#spn 11.16

[saltyhuntress]

11x16 | Safe House

[plainwater-pdf]

bobby x rufus // colorsnatural

[foxthefanboi]

11x16 - Safe House

[mittensmorgul]

Hi, I was rewatching the spooky Bobby and Rufus episode from season 11, and I remember at the time people were convinced that this was the first appearance of The Empty, because at the time it had only been mentioned by Billie as a threat to Sam. I was wondering if that’s still the case, if that soul eaters Nest was in the empty? Because it would sort of make sense?

Hi there! and yeah, they did show us the Soul Eater’s nest during the season the concept of the Empty was first really introduced (in 11.02, by Billie threatening Sam with that fate, written by Andrew Dabb). At the time, we had no idea what the Empty would be like, and assumed it was exactly as Billie described it-- as complete annihilation.

I... personally didn’t think of the Soul Eater’s nest as a small version of the Empty, but perhaps a parallel or metaphorical comparison, at best. I was personally still convinced that the Empty would actually be more like what Amara described happened to the souls she “consumed” that would become “boundless within her” in a state of bliss. Combined with Billie’s threat to Sam that she would scatter his molecules so that he could never be brought back.

I was hoping for a version of the Empty that would be the “nothingness” version of Chuck’s heaven and hell-- basically the afterlife corresponding to the universal force of darkness the way Chuck’s creation corresponds to the universal force of light. I was hoping it would be a state of dissolution, rather than a place where consciousness could exist.

I think the closest a Soul Eater’s nest came to being what I had thought of as The Empty at that time was what happened to the souls trapped there when the Soul Eater had finished consuming them. Yes, its nest existed “outside of space and time,” and I do associate those characteristics with the Empty. But at the time the episode aired, before we understood the reality of the Empty, I thought of the Soul Eater Nest as more... “the Empty’s waiting room” than “the Empty itself.” If that makes sense?

Granted, when they finally did choose to show us the Empty on screen in s13, it ended up being quite different than we were expecting, and I have since wondered if they didn’t afterthought the original concept of the Empty into something more on par with the Soul Eater’s nest when they needed to stage scenes there. I mean, like I’ve argued over how Heaven has been presented in canon being the result of “they need to film in three dimensional space and therefore had to use visual shorthand to cover the described reality of Heaven, which is why we ended up with sterile white hallways instead of a maze of Dean’s perception of “open roads” for the Axis Mundi, and why all the “Surly Bobbies” appeared in that white hallway rather than how the Axis Mundi may have appeared to each of them that may have been entirely perceptually different.” They needed to film ~something~ that may have been implied to be... non-Euclidean space... but had to settle on thematic visual shorthand due to the limits of the human condition... if that makes sense >.>

So, yeah, I think if anything, the Empty fell into that category, and even the eventual presentation of it ended up quite different to the Soul Eater nest, which was also outside of time and space, but also necessarily tethered to a fixed location on Earth (the house where it collected its victims).

Lol, I love thinking about this sort of stuff :’D

[holisticfansstuff]

Cried bitterly through Dean and Bobby's meeting in the Nest and then rewound it so I could cry again

[mittensmorgul]

Have I mentioned how much I love s11? Like before s14 aired, this was without question my favorite season of the entire series.

And after s14? I only love s11 more.

I watched 11.15 and 11.16 just now, and short of writing very long pieces about both episodes, I’ll just kinda use this space to point and flail in the general direction of s15.

(and now that I’m watching 11.17, I’m reminded how this episode feels like it was intended to come AFTER 11.18, and how to me it still feels like that’s where it should be, but how doing that it just... makes s11 kinda ott destiel-y... i mean, even more than it actually looked on the surface...)

(okay I confess there’s no real point to this, but I haven’t had time to type up proper rewatch notes in a while and I’m starting to feel guilty about that... I really need my real life to Stop That immediately, you know? But unfortunately I’m not seeing a reprieve anywhere on the horizon in that respect. >.>)

[mittensmorgul]

11.16, Safe House.

more blasts from the past in a wibbly-wobbly fashion. I’ve pointed and yelled at this episode for a lot of different things-- the spiral narrative most especially. We’ve been here before, we’ll be here again, because the baddie of this plot exists outside of time and space.

