#will the builder

[nightnut]

Max, honey, what are we doing here?

I rushed with my conclusions when I said that you were laying still while Will was building something

and this is happening in the same episode, okay…

So, guys, can you share with the class: what did you build?

[erikiara80]

He made the best Eggos

In the presentation, El says that Hopper made the best Eggos. In the UD, he's the one who touched the eggshell near Castle Byers

[waterghoulcalamity]

this is how i imagine people who say will is trying to break mike and el apart log into their special netflix acc that shows them a different show where will tries to force kiss mike twice spits on el calls her stupid and also joins vecna for an exclusive partnership

[nightnut]

Did Will build anything in season 5?

I can’t get Will’s erratic eye movements out of my head, so I’m inviting you to investigate this case a little bit. Let’s start with these two sequences placed next to each other:

There’s something about the fact that “building” tunnels for Vecna is shown through the same movements as we’ve just seen in the transition from the reality — to the UD library where this s2 flashback is put.

And Will’s eyes stop moving right in the end of the transition as he gains back his consciousness there. So from this I can assume that it’s either unintentional and easily means just a simple fact that, whenever his eyes move, Will’s under impact of Vecna, or that he’s building something again?

But was he building anything before he opened his eyes in the UD? Were his eyes shot this whole time since the night when he passed out — before Vecna came at that exact time (syncing with the reality/the UD events when we see the shots👆?)

Also Max doesn’t move her eyes like that although she’s in Henry’s mind too. And I bet if she did, it wouldn’t be unnoticed (and no one would assume that she’s just in coma). Moreover, they suspected that she would be blind once she wakes up (not that had she been blind, she couldn’t move her eyes but still, this doesn’t match for me, however, I might be ofc wrong.) Or is it different for Max bc she’s hiding from Henry (and he doesn’t know where she is, unlike he does with Will)? It doesn’t seem to me like it though, as he never intended to use her like Will or the other kids. Ah, the kids, we can analyse Holly, right?

Her eyes also don’t do shit. (The kids’ eyes either, when we see them briefly inside MF). She was possessed like Will was in s2 — and the smoke was inside both.

(I don’t remember Will being “smoked” though right after his abduction in s1 — just in s2 👆, so is it correct to say that he was possessed just in s2? or did it happen earlier? (As at the end of s1 he had slugs, does it count as possession after those tentacles? does it make Holly possessed the same way Will was if she also had smoke coming out of her?) or is Will still possessed? as, despite the fact that in s5 Will wasn’t “smoked”, somehow their experiences are alike. So he might’ve been possessed till the last episodes? But again, hadn’t Joyce, Hop and Mike beaten his smoke possession in s2? Looked like it. If birthdaygate ever happens, probably this only can explain this mess.)

So what do Will, Holly (the kids) and Max have in common? Are their experiences the same?

Not much? If they can drag Will out just due to El’s help. (If they did drag him out there…) Will doesn’t need music here and “I just need you”, so he is not in Camazotz, right? Or is he?

And what is Camazotz once again? Henry’s mind full of his memories, inserted minds of his victims (and their memories) and his Red Room.

Speaking of what they share, probably we should look into the ways all of them were abducted:

Holly

Abducted physically through the UD — probably dragged up into the Abyss (the place is also physical), — her body is there while her mind is put into Henry’s mind. “Smoked”.

Max

Abducted mentally, physically is in Hawkins, — mentally being put into the Red Room first, but then got lost in Henry’s memories (as memories and RR are on the same level of consciousness), so anyway she’s roaming around Henry’s mind. Not “smoked”.

Will

S1 — abducted physically through the UD, caught by Vecna in the UD’s library. (Mentally was in his mind? But never saw anything calming like Holly, only scary things). Had slugs after the abuse and visions. Possessed in S2, which connected him to the hivemind (he was supposed to see demo’s attacks since then, like Bob’s death, but welp).

S5 — through his connection to the hive, he can be in the mind of Vecna (and his victims) and his pets seeing their victims. So bc of this connection, he stays physically in Hawkins, mentally being in the hivemind. But hivemind includes Henry’s mind.

(So we can’t be entirely sure about Will’s possession state, we also can’t be sure where was his mind in the UD in s1, and only physically he was in two different dimensions in s1 and s5.)

But is it another level of connection (not like Max and Holly being IN Vecna’s mind) making Will not technically the victim atm but one of the hive now? But how is it different from Holly and the kids, when they are literally “another 12” which will help Vecna to do the thing he started with Will? Which also means that Holly (and the gang) are supposed to have slugs, now-memories and all that shit that Will experienced in s2 (however, still feeling Vecna with his neck through the years) they should have it all in case Vecna (or at least MF) is alive. (Which looks like a spin-off material for those who have balls to go back to the level of s2 scariness and actually show all that.)

(Also it is probably a good time to remember that Will was released from his possession (the smoke) through the toughest experience of exorcism with heat. But all the kids did it at the click of a finger.)

Back to Will’s location:

His body in S5 is still in the room (not the physical UD’s library like in s1 or s5 flashback), and El connects firstly with his (?) mind* but doesn’t see him, then asks to show where he is, then starts seeing the veins, him unconscious in the library-memory. (*we’ll come back here later). From what we see, Vecna left Will there when he found Max. But left where? Caught him in the hivemind, put in one of Will’s worst memories — technically having Will separated from the “common hive area” and having dealt with him in just Will’s mind territory? (Or is still Vecna’s territory?)

Why does Vecna start to harass him in the library? The difference I see is that in s1 he uses a tentacle (which happens thought apparently not in the Abyss), and here 👇, looking for Max, he holds his hand above Will’s head causing him to bleed.

