#vegan arguments

[healingwgabs]

Confusing/misunderstanding/misrepresenting nociception and pain to justify animal exploitation or avoid moral discomfort

We have overwhelming scientific evidence that factory farm animals, such as pigs, chickens, and cows, experience pain. Its been well established and known that these animals feel pain and not just nociception. Mammals and birds have complex nervous systems and brains capable of processing pain. They have the same brain structures we do for pain, like the thalamus and limbic system. They show clear behavioural signs of suffering, like vocalizing, avoiding painful situations, and even developing trauma responses.

Leading authorities and a bunch of research agrees and affirm that animals like cows, pigs, and chickens experience real pain just like humans and dogs, cats

while its true that pain isnt exactly the same for all species, like naked mole rats being weird outliers, that doesnt mean animals dont feel pain. Saying "we cant ask them so we dont know" is like saying saying babies dont feel pain either and we know thats not true

[there-is-a-way-forward]

The thing is, even if we didn't have evidence to suggest animals feel pain/experience emotions etc (which to my knowledge we do), we sure as hell don't have evidence to prove they don't. In any case where using animals is not necessary (which is a lot of cases), assuming an animal doesn't feel pain without proof, just because it's convenient to us, is irresponsible (and dismissing any pain we do believe they feel is simply abhorrent). If there's a chance someone/something feels pain, that needs to be considered as important, and definitely more important than a human's desire to eat meat/cheese/etc (and I am specifically referring to desire; I understand cases where a person may need specific animal products for one reason or another are more complicated (but still not free of moral issue! just complicated))

[fangirlingatstuff]

So I wanted to do a post expressing my feelings towards fur farms. Hot take time

I like animal products. Im far from vegan, and I personally believe that leather products are especially sustainable.

I feel the same towards fur. HOWEVER, I do not support using predator species for fur.

High quality fur animals include minks, foxes, linxes, and sables. All of these animals have unique and relatively soft coats, making them very luxurious to own.

I have nothing against wearing fur, I think it is kind of cool, and I do own a couple rabbit and coyote pelts. BUT, the coyote pelts are hunted, substainably, not farmed such as minks or foxes.

I believe if you want to a pelt from a predator species, you should do the work for yourself. Not even buying already hunted pelts, hunt it YOURSELF (or from small businesses that you can vet for their practices.)

Minks and sables are considered semi-domesticated, having been selectively bred for at least a century, but not being kept long enough to be considered fully domesticated. And I find it really sad that we exploit them for material means. Minks have been shown to be very good ratters, and even an animal trainer by the name of Joseph Carter, aka the Mink Man, has been training minks (and even a monitor named Raptor) to rat alongside his ratting dogs. And their intelligence is astounding! He gets his minks from fur farms, where they are considered vicious, and uses similar techniques used for dogs to train them for sport!

I believe this is how we should be using predator species. For work and companionship rather than fur. With small prey animals, such as rabbits, it is far easier to sustainably harvest fur because they have large litter sizes (and extremely soft fur.) Sheep are also well known, and being herd animals, they also have plenty of young to sustainbly shear and skin and make clothing. And they have many breeds that can mimic soft fur.

Foxes are iffy for me still, but fur farms are disgusting and animal abuse, with small cages, lack of stimulation, and sometimes even packing the animals together.

Lynxes should not be reared period. At all.

If you want a large supply of fur, go after invasive species. I have taken to tanning nutria hides, as they are very much like beaver belts and you can get them pretty soft

[punkassvegan]

[fakinbaconvegancomics]

A great smack down of the canines argument by Debbie Schultz-Peterson

[thegardenofmyheart]

I don't understand why people are always so judgmental towards vegans. We're just trying to save our planet, if you don't want to help then get out of the way and let us do our own thing. We certainly won't beg you to join us if you don't want to.

[thegardenofmyheart]

I'm not against veganism but *says something against veganims*

[working-class-vegan]

I am forever exhausted by non-vegans responding to any mention of veganism as “racist/classist/ablist/etc.” and just kneejerk dismissing all of the vegans who fall into those categories. As a white, able bodied person, I don’t feel comfortable commenting on those specific accusations, though I do try my best to be mindful of such things in my own activism. I am also aware that there are vegans who are all those things and carelessly perpetuate these types of oppression with their language and actions, just like there are many non-vegans who also do so.   But as a jobless nearly homeless person with often debilitating mental health issues, I’m starting to get pretty pissed about non-vegans misrepresenting me and people like me for their completely thoughtless, disposable response to being confronted with how their choices affect others.