the deep end himself would likely turn him into something more like LilyPadton. Even if Thomas suddenly decided he wanted to completely reject Logan- and I cannot see Thomas going that far- it wouldn’t spontaneously turn him into a different Side, it would just make him a Logic who wasn’t accepted.
The other option is for Orange to be some sort of suppressed alter-ego of Logan’s, which he would flip to when sufficiently angered/stressed. This would make Orange a Dark Side as he would have been hidden away from Thomas, but it also goes completely against the established worldbuilding. When Thomas decided to accept one part of Creativity and reject another, it resulted in Creativity splitting “into two parts during [Thomas’] development... Like an ovum.” Following that logic (ha), if there were a Dark Side counterpart to Logic, he should be Logan’s twin, not a Jeckyl-and-Hyde-esque alter-ego or Logan-but-orange.
It Messes Up the Rainbow
Remember this shirt?
There’s a flower for each Side, with a field of cherry blossoms underneath to represent Thomas. One flower corresponds to one color, which in turn corresponds to one Side.
But if Logan is also Orange, doesn’t that mean he gets two flowers? Why does Logan get two flowers when everyone else gets one, isn’t this whole series about balance? Shouldn’t there be, like, a flower that’s both blue and orange, or a blue one that reverses to be Orange on the back?
Why is Logan the only one who gets two colors? If the other sides went Dark would they change color too until we had a rainbow with way too many colors, and if not what makes Logan so special? Why does Logan get to be two Sides in one when Roman and Remus have to share Creativity?
Finally, there’s three ways the plotline could end: either it resolves with Logan reverting back to indigo and it turns out orange was never supposed to be part of the rainbow after all, Logan ends up integrating both colors and we have an orange-and-indigo flower in our rainbow, or he switches back and forth and we get a rainbow that can have indigo or orange but never both. Whichever way it goes, the rainbow is messed up.
There is Precedent for Sides Influencing/Acting Through Other Sides
Unlike the concept of one Side having two colors, the concept of Sides influencing each other, sometimes from offscreen, is one that has appeared several times throughout the series.
Most obviously, we have Janus, who can force the Sides to keep their mouths shut on certain topics, and did so episodes before he actually appeared.
We also have Virgil and Patton’s rooms which have a noticeable emotional effect on the other Sides. Virgil’s room even makes them take on aspects of Virgil’s appearance- the eyeshadow.
And finally, there are certain points where Remus actually talks through Roman. One that has been confirmed by the writers as foreshadowing Remus is this exchange:
Roman: May visions of sugarplums dance in your head... and hopefully not visions of your naked Aunt Patty.
Thomas: Okay! Thanks, Roman, for that unpleasant side comment.
Roman: Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't know where that came from.
So yes, Sides can impact each other’s emotions and actions. With this in mind it makes perfect sense for Orange to have been impacting or tuning into Logan’s emotions in That Scene, especially if he and Logan have some sort of connection.
Another thing supporting the “outside influence” interpretation is...
The Lighting
A couple people have pointed out that the lighting during the scene where Logan loses control is distinctly orange, in a way it isn’t at any other part of the video:
Now if the lighting turned orange as Logan became increasingly angry/upset, I might think it was him projecting this orange aura. But that’s not what happens- the orange lighting starts at the beginning of the conversation with Remus, around 20:00, Logan only starts showing clear anger around a minute later at 21:00, and his orange-eyed outburst is another minute later, around 22:05. The lighting doesn’t change at all in these two minutes, despite Logan’s mood noticeably escalating.
That doesn’t say the orange lighting was because of Logan to me. That says that there was an outside influence in the room, an orange aura with a pervasive feeling of frustration or anger that Logan fell into more and more as he spoke with Remus, until he finally gave in and for an instant was under its control.
The End Card
This one is a bit more of a stretch, but I thought it still was worth mentioning. The endcard has a pair of glowing orange eyes, matching Logan’s eye glow when he lost his temper:
The thing is, a pair of eyes in black like this has a pretty clear implication: that the viewer is being watched from the shadows. This fits perfectly with an episode where Orange was lurking behind the scenes, influencing other Sides with his glowing eyes. It feels a little… messier, if Logan is Orange. Logan himself wouldn’t be watching us menacingly like that, he’s got too much on his mind from the previous scene. Is Orange staring at us from inside Logan or something? Did Logan subconsciously switch over to being Orange just to stare at us from the shadows? Maybe I’m overthinking this, but it just doesn’t make as much sense to me with the Orange!Logan interpretation.
The Cost is Too High
This one is less of a "why Logan isn't Orange" point and more of a "why Logan shouldn't be Orange" point.
The introduction of a new Side opens up so much story potential. A new personality, a new character design and theme, new abilities, a new name, new interactions with all the other characters, new parts of Thomas to explore… it’s a veritable gold mine of content.
The Orange!Logan theory sacrifices nearly all that for more Logan angst.
Sure, the alter-ego thing would probably include some of that new content, but the Orange Side would still ultimately be a variation of Logan rather than a character in their own right. It would basically reduce the entire concept of the Orange Side to a plot device to get Logan development. And even if Orange was distinct enough as an entity to still get all the benefits of adding a new character, it would kinda defeat the point of having it be Logan in the first place. At that point you just have another character in Logan’s body, which is the worst of both worlds since you can’t even have him and Logan around at the same time.
