#unknown (mm)

[dailysaeran]

The assistant and her bratty emo bottom boss who didn't even get the chance to take his boots off before she pushed him onto the bed 🤭

Minor change to OS!Sunset's style because I wanted to make the tips of her braids pink 😈

[mariyami5]

Saeran in its Christmas DLC 🌲 Mystic Messenger

[dandelionshine]

Psst gamers, my craft zone x Koahoana's Ray, Seven, and Saeran plushies are so close to reaching the needed amount of plushies for manufacturing!!

if you like Ray, Unknown, or Seven and want a cute plush to take with you on your travels go go go!!! 🗣️

https://mycraftzone.com/products/unknown-ray-and-seven-plushies?variant=63583327617373

[marshmallowprotection]

how do you think Ray, Suit, and Unknown interact differently with other believers? If they were in a situation where that was necessary, etc.

It always depends on the context. They may be flippant, beliergent, nonchalant, dismissive, indifferent, or non-conmittal. We know what Ray and Suit Saeran are treated like by other believers, and we know how they treat them in return. Ray doesn't mind telling others what to do because that's his job. But, it's apparent that Ray doesn't have any control the minute you see Rika order her guards to drug him.

Those believers are trained not to care about him. They stand there, make sure he drinks himself half to death, and then leave him to pick up the pieces. So, while Ray can pretend he has control, he has none whatsoever. I don't think he has any reason to hate other believers. It takes too much energy to hate others when he has to focus on hating Saeyoung and V, after all. So, he simply doesn't care about them. The feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

As long as they don't bug him or get in the way of being with you, then there's no doubt in my mind that Ray tolerates the believers when he has no choice but to interact with them. He wants to be away from them, given that the only time he interacts with people, they either scoff at him or drug him, so you can presume he stays on his best behavior to avoid coming into contact with believers. I think he might be okay with a few of them since he has to trust someone enough to bring you undrugged food, but that trust is only so deep in a cult.

Ray's not incapable of building bonds with his fellow believers; the problem is the fact that most of them would rat him out for a corn chip.

Suit Saeran doesn't trust any of them as far as he can throw them. He screams, he shouts, and he cries at them until they're either scared of him or they want nothing to do with him. He's acutely aware of what Ray does not want to be. He knows they can't trust the believers for a second, and this is why he reacts the way he does the second any of them get close to him. He needs to be strong enough that Rika won't think of telling them to drug Ray OR him again.

He doesn't hate them. He knows they're being manipulated the same way he was. It's a feedback loop. They can't get better unless they all admit Mint Eye is bad... but if you say that, they'll drug you until it's the only thing you believe. So Saeran treats the believers the same way he's been treated. He won't get close to any of them out of fear that they'll use what he told them against him.

The worst thing when it comes to him is that he won't hesitate to attack first if need be. But he lives in a world that doesn't offer him the chance to live otherwise. When the believers punish someone, Saeran's there. It's not clear if he's lying or not, but he tells you that he's the one who's punishing the person in trouble. I think the more likely answer is that he's standing nearby, involved but not the ring-leader, because he needs to look strong. It doesn't excuse it, but it's the only thing he thinks will protect him.

I think the only way you'll see him act differently around his fellow believers is in recovery. So GE Suit Saeran would be the one who would change his reactions... It's just not possible for the one in Ray Route to do that. But this interaction will be expected. An apology, a step in the first direction, and a listening ear.

We don't see much of Unknown's relationship to the cult, but from what we do know, I can tell you he's isolated. Rika doesn't bother to drug him the way she used to. He mainly takes care of that himself, but that doesn't mean she doesn't hurt him at all. She still does, but the capacity is different because she's given up on trying to use him to make herself feel better about what she did to his mother. It's far more likely that his punishments happen because she's tired of this "monster" she created.

I can see him pushing other believers around, and them hating him because of it. I just can't imagine anyone's sympathetic to Unknown in Mint Eye the way they might've been of Ray, and even to a lesser degree, Suit Saeran. Why would he want to build anything with the believers? All he cares about his revenge and getting rid of himself after said revenge. The nicest you'll see him be to a believer is if the person brings him something useful to his mission.