Sound familiar, s14 friendos?

it’s all connected, it’s all layered on the past, but every time the wheel turns, we’re treading the ground in a different way, we’ve learned new things about the universe and ourselves, and Sam and Dean are not the same people they were back in s5 when Bobby and Rufus originally tried to tackle the Soul Eater’s nest.

Originally they were only able to contain the entity, but it took another run at the thing in the unknowable future to actually seal the deal.

The important lesson was that they built on that knowledge from the past and literally found another, better way to solve the problem. This time, a very permanent solution. How relevant is this episode now post 14.20? I’d say... very.

[mittensmorgul]

I’m officially out into the early days of Dabb Era (masquerading as the end of Carver Era, but it’s clear that Dabb has already taken over at this point) on the tnt loop. And this scene from the end of 11.16 was just so reminiscent of 14.13:

[BOBBY leaves the house and heads to his car. He waves at the nosy neighbor, and gets in the driver's seat. He notices a bottle, with a note attached to it that says, "Fine, you Ass, you win, for now. Enjoy. R." BOBBY laughs. He gets out his journal to write about the case, when his cell phone rings.] BOBBY: Dean. You boys okay? DEAN: Yeah we're fine, Bobby, where the hell have you been? I've left three messages. BOBBY: Well, I was - DEAN: Look I got a possible lead on Lilith in Maine. But we're on a case in Reno, I texted you the address, so if you're done sitting on your ass…

To John waking up in his car, returned to the past and thinking his trip to the future was a dream:

[The Impala is parked near a lake. JOHN sleeps in the front seat. He’s back in 2003. His cell phone rings on the dashboard. He wakes up and answers the call.] JOHN: Dean. No, I’m okay. I just… I just had one hell of a dream. Yeah. No, it was a good one. I’m on my way back. I’ll see you soon.

And at first I thought, oh hey look at these two incredibly similar scenes between Dean on the phone in the past and his two father figures who’ve just unwittingly actually seen a far-future version of Dean.

11.16 was about the “Soul Eater,” whose nest where he brings victims to feast on their souls exists “outside of space and time.” A place where Dean and Bobby could see one another before being returned to their respective places in time. And 14.13 also exists as a weird not-quite-real pocket in space and time.

But then I realized... In 11.16, Dean was calling Bobby to check out a lead on Lilith because he and Sam were much farther away... in RENO of all places.

Which will become significant again in 12.01, the first “official” Dabb era episode, as the place where John and Mary were married. And also the place where Chuck apparently ditched Amara in 14.20.

The mention of Reno one episode before 11.17 just struck me as significant now, and should for anyone who still believes that Red Meat is somehow glorifying the toxic codependency between Sam and Dean. Y’all need to watch that again and actually pay attention to what the episode does as a whole... Bobo has long been Dabb’s partner in crime when it comes to the big thematic stuff, and they literally co-wrote 11.17, kind of unofficially-officially establishing their start point for the eventual endgame. Billie, Sam’s mysterious resurrection, Dean’s self-sacrifice to barter his life for Sam’s and Billie refuses basically telling him this is not a story that can work like this anymore. And this was BEFORE she became Death. She reminded him that his next destination was The Empty, but then... Dean didn’t die. This episode literally established the defining elements of the eventual subversion of the entire narrative, which we’re seeing finally come to fruition after s14.

Can you see why so many of us were THRILLED by 11.17, and the implications of it, even back then? Because it was NEVER about glorifying the “old story” of Sam and Dean trading their lives for each other. It was about the pointlessness of it on a cosmic scale. And Dabb establishing his own in-story Avatar as showrunner in Billie, the symbolic death of the old spiral narrative. He just needed to bide his time until all the planets aligned and could make the direct run at the ultimate subversion of the original author (i.e. Chuck as Kripke’s avatar).

It made me interested to know the history of Reno getting mentioned in the narrative...

2.19: Folsom Prison Blues. Reno isn’t mentioned in the episode, but the title is from the Johnny Cash song:

When I was just a baby, My Mama told me, "Son, Always be a good boy, Don't ever play with guns, " But I shot a man in Reno, Just to watch him die, When I hear that whistle blowin', I hang my head and cry.

