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One leg UP

Hi, I was rewatching the spooky Bobby and Rufus episode from season 11, and I remember at the time people were convinced that this was the first appearance of The Empty, because at the time it had only been mentioned by Billie as a threat to Sam. I was wondering if that’s still the case, if that soul eaters Nest was in the empty? Because it would sort of make sense?

Hi there! and yeah, they did show us the Soul Eater’s nest during the season the concept of the Empty was first really introduced (in 11.02, by Billie threatening Sam with that fate, written by Andrew Dabb). At the time, we had no idea what the Empty would be like, and assumed it was exactly as Billie described it-- as complete annihilation.

I... personally didn’t think of the Soul Eater’s nest as a small version of the Empty, but perhaps a parallel or metaphorical comparison, at best. I was personally still convinced that the Empty would actually be more like what Amara described happened to the souls she “consumed” that would become “boundless within her” in a state of bliss. Combined with Billie’s threat to Sam that she would scatter his molecules so that he could never be brought back.

I was hoping for a version of the Empty that would be the “nothingness” version of Chuck’s heaven and hell-- basically the afterlife corresponding to the universal force of darkness the way Chuck’s creation corresponds to the universal force of light. I was hoping it would be a state of dissolution, rather than a place where consciousness could exist.

I think the closest a Soul Eater’s nest came to being what I had thought of as The Empty at that time was what happened to the souls trapped there when the Soul Eater had finished consuming them. Yes, its nest existed “outside of space and time,” and I do associate those characteristics with the Empty. But at the time the episode aired, before we understood the reality of the Empty, I thought of the Soul Eater Nest as more... “the Empty’s waiting room” than “the Empty itself.” If that makes sense?

Granted, when they finally did choose to show us the Empty on screen in s13, it ended up being quite different than we were expecting, and I have since wondered if they didn’t afterthought the original concept of the Empty into something more on par with the Soul Eater’s nest when they needed to stage scenes there. I mean, like I’ve argued over how Heaven has been presented in canon being the result of “they need to film in three dimensional space and therefore had to use visual shorthand to cover the described reality of Heaven, which is why we ended up with sterile white hallways instead of a maze of Dean’s perception of “open roads” for the Axis Mundi, and why all the “Surly Bobbies” appeared in that white hallway rather than how the Axis Mundi may have appeared to each of them that may have been entirely perceptually different.” They needed to film ~something~ that may have been implied to be... non-Euclidean space... but had to settle on thematic visual shorthand due to the limits of the human condition... if that makes sense >.>

So, yeah, I think if anything, the Empty fell into that category, and even the eventual presentation of it ended up quite different to the Soul Eater nest, which was also outside of time and space, but also necessarily tethered to a fixed location on Earth (the house where it collected its victims).

Lol, I love thinking about this sort of stuff :’D