He's self-destructive no matter how you dice it, so if Rika told him to play nice with his fellow believers, it would backfire. Even when he's trying to manipulate Vanderwood, MC, and Saeyoung in the Secret Ending, he does a pisspoor job at convincing them that he's not the threat they think he is. It's Saeyoung's inability to see him as capable of cruelty that gets them captured, mind you.

There's a reason he doesn't have a route, folks. I love him, but I gotta say, I struggle to see him being nice to another believer. This isn't to say that he can't be, but he would have the hardest time out of these three.

[pastelsapphy]

something i noticed about suit saeran: of all his sprites (suit, ray, unknown, dunno if GE/RAE has a new design I'm not there yet) he looks the smallest. i assume the sprites are all the same size but suit doesn't have any... extra padding i guess? Visually there's more to the design that makes them look like they take up more space (even if they don't). it's like when you give your pet a bath or they have to be shaved for some reason and they look Flattened. they're the same size but the visual cues make your brain go "oh, Smaller."

Yeah after messing around with a photo editor, the outfits on his other sprites are definitely bigger/bulkier (From left to right: Suit layered over Unknown, over Ray, and suit on his own.)

Unknows jacket definitely adds some bulk to him, making his sprite "wider"/his body appear less skinny. Ray's suit jacket comes out a little further at the shoulders and isn't quite as fitted at the waist as suit's. I think even the cuffs are wider? Also now noticing that suit's sleeves look like they're too short for him. (edit: ray's flower and cravat also puff him up a little. suit's tie doesn't exactly do the same job)

i dunno, just something I noticed. suit's outfit is so stripped down and fitted, it makes it really obvious just how small Saeran is.

[kusukixcrystal]

MM Classpecting: Saeran Part 2

Zen Classpect

Yoosung Classpect

Jaehee Classpect

Jumin Classpect

707 Classpect

V Classpect

Saeran Classpect Part 1

This is part 2 of my Saeran classpecting post. In the first part is the Page of Heart interpretation, which I don't believe is his actual classpect. Now, I will cover what I think suits his character considering the events of the main story (Deep Story, 707 route and Secret Endings)

Classpect Interpretation 2:

Classpect - Muse of Rage (+): One who commands Rage, or commands through Rage, for others.

How this applies Saeran: Holy. Shit. Where do I even start? The world is out for Saeran: his father is trying to kill him and his mother abused him. Rika then indoctrinated him into a fucking cult. Saeran blames his own weak constitution for why his brother left him. In Mint Eye he accepts that the world is a cruel place, and dwells in self-deprecation, hatred and negativity.

In Another Story we see what would happen if Saeran breaks out of this cycle of self-deprecation, gaining strength in order to protect MC and his brother. In order to mature, in both Another Story and the Secret Endings Saeran must learn to trust Saeyoung and the RFA in order to escape Mint Eye and lead a better life. At his worst as Unknown he is pessimistic, isolates himself and suppresses any emotions that would deem him ‘weak’. Saeran in his After Story works with Jumin and Jaehee to stop his father, using his hacker skills. He has the ability to exert force on his environment when provided backing from people he cares about. We see the world tug him in every which way; V trying to show Saeran positive sides to the world with gardening and photography. Rika with Mint Eye. Another Story makes this more explicit, with the divide between Ray and Saeran. At that point he was still not Unknown yet, still malleable with Rika and V trying to shape him.

Unknown Commands over many people in Mint Eye and is in a high position. He orchestrates getting MC into the RFA and yadda yadda. 

We have to talk about why I think he is a Muse in the context of the main story. In Homestuck, Muse/Lord are considered to be Master Classes. They are classes given to only 2 characters in the entire comic: Calliope and Caliborn respectively. We see that with these classes these two play the role of influencing the other characters to act. They are given to people who influence the events of the entire story to a great degree. As one of Mystic Messenger's main antagonists, Saeran's role can not be understated. His actions literally lead to all the stories/routes happening. He is the one to lead MC to Rika's apartment. He is the one to hack the RFA chatroom and put everyone on high alert. He is the one to break into Rika's apartment and threatens to blow it up with the bomb. He is a Conductor, Commanding the RFA to act through using his Aspect... Speaking of his Aspect, let's discuss that.

