#ultimate dc

[why-i-love-comics]

New History of the DC Universe #4 (2025)

written by Mark Waid art by Hayden Sherman, Howard Porter, Giovanna Niro, & Chris Samnee

[strangeduckpaper]

Chewing on ideas for an "Ultimate DC" AU like the newer Ultimate Marvel. I maintain that this is different than Absolute DC because Absolute makes heroes the "small chaos" while Ultimate Marvel is an attempt to wipe them out entirely.

Thus, there's some Maker-esque figure (Lex Luthor? Reverse Flash? Kronos? Randall Dowling from Wildstorm's Planetary is technically the Maker in 6160 two decades early, so maybe this is connected to Earth-139?) preventing the Silver Age and beyond heroes from emerging, though I imagine the Golden Age stuff still happened. So, any ideas on how that goes? I'm thinking, Kal is intercepted and kept in stasis (Maybe a little older), Wonder Woman somehow gets exiled while Themyscira remains in seclusion, and Batman, if they exist, isn't Bruce Wayne, because Bruce Wayne died in that alley with his parents.

...Jeez that got dark quickly.

[thevindicativevordan]

If DC is to a "Ultimate DC" for Superman? What would be your preferred vision / direction for Superman and his mythology? In other words, how would you handle an "Ultimate DC" Superman?

If DC has greenlit this, it's 100% because of the success of Hickman's Ultimate Marvel relaunch. Therefore the logical thing to do is take a look at what Hickman has done. His Ultimate line is a success in part because it serves as a contrast to the main 616 universe, while also throwing in a few genuine curveballs to attract interest. Approaching an Ultimate Superman with that mindset, here's his status quo as I would establish it:

First off: Put him in a different suit. The only complaint I have with regards to Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man is that he's wearing the classic suit with a slightly different spider symbol. I get that 1610 Peter was the same, and Hickman is simply following tradition, but I think that if you plan on having an alternate counterpart to your main hero exist on an ongoing basis, their costumes should be different enough to let anyone identify who is who at a glance. For an Ultimate Superman, that means a different s-shield and no trunks. Let the Earth 0 guy wear the classic outfit, and put Ultimate Superman in something like the pic above. Also incorporate some of the New 52 designs that marked him as younger, like the messier hair.

Earth 0 Superman serves as the head of an extended "family" who wear variations on his crest and share in his mission. Ultimate Superman therefore should be a loner, at least at the start. No Kara, John Henry Irons, Kon, Kenan, or any other fellow Supers. No World's Finest partnership or Justice League either, I want Ult. Supes isolated.

Hickman gave us a married Spider-Man to contrast with the eternal bachelor 616 Spider-Man. Therefore the Ultimate Superman should be the eternal bachelor to his married mainline counterpart. Therefore if he's dating anyone it should not be Lois. Pair him with Lana or a villain like Livewire/Maxima, make a new OC love interest, don't have him dating anyone at the start, whatever. But we've seen Clark and Lois together as boyfriend/girlfriend and as husband/wife, don't immediately rush into that here. Keeping this Superman free to date others helps keep him unique and worth reading on an ongoing basis.

Against my wishes, Pa and Ma are alive again on Earth 0. Fine - kill them off here. Again, Earth 0 Superman has the large family, Ultimate Superman is a loner.

Keep the power levels low. My preference would be to have this Superman starting off at Golden Age/early New 52 levels of strength. He can't fly, can't bench press a planet, can't liquify concrete with a glare, can't hear a bird squawk a galaxy across, he's a street level hero who's basically Spider-Man tier. Earth 0 Superman is insanely powerful thanks to PKJ buffing him, let's make this guy more grounded.

We need a few wild curveballs like how Hickman killed Aunt May but kept Uncle Ben alive on Earth 6160, or how Peter and Harry don't know each other at all. My approach? Ultimate Clark does not work for a news organization, not a traditional print/legacy one anyway. He does not work for the Daily Planet, or even the Daily Star, he works as a writer for the popular podcast Wired In With Williams, hosted by Leslie Williams and exclusively licensed by CatCo (major entertainment/new conglomerate owned by CEO Cat Grant). Lois and her comrades at the Daily Planet are Clark's rivals, the dying remnants of traditional journalism who are giving way to the "new media". I would defy tradition by not having Clark ultimately join the Daily Planet - instead the Planet ultimately closes it's doors and it's Lois and her co-workers who find their way to Catco.

Jimmy is not a photographer, he's a vlogger and an incredibly popular one too. Everyone loves seeing him investigate weird shit that frequently results in Superman showing up to bail him out. Clark also helps script Jimmy's videos like he does with Leslie, and the two are close. They were roommates but Jimmy ended up moving somewhere nicer while Clark remains living in Suicide Slum.

Current Superman run makes heavy use of Lex - therefore I'd buck tradition again and not have Lex be featured for the first year. Instead, Ultra-Humanite and his Intergang, Red Cloud and the Invisible Mafia, and the secretive group known only as the 100 serve as the criminal foes Superman must face, with Maggie Sawyer and her Special Crimes Unit hunting Superman for his vigilante activities.