Which is kind of interesting in the context of the episode taken with the context of all the later references. This was an episode where they deliberately committed a crime, deliberately got themselves “locked up,” not only to solve a case, but to help a friend who’d once saved their father’s life in wartime. At the end of the episode, yes, they stage their escape from prison, but their entire compulsion to help people they feel they owe even at the risk of their own lives or liberty, is sort of encapsulated in this episode. I can imagine Chuck’s fascination with these two, “my guys,” stars of his favorite show, choosing the selfless act this way when Chuck tried to keep forcing them to relive his opposite narrative-- one sibling over the other, one being locked up for all eternity while the other goes on happily creating the universe. The eternal conflict-sacrifice narrative... was always Chuck’s imposition on the Winchesters. Even Cain was confused by Dean’s choice in 9.11, not understanding why Dean chose to SAVE his brother rather than kill him, because Cain was living out just another version of Chuck’s story. This is why Sam and Dean are the exceptions, the version that Chuck just can’t understand, the ones who refuse over and over to accept that Chuck’s story must be *their* story. No matter how hard he’s tried, Chuck just can’t break their will. He can’t stop them from continuing to fight. Even now that Dean has broken and said yes to Michael. Even that couldn’t break his will in the end.

3.01: The Magnificent Seven. When Sam learns about Dean’s demon deal for his life, he begins trying to find ways to get Dean out of the deal and save his life. Tamara suggested to him that there’s a hoodoo priestess in Louisiana who may be able to help:

DEAN: Sam, no hoodoo spell's gonna break this deal, all right? It's a goose chase. SAM: Yeah, but we don't know that, Dean— DEAN (cutting him off): Yes, we do. Forget it. She can't help. SAM (trying to cut in): Look, it's worth— DEAN (speaking over SAM): We're not going, and that's that. What about Reno, huh?

And Dean tells him no, because if they try to get out of the deal, Sam dies. So said the demon he made his deal with, and Dean refuses to let that happen. He even refuses to tell Sam that fact yet, and diverts the conversation with the suggestion they go to Reno instead.

And this is the opposite of Chuck’s original choice, to sacrifice and lock up his sister so his creation could expand unfettered. Dean chose instead to sacrifice himself so Sam could go live that normal life he’d always dreamed of. This was just the beginning of the very long game Chuck would play with them...

Vaguely near the end of s4, and also 11.16:

Between April 17th - ~May 3rd, 2009: Bobby and Rufus investigate what they think is a ghost haunting a house in Grand Rapids, MI. Sam and Dean are in Reno

We never do learn more about the case they were working there, but it did give them a lead on Lilith. Remember that 4.20, the Rapture, takes place on May 3 that year, immediately after this point in the timeline. Castiel was about to try to reveal Heaven’s deception, and their role in breaking the seals to free Lucifer and was dragged back to be reprogrammed into an obedient soldier again. And he would break free of that two episodes later in 4.22, siding with the Winchesters over Heaven and sealing his own fate in a powerful display of free will.

8.21: The Great Escapist: One of the Biggersons locations where we see Cas pass through in his manipulation of quantum superposition to evade the angels is Reno, Nevada.

11.16: the other side of the “outside of time and space” meeting between s4 Bobby and s11 Dean.

12.01: Dean, in trying to convince a freshly resurrected Mary of his identity, and the fact that 33 years have elapsed since she died:

Dean: Dad told me. March 23, 1972 you walked out of a movie theater, Slaughterhouse-Five, you loved it. And you bumped into a big marine and knocked him on his ass. You were embarrassed and he laughed it off, said you could make it up to him with a cup of coffee. So you went to, uh, Maroni's, and you talked and he was cute, and he knew the words to every Zeppelin song, so when he asked you for your number you gave it to him even though you knew your dad would be pissed. That was the night that you met- Mary: John Winchester. Dean: August 19, 1975 you were married, in Reno, your idea. Few years later I came along, then Sammy.

14.20: Amara is, according to the Lying Liar Chuck, in Reno... while meanwhile Billie, Jack, and the Shadow are having a double-secret conference in the Empty while Chuck unleashes Hell on Earth.

I’m wondering if we’ll ever hear mention of Reno again...