And the thing is, you in no way need Logan as the Orange Side to get a fantastic Logan plotline with lots of Orange-related angst! He clearly has some sort of connection to Orange, and a plotline where Orange is related to him, or is influencing him through his bottled up anger, or any other situation where Orange throws him out of his comfort zone, would give Logan much of the same character development while also letting Orange exist as his own character and form unique relationships with others.
In fact, I would actually prefer a Logan character arc in which Orange was a different Side, because that way Logan could have all sorts of fun and dramatic interactions with Orange without having to pull a Smeagol and talk to himself (Side-ception?). And even if Logan being Orange would be a more compelling Logan plotline, to me it’s just not worth the loss of everything a new character could bring to the series.
I’ve seen some people discussing what Virgil’s purple eye shadow represents, so here’s my take:
From what we’ve seen in canon, Virgil’s eye shadow intensifies the more anxious he is, as a visual indicator for how hard his core function is “kicking in” at any particular moment. But when we’ve seen this happen in the past, it’s always been anxiety tied to negative emotions. In the end card, while he’s still visibly keyed up, it’s due to a flood of positive emotions rather than fear or distress.
So it’s not that we’ve never seen Virgil truly happy on camera before; it’s just that in the past, we’ve only seen him happy/smiling in moments when he’s fairly calm, and his influence as Anxiety is less pronounced. So it’s really cool to see not just a different side of Virgil, but a different side of Anxiety: instead of prompting fear, it’s powering a figurative runner’s high: the fluttery, adrenaline-rush, oh-my-gosh-I-can’t-believe-that-just-happened feeling.
I just really like the idea that Anxiety’s influence doesn’t have to be muted in order for Thomas to feel happy—that Virgil can be up to eleven in moments of joy as well as turmoil.
unpopular opinion, but im not really a big fan of the idea of the orange side being wrath or anger. while similar to inside out, the sides arent really emotions; rather, they are your different conflicting thought processes when you work through a problem. you have the side of you that is logical and knows the facts and tries to use reason to solve things, the side of you that focuses on your morals and tries to use steadfast loyalty to your values to solve problems. there is the side that is anxious and tries to use to make use of fear to protect u and solve the problem.
there are the sides of you that are creative that think of fantastical solutions to your problems, whether good or bad, that try to take you to your dreams and desires. with roman, this is with disney-esque tales and hopes that keep thomas going and having a reason to things. with Remus, I think it may be using the intrusive thoughts to get Thomas to slow down when thomas is overwhelmed and wants to rest, which makes sense bc, at least with me, ik when I have an uptick of intrusive thoughts, it usually means i need to rest and relax so I'll be less overwhelmed and take care of myself.
and there is the side that is deceitful and cunning and mean and self-centered as a means towards approaching your problems with your self-preservation as the primary thing to uphold. unlike morals which may tell you to share what you have, this deceitful side of you acts selfishlessly to make sure that you are put first, no matter the cost. which is why I think any anger or wrath would come from Janus. anger as an emotion is often an expression of self-preservation. you feel anger when you know you've been hurt and you lash out in anger to protect yourself. janus has lashed out a fair amount for the small amount of episodes he's been in.
by now, it's also fairly agreed upon that Janus and patton are opposites/counters as well as roman and remus. with both pairings, it's seen that you need a healthy balance between those two sides, those two lines of thought, to not completely fall apart.
i am a firm believer that anxiety is the counter or parallel or opposite of logic. your logical thought processes get so messed up when you're anxious and scared, and logical thinking is often used as a tool to combat anxiety. this was explored between Virgil and Logan very early in the series. virgils anxiety causes cognitive distortions that weaken logans logical processes in being listened to. logans logical thoughts are able to tame Virgil's anxiety when it's too strong. i think Logan and Virgil balance each other out. those are the two who make a healthy balance together which has been discusses, albeit briefly, early on (remember the Yerkes Dodson curve?).
this is why I think that whatever the orange side, the seventh side, is, it won't be a counter to anyone in specific, and it won't be wrath/anger. right now, orange is showing up when Logan is weakened in someway. when janus kidnaps him in svs redux, orange only shows up after that. when Remus messes with Logan in today's wtit and logan is frustrated and out of it, only then did orange come through. we don't know if orange can control other sides as well, but if it's like janus at all, where janus tries to remove logan and his rationality from the problem solving, there's a reason it would focus on messing with logic & rationality to achieve it's goal of however it helps thomas.
because remember, all the sides do what they think is best for thomas. the sides are the manifestations of his different thought processes driven by different outlooks that all have an end goal of trying to solve thomas's problem in that way. but in the end, it is always up to thomas to choose which thought pattern he'll listen to. thomas chooses what he will do based on the persuasiveness of his different thought processes.