Earth 0 Superman is beloved and trusted, Ultimate Superman is hated and feared. People do not like or trust this freak, even the common folks Superman is trying to protect. He's viewed as a dangerous outlaw with uncertain motives. At the start people do not know he's an alien, most believe him to be a human with superpowers.

Instead of the North Pole, Superman's Fortress is in a pocket dimension called "The Phantom Zone", and he is able to teleport there via a "signal watch".

This is the basic building blocks for how I would approach creating an "Ultimate Superman". It's a status quo that is recognizably Superman, but also different enough from the mainline version to intrigue.

[justice-forever]

[davidmann95]

Which of these would you read most to least: Batman by Orlando and Nguyen, Superman by king and sprouse, Wonder Woman by Aaron and Jorge Jimenez, Flash by Gillen and mckelvie, green lantern by slott and alldred, aquaman by Ewing and manapul? Also, if you were put in charge of creating an ultimate dc line, what would it look like and who would be put on the books? And what would your ideal batman lineup look like?

Green Lantern < Batman < Wonder Woman < Aquaman < Flash < Superman. For Ultimate, I already consider All-Star to be Ultimate DC in every meaningful way, so here’s what I’d pick for other books in that line.

For Batman, I came up with what I’d do there awhile back right after putting together my ideal Superbook line. Like Superman, this is about concepts that could conceivably be sustained and hold together a line long-term (though the last few titles here would actually be parts of other ‘lines’ in my ideal DC even as they star Batman), but since people’ll want them I’ll throw creative teams on top.

Batman: The Dark Knights: The lead title, starring both of our Batmen in my version of Gotham: Bruce as the grumpy guy in black-and-gray body armor, and Dick in the blue-and-gray with the yellow oval and trunks as the all-out superhero, working together against threats too massive or multifaceted for a single Batman to handle alone. Big, Snyderesque threats to the city and indeed the world, with long-simmering threats and serious consequences; I’d attach Jason Aaron and Jason Fabok to this.

Batman in Detective Comics: Bruce’s solo book (though characters do pop in and out here, primarily Bluebird and Catwoman), this is the ‘traditional’ title of Batman as a grim avenger of the night against relatively traditional threats in 3-6 issue bursts, with some subplots ever boiling in the background. I’d give this to Christopher Priest, who’s wanted Batman forever and more than has the chops, and Clay Mann.

Batman and Robin: The return of the greatest Dynamic Duo of all with Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin, this is Detective’s springy, neon-soaked, bizarre superhero counterpart; same ‘3-6 issue adventures with background subplots’ format, 180 degrees the other direction in execution. This is also the return of the Tim Seeley/Javier Fernandez team, getting to go all the way here into all-out Morrison action territory the way they were frustratingly held back from most of the time on Nightwing.

Batman: One (or two, three at the outermost limit)-shots centering on either or both Batmen, continuity-lite and accessible on the understanding that this is what a casual reader is most likely to pick up. This shares the same team as my Superman from that line, with Tom King writing and a number of artists, with Mikel Janin and Mitch Gerads on permanent standby (they could alternate between the two titles). And get Warren Ellis to drop in from time to time to do whatever he wants here.

Batwoman: As far as I’m concerned this is working fine as-is, and I’d keep Bennett with Fernanco Blanco. I’d add a bit more of a supernatural touch to her threats to distinguish her further from the rest of the family, but that’s it.

Batwoman and the Gotham Knights: The direct continuation of James Tynion IV’s current Detective Comics run, which I’ve come to appreciate a great deal (though Tim Drake is replaced with Oracle, and Batman himself is out entirely as he’s handed the operation over to Kane and Gordon). Eddy Barrows remains on art, with Black Bat/Orphan, Clayface, Batwing, Azrael, and maybe The Signal making up the core, with the likes of Red Hood and Huntress and maybe Midnighter popping in from time to time.

Catwoman: She’s marrying Batman, so yeah, she should probably be getting her own title again. I understand Genevive Valentine and David Messina’s recent run with her was well-received and much-missed, so I’d put them back here.

Batman and Robin: The Caped Crusaders: An ongoing flashback title set in Bruce and Dick’s years as Batman and Robin - with Barbara as Batgirl often guest-starring - so that those toys can be played with in perpetuity while allowing characters to move on elsewhere, this would be deliberately fun and fanservicey as hell, and I’d put Steve Orlando and Alvaro Martinez on it.

BATMAN!: The all-ages Batman title, by the All-New Wolverine team of Tom Taylor and David Lopez.

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight: The ‘prestige’ Batman book, with major creators and fan favorite up-and-comers getting to do whatever they want, whether it’s mature readers, massive stylistic shifts, or out-and-out Imaginary Stories, continuing the tradition of Batman: Black and White and Solo.

Batman Beyond: Hard to choose between this and a Batman 666 title, but I gave in to the lure of a proven quantity. Terry trained by Damian in a new vision of the future (with occasional flashbacks to Damian’s Batman days), this is by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, whose weird action sci-fi take on Batman in general, bolstered by FCO Plascencia’s neon pinks and oranges, would be a better fit for this future Gotham than they ever were for the traditional one, fleshing out Terry’s world and rogues gallery like never before and lending this title the star power it would need to succeed.

