#tvd discussion

[daze-stole-ur-milk]

TVD Au where Elena, Bonnie, and Caroline went on a road trip after Elena’s parents died. And accidentally kick started the plot. At first they try to keep their roadtrip going and by the time they realized that no the dangers weren’t going to stop attacking them. They can’t go home anymore in fear of bringing the chaos home with them.

But still the danger drags them back kicking and screaming anyways.

[scienter]

For anyone else needing Steroline-related positivity, I thought it was significant that Stefan's dream only had his son, and no mother, not even a mention of a mother. Like, the issue here for Stefan is, "I could have been a dad," not, "I could have had a life with Valerie."

Bingo. If Stefan was longing for Valerie as either a wife or a baby-mama, I’d think that he’d had been shown longing for it. He hasn’t. 

I also find it curious that Valerie hasn’t been in any of the flash forwards …

[scienter]

I think there's a LOT more going on with the "engagement" between Caroline and Alaric than fandom is assuming. The way Damon said "fiance," almost like he was spitting it out, was weird to me? He also said, "Stefan's being hunted and it's only a matter of time before Caroline's used as the bait to lure him out" so I definitely think SC is still romantic on both ends. I'm not an overly optimistic person LOL it's just there are some very obvious clues there that all is not as it seems.

The way Damon said "fiance," almost like he was spitting it out, was weird to me?

OMG you caught that too? Phew! I thought that Damon had a weird inflection when he said fiance, but I wasn’t sure if that’s what I wanted to hear or it’s what I actually heard. lol 

I think you’re absolutely right that there is more to this story. JP said that the flash forwards wouldn’t make sense until episode 15. The fact that Stefan is being hunted & everyone is split up makes me think that a lot they’re lying low/in hiding. The writers are teasing us with the flash forwards, and building up to something. It’s frustrating because the future darker than what we may want, but like Harvey Dent says: it’s always darkest before the dawn. 

[scienter]

Okay so I've just watched 7x05 and other than the obvious SC confusion it caused me, there was something else that stood out to me. Since Lily is not really the big bad but Julian is, they needed to give the Salvabros reaons to hate him even before they met him. Bcz why would they care otherwise? So Damon's motivation is to hurt Lily like she hurt him and Stefan his unborn child. Can I be honest? Arent both reasons kind of lame? Not lame in the sense that they are not valid reasons to hate him

but we needed two whole separate sl’s and 7!!new characters to make it happen. I would have prefered to just have Lily (andthe phoenix stone) be the big bad, just have her be manipulative andemotionally abusive, it would have held more weight since she is their mother Iguess. Now we have to care abt Julian and Valerie and it’s kind of getting outof hand I think. What is your opinion on Lily not being the big bad and allthese new storylines and characters? 

I think I understand what you mean by “lame”. IMO thisgoes back to @sterolinetheories‘ complaint about Valerie:

“Valerie is, similarly to Matt, but even to a larger degree, nota character at all, but a one-dimensional plot device. I hate that the writerschose to not tell us anything about the character besides what pertains toStefan’s past. She is nothing beyond Stefan in the narrative - she has voicedno other interests, opinions or feelings except Stefan and her fear/hatetowards Julian. There is nothing about her personality that is not stemmingfrom those few weeks in 1863 where she met a boy, fell for him, got pregnantand killed herself. She was about 22-24 when that happened, and spent another 40years in Europe afterwards, but it doesn’t seem like it at all. I cannot pickup anything else about her, and I feel like her character suffered for itbecause I can’t humanize her - Valerie remains as cardboard to me as most ofthe time Matt is.” [x]

I concur that Valerie’s development leaves something to bedesired. We don’t know much about her outside of the Stefan/Julian/the miscarriage.Because of that she feels contrived to just further the plot. That could be theresult of only being 5 episodes in, but even Katherine had a history outside ofStefan & Damon before we learned that she was running from Klaus (Pearl washer best friend, she wanted the moonstone to break a curse, she was Elena’sdoppelganger, etc.).  

Although I do feel like Stefan & Damon’s hatred for Julianfeels a little contrived, I don’t mind having Julian as another baddie. It justadds another layer Stefan & Damon’s mommy issues.

Can you imagine Julian doing this with Stefan & Damon? Oh god. lol

Also, I wasn’t expecting that Lily was going to be the Big Bad.There is always a Bigger Bad by the end of the season. Lily (and by extension Julian & Valerie) was simply going to getthe ball rolling. They’re just there to open Pandora’s Box. They aren’t the scary shitthat comes out of it though.