This is what the Extended Hiveswap Zodiac has to say about the Rage Aspect:

“Those bound to the aspect of Rage are bringers of chaos. They possess great contempt for lies or false ideas, including the stability that false ideas can impart. To them, the true is far more important than the good; they would tear down a system just to destabilize it if, by their reckoning, it is built on faulty premises. Often the Rage-bound prefer anarchy to any of the alternate forms of civilization, which they believe to be riddled with lies and foolishness and obedient masses. They are bringers of confusion and doubt, and they can be frustratingly difficult to convince otherwise when they have attached themselves to an idea. If they sound dangerous, they are. The Rage-bound tend to be most volatile and unpredictable of the aspects. At their best they are original, revolutionary, and fearless. At their worst they are cruel, uncompromising, and vicious.”

How this applies to Saeran:

As previously stated, as a Muse of Rage Saeran Commands with Rage, utilizing his Aspect, his Rage, against the RFA to sew chaos and disorder within the narrative. Destroying the RFA's once peaceful lives.

He does this because he believes in Mint Eye's ideology, that outside institutions are feeding everyone lies and that they are a paradise in this world. He believed Rika, thinking that Saeyoung lied about saving him. These 'lies' and 'false ideas' from both his brother and society makes Saeran very angry, using it to destabilize the RFA. This brings doubt to the members of the RFA, where once everyone (excluding Yoosung) believed in V wholeheartedly, began to doubt him when they learn that there is a bomb in Rika's apartment and his constant absence.

When a Muse Commands with their Aspect, they are shaped by it too. His Aspect of Rage shapes him into Unknown, blinded by betrayal and Rage against Saeyoung, turning him into a violent bundle of anger and sorrow. He embodies the forces of his Aspect through violence and utilizing the bomb in Rika’s apartment and the gun he uses to shoot V. He also presumably tortures Yoosung with stuff as well (Yoosung Bad Ending 3). Unknown’s presence haunts the RFA in the game, the hacker threat a prominent story thread hanging over them. This influences the RFA to be careful and take precautions. The martyrdom part applies more to After Story Saeran, who sacrifices himself by directly confronting his father for his brother.

In Saeyoung's route, when he confronts Saeran in Rika's apartment and even at Mint Eye, he has difficulty getting his brother to believe that he thought he was living a good life. Saeran's belief can not be swayed easily, a prominent trait seen in the Rage-bound.

Saeran is unpredictable and volatile, seen in all Casual and Deep Stories in this game. He can strike a hacker attack at any time. In bad endings he appears almost randomly, catching the characters off guard.

In the beginning of his route, he uses his Rage to hurt and Command the MC, having control over her. It is only after the route progresses and MC gets through to him, somehow managing to persuade him away from his false ideals, that Saeran redirects his Rage in a different direction: towards Rika and his father.

Just to clarify, the reason I bring up Another Story so much in this analysis when I said I’d only focus on the main story in previous posts is because we just never had the opportunity to see much of Saeran in the og game. These traits of his character do apply to who he is as a person, its just that we only get to see it in Another Story more. Its the same thing as looking at other character routes to build a characterization of the other RFA members. His main role in the narrative still takes precedent and it all still fits well with Unknown/Saeran.

Now that we discussed his Class and Aspect separately, let's summarize. A Muse of Rage would be one who Commands Rage for Others. A Muse could be subjected to anger and violence themselves (his abuse and neglect), he later goes on to have Command over Rage and violence himself as Unknown. He inspires Rage within others (The RFA), and Commands them through Rage and have them pit against each other. In Saeyoung’s route Yoosung voices his grievances about V after the bomb was revealved. Saeyoung begins to doubt too, and is frustrated that V is hiding information from him, losing all trust and incensed after seeing Saeran. Even Jumin begins to confront V about his absence and behavior. By doing all of this, the narrative progresses forward, Saeyoung and MC finally deciding to go to Mint Eye, where all truths are revealed.

[mysteriousclues]

I don’t have a quote to go with this image, Saeran Choi. That’s all. Live Laugh Love Saeran

[queensnitchy]

Saeran: go to sketchy apartment to return phone of person I don't know

Mc: yeah sure random person I don't know, like you could just return it when your not busy but sure, why not could get murdered but whatever