[thevindicativevordan]

If "Dawn of DC" isn't doing very well, why would an Ultimate DC do any better? The fans are used to alternate universe versions, DC doesn't really have any "Peter and MJ married" silver bullet like Marvel and while Scott Snyder is popular, I don't think he is on the same level as Hickman (it's not that hard to be a top-seller if you are always writing Batman/Joker storylines). I see it going the same way as Earth One.

Because it would be an easy jumping on point. Plenty of people dismissed Hickman’s Ultimate Marvel reboot as a bad idea. They were wrong, it’s attracted genuine attention and excitement. It’s fun to get in at the start on a new universe with premiere talent, especially when the main universe is lethargic and boring. Besides if it’s what Scott Snyder wants to do, and he’s putting together a roster of talent to do it, there’s no reason not to let him take a stab. Unlike the New 52 this isn’t replacing the main universe, and it would benefit some of the ideas they’re trying on Earth 0 right now.

You want to see the Titans as the main hero team? Well let’s have the inevitable JL book launch on another Earth, because the sales are too soft for the League to stay gone much longer. Upset about all the continuity contradictions caused by the Crises’? Instead of yet another doomed attempt to straighten things out, let’s just reboot everyone on another Earth to create a clean starting point. Tired of all the new legacy heroes and shared mantle holders? New Earth means we don’t have more “family members” than we can actually support books for. We can trim everything back down to the core again.

Earth One didn’t fail because the idea of an “Ultimate DC” is inherently doomed to fail. It failed because they didn’t get the books out on a consistent schedule, every creator did their own thing which defeated the purpose of putting them all on the same Earth, and the New 52 rendered the whole endeavor moot because it radically revamped the main DC heroes anyway. Let Snyder try, worst case scenario is it fails, but since it’s a different universe it’s failure wouldn’t impact the mainline. If it succeeds it gives DC a badly needed boost in sales and attention.

[thevindicativevordan]

What writers would you like to be involved in Ultimate DC, and what characters do you see them writing?

Ones I'd like to be involved are different from the ones I think will be involved. Or at least we're definitely not going to see the writers I'd want to get certain books actually get them. Here's my ideal lineup:

Ultimate Superman - Dan Watters & Rafa Sandoval. Watters can do brighter superhero fare, he did that with Jon for Future State, but I'd want him to lean into his horror/darker sensibilities here. Williamson is already delivering a solid "fun" Superman book, I want this one to get dark, to get political, to have something to say. Also want it to be more grounded than the mainline Superbooks. Sandoval I just adore as a Superman artist and want him to stick around.

Ultimate Batman - Jason Aaron & Doug Mahkne. My initial pick was Christopher Priest, but I reconsidered. Still would like to see Priest do a Batbook somewhere, but right now DC needs a solid Batman book that attracts excitement. Aaron and Mahkne are delivering exactly that with Off-World, it's just been lost in the sea of Batbooks DC churns out. Put 'em on this and let it be the anchor of the line.

Ultimate Wonder Woman - Kelly Thompson & Vasco Georgiev. Thompson wants to write WW and Georgiev is a Jimenez clone which fits Thompson's sensibilities as a writer. Maybe go for a lighter tone as a contrast with King.

Ultimate Authority - Si Spurrier & Montos. Gimmie the gritty dark superhero book about bastards popping other bastards heads.

Ultimate Shadowpact - Gene Yang & Xermancio. Normally DC's magic books are some of the darkest in the line, but I thought we could invert that for this incarnation. Yang doesn't do dark, but he could be the one to showcase the breadth and wonder of magic. Gene Yang has a lot of knowledge about magic and theology, plus he knows how to write team books. Xermancio is obviously a fantastic artist who is going to be the new Reis now that Reis has left DC, and he already drew JLD with Ram V.

Could easily cast more, but 5 ongoings is enough as a start. Hickman's new Ultimate Universe seems to be restricting itself to four, just like the original Ultimate Universe, I'd prefer if Scott Snyder's UU likewise restrained itself at first..

[davidmann95]

I've decided to become a supervillain and will start with small but sure successes, and torturing people with existential questions seems like a fine enough start. If you HAD to choose which one gets a fully stacked budget and overblown marketing push while keeping their spirit and creators, would you rather Wizard's Ultimate DC or Earth One? You may not opt out, you must choose one. So with those conditions, please now imagine this anon laughing evilly, lightning striking in the background.

If you’re trying to set out on the road to being the next Jigsaw Killer, there are definitely worse places to start.

If I had to make the toss-up though (here’s my barely-believing recap of Wizard’s “Ultimate DC” concept), definitely Ultimate DC. Superman: Earth One and Ultimate Wonder Woman would have I think been similarly catastrophic, but Superman/Batman/Green Lantern/Flash all just look bland as opposed to Batman: Earth One’s wrechedness or Teen Titans: Earth One’s general lifelessness, the Justice League book sounded kinda fun, and the Teen Titans book, while obviously ridiculous on the surface, could have been weirdly ahead of its time in some ways.