I can see already that as soon as non-cg bylers will hear that vhs crops Will out from s2, the shit will hit the fan š¤£ little will they know that itās on purpose but not bc the duffs hate will
chat, watching vhs version, can I ask you to pay attention to the right and left edges of the shots?
@acecreamsandwich posted these:
and it made me think of this:
we donāt have s2 yet, but as soon as we do, pls check how they crop such shots! āsuchā as in: having Will in the border
Jesus, Iām so sure thereās no way to crop it with no consequences and thatās gonna be the hype of s2
my pulse is racing againā¦ like I was wondering exactly about this kind of framing with Will today, not even thinking about vhs ratioā¦ chat, you see that this might be huge, right? š«
they can crop out Dustin ofc, but smth tells me they will not
chat, why is Joyce afraid of the phone call? I keep rewatching it and I donāt get it. it looks like sheās traumatised by the phone fuckery since Will went missing, but if it was so, they could not restore the phone? If itās this problematic. Or why would she ignore it? it looks and feels ominous, and I donāt see connections to anything happening around in the episode, maybe I still forgot somethingā¦ I need a fresh pair of eyesā¦
Lonnie is homophobic enough to think that Willās wish to see Mike is stupid. Will loves Mike enough to be stupid and break all the rules just to see him.
if you donāt get what Lonnie and Will have to do with this scene, read: [ corruptiongate: bad parent jim hopper ]
Thatās the only way I can perceive Elās jealousy plotline along with Mikeās suddenly being into her in s2 after knowing her for a couple of days when she barely had any social skills. This IS what could explain it, stopping the far-fetchedness of it all.
These mutual m11 feelings out of the blue have always bothered me (way before byler). I didnāt see anything that would back that up, aside from Mikeās having developed so called feelings based on the trauma of losing El in front of his eyes.
Although if we see this plotline as a corrupted memory of Mike having lost Will it suddenly works easily: of course, Mike would believe that Will is alive, of course, he would try to reach him daily, of course, Will would miss him, and would be jealous already around s2. Of course, there would be mutual feelings, that teenage love! This works easily and their behaviour becomes logical right away, bc Mike and Will share history, which m11, with this āconsequentialā teenage love seeming to be absurd after so short an acquaintance, having absolutely no actual solid ground for it, never did.
did Will drop Max? well, if itās a corrupted memory, who knows atp! :D maybe Max is the reason he thinks Mike is straight š
shit I just wanted to get free from those two theories I was writing these days, I posted both and was ready to move on but then I rewatched Hopperās and Elās fight like I recommended you in the end of corruptiongate 3, AND I FUCKING NOTICED ONE MORE tiny little THING THAT UNWRAPPED HELL OF A LAYER FOR A NEW BIG ASS POST THAT WONāT LET ME SLEEP AT NIGHT FFS and also answered one question about Will that bugged me since my very first ST watch in 2023ā¦. Jesus fucking Christ!!!!
I havenāt even watched any more episodes, itās only 2x04 - and partly 2x03 have been cooking for me š every episode brings another ton of cues, itās hard enough to manage covering it all (= impossible), but this shit I realised again will not fucking release me. I wanted to get back to my postponed old theories, but fuck me! corruptiongate part 4 is in my schedule again š
Corruptiongate p.3: Bad parent Jim Hopper, byler field scenes and Will taken to the Lab (p.1, p.2, + bonus-post)
Itās a theory based on cues hinting that m11 is byler in s3, the idea of which is the show being built upon corrupted memories. There are more significant posts revealing what exactly was altered (links will be below), but the ones based on Elās character, explaining cues around her, are its base.
Have you ever felt that Hopper yelling at El the way hatred for him feels with the whole body is in the heaviest way ooc after everything heās done by this time? Thatās because itās not Hopper.
If you know corruptiongate, then you probably know how suspicious Elās room in s3 m11 scenes is. T85 didnāt make it āeasierā, turning orange objects (as if orange being Vecnaās colour wasnāt enough) into pink and placing the bird poster in two rooms at once (in part 1 I theorised what it can mean, but Iād genuinely recommend to keep up with all three main posts).
What stood out for me this time is that s2 room looks nothing like s3 room (as if s3 room is not real at all): the walls are not green, the curtains are not yellow, and even Elās bedside table is different.
And, as much as t85 timeline is questionable (pretending to be post s2, while it heavily feels like post s5), I mind you: if anything in T85 even is real, it wouldnāt make sense for s2 to end at Snowball in the end of December with no plans for Hop and El to renovate her room, and in two weeks to have a fully new look for it (as T85 takes place in the middle of January). And even if we dismiss t85 as itās still not a continuation of s2, but of s5, take into consideration just the og show and imagine that even though they had half a year till July to do that, it still doesnāt seem reasonable, as El lived with Hop for almost one year, they prepared the place for it, but they never coloured the walls and didnāt have a reason to do it urgently for s3.