BTW- it hasn’t escaped my notice that Lily, Julian, & Valerie aren’t in the flash forwards. Indeed, the Huntress appears to be the Big Bad in the FF.

[scienter]

I find it funny when people say "if they aren't together in 3 yrs, whats the point?" my theory is if its critical enough to be an FF storyline all its own that more than likely means there is a continuation to the story that will have them BE together at the end. I'd be more worried if they painted a picture of happy SC in FF bc all that would mean to me is that sh*t is going to hit the fan once we catch up to the future. I say the fact that SC is apart in FF is is actually a GOOD thing!

Word. The flash forwards aren’t theend of the story. They are simply closer to the climax of the story. This is critical to remember because the obstacles are the most challenging for the characters to overcome at the climax. That’s why everything is shit in the future. Steroline’s Relationship Obstacles don’t get any bigger than Caroline’s engagement to someone else. It isNOT the end, however, because the story doesn’t end until the character resolves their problems (either in their favor or not). Stefan &Caroline not being together in the FF isn’t something to worry about because theycan still reunite. Besides, all TVD couples have split up at somepoint. It’s naive to believe that Steroline would be an exception.

[scienter]

Blowing up your inbox tonight. What I find funny about Valerie, is that most of the fandom doesn't see it as one sided. Not once did Stefan say anything to first love, true love, etc. That was all her, her words, her assumption that he was these things. Which he may have been to her, but nothing they showed us regarding Stefan (at least to me) had him reciprocating any of these feelings. She was someone he knew once. While he was someone that lead to the worst thing that ever happened to her.

I know! There was so much projection- not just from Valerie but from viewers! I mean this was Stefan’s face when Caroline first mentioned her name:

I don’t know how Stefan’s reaction even comes close to how he reacted with Rebekah:

I honestly don’t know how either Valerie or the fandom interpreted Stefan’s behavior as reciprocal. Maybe I’m just such a Stefan Salvatore shipping whore that I read Stefan’s behavior differently than others? We saw him tell Katherine that he loved her twice before she compelled him (yet people still think that he never loved her O_o). Accordingly, I think if Stefan had fallen in love it would be explicit. It’s not. It’s not even implied. It’s all so bizarre because there was nothing that makes me think that Stefan ever fell in love in Valerie. 

[scienter]

I love the theme of "Well, she has our girls, we will stand together to bring them back." I have a question (although I think I have the answer) Why do you think Damon is concerned about Caroline? What opinaste on the scene between Lily and Enzo? Do not you think it was a little (a lot) lurid?I'll bet my nail of my little finger, that Enzo is engaged to Caroline (even if it displeases me). You think Lily want to have our Care Bear on his side?. Kisses,Dorian

Hi, Dorian! Sorry thatit took me a couple days to answer, but I had to find some time to re-watch theepisode.

I like that Damon andStefan are linked by a similar problem as well. It’s reminiscent of season 2 or3 when their purposes / conflicts overlapped. I enjoy seeing Stefan & Damonworking together to solve a crisis.

I think that Damon’sconcerned about Caroline because she’s part of the Mystic Falls Gang (i.e. on his side) and because Stefan’s got a thing going on with her.This isn’t new direction for Damon either. Although Damon & Caroline don’tenjoy each other’s company, Damon’s saved Caroline before (E.g., when thewerewolves kidnapped Caroline in 2x13 or when Klaus locked Caroline up for thesacrifice in 2x20). I think what it boils down to is that Damon will protectpeople in Mystic Falls from outside threats because it’s his town. Damon does have some loyalty /appreciation /fondness for the people of Mystic Falls. Whether it’s Sherriff Forbes, CarolLockwood, Bonnie Bennet, or Caroline Forbes Damon has been shown to getprotective of them when they are threatened by his enemies.

On a second watchingof that scene it does seem to be a little lurid. Enzo caressed Lily’s hair, andnot in a platonic or familial way. In fact, he said, “I’m not here to be one ofyour children” right before he caressing Lily’s hair. I perceived this as asexual /romantic gesture.

I doubt that Enzo is engaged to Carolinebecause he was the one who kidnapped her and allowed to her to be tortured. Ithink that Enzo is on Caroline’s Shit List for good. Lol

I don’t think thatLily would want Caroline on her side. Lily seems content with the “family” ofheretics that she has now. Other than Enzo (who she has a past with) she doesn’tseem interested in enlarging that group. Lily is obsessed with her “family” ofheretics- she even rejected her own birth sons in their favor. She has herlittle “family” and that’s all the people she has shown any affection orinterest in.

[petersheart]

the only reason im not angry about kai getting killed off is that i did not want to see him become some romance redemption half ass plot