(for example, c!thomas comes across a wallet on the sidewalk. morally, he thinks the wallet should be turned in to the local authorities at all costs no matter what. his self preservation instincts tell him to take the cash and leave the wallet behind since the detour would waste his time. his anxiety tells him to leave it alone so he wont get framed for stealing. good creativity/roman would make him imagine a grand heroic prize for tracking down the owner of the wallet and personally delivering it, and bad creativity/remus might make c!thomas imagine finding and killing the wallets owner so he can take all the money. logical thought would say for c!thomas to return the wallet to local authorities if he has the time to do so, and if not, to leave it be. these are all just the different thoughts running through c!thomas's head which can then be personified as sides, and whichever action he does is attributed to the side who had the most persuasive line of thought, but none of these lines of thought are trying to hurt thomas, it's all different ways of protecting/helping him.)
so whatever orange is, needs logic and rationality to be a bit disrupted before being able to be persuasive enough to be listened to. this doesnt really seem like anger/wrath to me. someone can be rational and angry (ie. planning a revenge later rather than hurting someone now, passive aggression, etc.) which all feels more like Janus things to me, and I think you actually need to be rational to use your anger effectively. going ham on someone without thought will not have the same effect as thinking about the best places to hit without them getting you back. anger and logic don't need to keep each other in check like deceit and morality or logic and anxiety; rather, they need to work together. i dont think logan would be opposed to a side that represented anger at all. and orange would not destabilize logan so much if it were anger.
plus, Virgil is the only side that really represents an emotion. but I think people generally always have a sense of anxiety and fear in their problem solving, but anger/wrath isn't always there. for a quick issue like a lost wallet, i can see how these other sides of thought processes can exist, but i dont know what anger would tell Thomas to do there since anger is just an emotion.
so the question is, what is a thought pattern that exists when solving problems that tries to protect/help you, while also needing to push away or overpower your sense of logic & rationality to be persuasive enough to be listened to? I don't have the answer to this but I'd love to hear what other people think about this! especially if u see flaws in my reasoning of why orange isn't anger, I'd love to know!
The thing about Sanders sides is that the more episodes there are, the more characters Bad Guy from the Ultimate Storytime becomes applicable to
like, first it was Virgil, obviously, then it became kinda applicable to Janus, even Patton, if you wanted to stretch it a bit, since they've all made big mistakes and hurt Thomas
But that song, no matter how well it first the others, seems custom-made for Roman.
Now, I have no idea what the plot for TUS is. I've tried to look it up, and yet as far as I know, (insert Joo Dee voice) There Is No Plot In The Ultimate Storytine, so I dont have any context for any of this lol.
the first lyrics are literally what happened with Virgil in season one, and then the whole wedding/callback ordeal
"You think you do the right thing
But incidentally
You find the whole world would prefer it
Differently"
He tried to go by Thomas's or Patton's way, and when they turned out to be wrong, he was the one to reap many of the consequences (not all of them, just...a lot of them)
"You go from being fair
To falling flat
You see what's there
You find you're at
The wrong end of the stick"
and then the next lyrics just hurt
"And you're starting to feel sick
Of when
The story drops you hard
Into the pavement"
He's so tired, you guys. He's inadvertently been the root of so many of their problems, and no doubt he blames himself for more! From the problems with Virgil, to aio, to the fiasco that was the nostalia episodes, then logic vs passion, and svs, and hhhhhhhh, he must think that he's so awful
"Even though you thought you knew what
"To behave" meant
But you find out you were thinking wrong
And you wind up back where you belong
And you try to get it right
But instead it just comes back
To bite you"
This is exactly what happened, you guys!!! He, because shunning Virgil had very bad consequences, he had an open mind with Janus! And when that was declared as Bad, he went to hating him, and now what? Everything is so much worse for him!!
"I never wanted to be the bad guy
The Bad Guy
The Bad Guy
Never wanted to be the bad guy
But that's just how the story goes..."
Literally the plot seems to be dead-set on him being in the wrong. Someone save him.
"It's a trip discovering
You're not the hero"
*cough cough*
"You thought you were Augustus
But you're Nero
And you're playing on your violin"
Y'all remember the tale of how Nero played the fiddle while Rome burned?
"You might say it's just
Your evil twin
But it's not some villain clone
No, it's you and you alone
To blame"
*COUGH COUGH*
"I never wanted to be the bad guy
The Bad Guy
The Bad Guy
Never wanted to be the bad guy
But that's just how the story goes
Bridge:
And it goes
And it goes
And goes
And goes
Just like balloons
Out of your hand"
He doesn't feel in control of...well, basically anything, right now. He basically had his Good Twin rights revoked, and he feels like they chose Janus over him, and then there's the troubles he's been having with Creating Content... he's not having a Fantabulous Friday rn
"The world looks up
While you sink in the sand
And you start to understand
That it can't be erased
If it's traced out in pen
Though you scrub it again
And again
And again
And again"
and god, he must think that no one cares, or that his grievious actions have made him unworthy of redemption. If three strikes means you're out, then he should be fuckin kicked out of the team by now, and, well... maybe he'll try to do it himself.
"I never wanted to be the bad guy
But that's just how the story-
I never wanted to be the bad guy
The Bad Guy
The Bad Guy
Never wanted to be the bad guy
But that's just how the story goes
I never wanted to be the bad guy..."