But was Vecna just looking for Max? Will directly addresses later that Vecna showed him “things” but all we see here is only his search for Max (which repeats as the “last” memory before Will gains his consciousness with El) while Will starts bleeding probably bc of the attempts to prevent this mind invasion. (This is very SA-coded too, including the pic in the right upper corner.)

It is also still interesting why Will was bleeding the way we saw, was the cause supernatural like nose blood, or was it just because he tried to prevent Vecna from seeing his mind?

But why was Will in the library again? If it is a memory shown in 5x01, it’s his and Vecna’s first time face-to-face. It is still can be Camazotz — but if it is so, Vecna’s choice to leave him there is weird. Don’t the most traumatic memories, as we know, also lead to the exit of Camazotz?

Unless Vecna didn’t really leave him here and was around, showing El what she needed to see? Because otherwise how El finds unconscious Will on the first level on the bed, then enters the 2nd level with the vines where he’s still unconscious! And she still needs to reach him, to release him from the veins before his consciousness comes back from somewhere (from where?). Did Will wake up? Did El come back from mind-travelling after Will? Or was it a trap in Camazotz?

Now back to the eyes, here’s a fact: Will’s eyes were still/again moving when El saw him at The Squack (we got another close-up to Will’s eyes there), but in Hopper’s cabin when he’s next to Joyce and Hop laying on the bed, his eyes do not move (mb though it’s just bc he’s not in the focus like with that close up). His eyes also didn’t move in the library in both scenes where they’re closed.

We saw all three lost party members unconscious, the party called all their conditions “trance”, but we can tell clearly, that Max and Holly were just “chilling” while Will’s eyes were moving fast as hell. Why? With this exact movement he was building tunnels before. Was he building now too? (Was he building new traps in Camazotz? Could it be needed? Because it’s Vecna’s mind, Vecna can manage it himself, right? But Max and Holly happened to escape from his observation. Which is even understandable, bc we always forget things, it’s not that easy to reach every memory, especially when there are someone else’s memories being inserted too.)

Will obviously is still different. But how different? I’m afraid the show doesn’t give us an explicit answer other than “weak” which tho doesn’t make Will different from these other 12 kids, however we know that Will was Vecna’s first victim. Why?

I guess, the only “answer” we really get here is that Will helped “infecting” the world with the UD. (I’m still gonna bang my head against the wall and demand to know why the tunnels as tunnels were needed at all, but okaaaay, up to interpretation). So what happens next: the UD particles start coming out on the surface of Hawkins (tunnels first, pumpkins were rotting and all), then Vecna multiplied it with his 4 victims in s4, splitting Hawkins, which resulted in having particles everywhere, which was (at least) 2 times addressed, noting that something must be wrong:

Interesting that they did it in the beginning of the season and closer to the “end” (the 2nd set is from 5x07), it’s like they wanted us to notice that it was not safe to breathe these particles in, but didn’t said why. Could the perfect epilogue be an answer to this “why”?

Coming back to the comparison between Will and Max with Holly, one thing that’s been so far left out of the discussion is Will’s powers.

But whether it’s his powers or just Vecna’s after all is still not fully shown. But if it’s Vecna’s, it’ll come to the kids too (if/while Vecna is alive) — which is also still not a desirable outcome for Vecna bc who needs a bunch of kids being able to break his bones with their minds (and like Will said: what can be possible with 12 like him lmao).

Which logically brings us back to the assumption that Will’s powers are indeed innate (also bc there should’ve been another reason why Mike stressed it several times aside from him just being a proud boyfriend lol), it might also explain the connection to Will’s eyes movements, to why he was building tunnels in s2, why Vecna chose him in the first place (and whether it is connected with him being a painter! I think it might play a role too, or at least it’d be cool if it did.) And if it so, it can mean that Will probably for real was building something exactly in this episode! Maybe the ways to mislead the party through a labyrinth of Camazotz, starting with grabbing El in his mind.

This can, by the way, explain even that shot with him laying next to Joyce and Hop speaking to each other, with no eye movements: bc we saw him before twice in The Squack when this was happening, and after they arrived to Hop’s there was nothing. (And! when Will fell right after Henry pushed him out, there was also nothing btw.) So, had Will finished building for Vecna something else by that time?

To sum up: Will’s either in Camazotz and dragging others in too (bc for getting out he needs “I just needed you” type of connection to reality), or he’s not and then why is it so hard for El to find him, why does Robin think that he’s in Vecna’s mind too and why does she want to ask Max and Holly after they come back where’s Will. Which brings us back to the idea that he’s still in there (even if she’s wrong, he has no other options with El lost in his mind). But where exactly and how deep?

I’ll end this analysis with Lucas who, on the one hand, is clearly put in this scene just to utter questions for all of us, but, on the other hand, who most likely foreshadows what’s happening next.

Is Vecna messing with us again?

(And of course this all can mean nothing too bc that’s how plot holes work. But if these two (!) close-ups were put there for a reason, if the parallel with s2 dreams-and-tunnels was put there for a reason, this must be it. Will’s powers must be an answer to many whys, and the described above is the only explanation I found that collects it all somehow together. Still not fully though, but “fully” can be done only by its creators who put it all together. And they either have the answers, or…)

After all, it honestly feels like they have something to show us one-last-time because… it’s just too much. There should be an explanation other than “we cut off 1/3 of our season with garden shears and decided it’ll do”. Hopefully it’s not the case.

P.S. Also it will forever be hilarious how it was hard for Henry to find Max because who would ever guess that she was at the hospital for 1,5 years after being attacked?