Now I need to take you back to the opening scene of the episode: it has a parallel that I caught later in the notorious scene of the fight between El and Hopper. Letās check how Will is doing (not great).
ā¦ your little what trip? your little field what? š
1ļøā£ In the show playing a lot with a topic of drug trips, is what Will experienced at the field anything but a trip šØ? (yes, thatās trippygate over here)
2ļøā£ Who are we even looking at this scene? Who is Hopper speaking to? Is it Will?
Letās move for a second to the way Hopper grounds El: he forbids her to watch TV. The show playing (and the shot implies that she likes it) is Cheersā¦ who else, as we know, loves this show?
Doesnāt it seem reasonable that out of all kids Will would be the one loving Cheers, bc he used to watch it with his mother?
I started the post claiming that this is not Hopper. You know, as many times as I watched this scene, I always tried to excuse Hopper as his arc is surely constructed to make us want to trust him, and bc of that this scene feels like a whiplash.
I get that people can lose their temper, even (or especially lol) when it comes to their kids, and we know that heās so nervous for El etcā¦ It seems like we have every reason to understand him even here, but his anger looks too beastly, not normal at all, so, the way he behaves throws us off.
I caught the feeling of something being wrong about Hopper behaving like this again this time with a thought yelling in my head āthis canāt be himā, so I started rewatching trying to understand how it is even possible that itās not himā¦ Thatās when I found the field line. Thatās when I suddenly understood that the kid kept in the cabin is Will, and the bad parent is not Jim Hopper, but Lonnie Byers, known for suspicions in kidnapping his own son since the very beginning of the show.
There is a theory that Lonnie was the one to take his kid to the Lab for money, as we know that heās very capable of it as he infamously known for not giving a damn about his family at all. And heās also of course disgustingly homophobic.
We know Willās powers are āinnateā, so he was a person of interest for the Lab: it also explains all the supernatural stuff El does in the scene.
Now, remember the weird drawing of Paladin that El had in her s3 room that made no sense (weird bc she doesnāt care and knows nothing about D&D, has no idea who Paladin is, doesnāt draw as good as Will, thereās no reason for her to have this depiction of Mike at all)? If we consider those s3 scenes as Willās corrupted memories, it suits perfectly well: he lives with Lonnie (not all Elās scenes are his, but at least a specific one is) and has a drawing of Mike as Paladin on his wall. Lonnie hides Will, doesnāt let him leave, the only thing that can support Will is a drawing of Mike.
Looks like Will escaped from the Lab/was taken back by Lonnie, but Lonnie doesnāt want to be caught, and his supernatural kid is his pain in the ass. He still has contacts of the Lab though, and he still threatens Will to take him back:
Meanwhile, he manipulates or even truly believes that heās doing something good for them both, Will included: letās say heās the shittiest parent, but probably still thinks that Brenner is evil, worse than him, so he explains himself, letās Will know that he keeps him safe, but alsoā¦
confirms that he is in danger too. Willās being found by anyone is not in his interests.
Maybe Lonnie doesnāt hate Will to the point where he wouldnāt feed him, for example (and thatās where good-parenting lines saving Hopperās character in this scene build not pure evil-but still disgusting bad father Lonnie Byers), maybe he found out something he didnāt like about the Lab/stopped getting money from there, and decided to take Will back. But he surely despises his own son enough to do egregiously awful things to him (still believing that teaching and feeding him in that environment is enough to demand gratefulness and obedience).
I hope the idea of Will being into Cheers makes even more sense now as itās literally the show he used to watch with his mother, when everything was alright, and which now helps him to feel safe and to remember the way life was going before.
Now that we look at Hop and El seeing Lonnie and Will, this line also reads (and hits) differently:
Will, not being able to see Mike for over a year (almost a year in the cabin and god knows how long while he was in the Lab), knowing that Mike still believes heās alive (canonical events of Willās going missing and Elās presumably being dead interestingly match here, and absolutely add up to each other, being just one storyline about Mike never giving up on Will), surely misses him, draws him and quotes him, which pisses Lonnie off.
Will desperately wants to see Mike, and Lonnie knows that. We also know how Lonnie calls him and can assume that he suspects that Mike is the one ānot just a friendā to Will making him āqueerā. And now even this question, that already had two layers, reveals the third:
Whereād you go on your little trip?
From Mike. To Mike.
Coming back to the first post of corruptiongate: Does it mean s3 m11/byler-kiss is a part of Willās life at Lonnieās? I donāt think so. (But Ig itās time to finish my old theory of what is really going on with s3 through s5 lens.) Surely, not every scene of El and Hopper could be read as Will and Lonnie, so, most likely it has other explanations; however, El substituting Will barely leaves her as her own character with her own plotline. She might represent another character (Sara? still Jane but not Eleven?) in the right timeline/reality, but with every new detail El, as we know her, seems to be more of a concept and not her own character.
Now I suggest you watching the full scene with new eyes, and please pay attention to the OST (it starts being heard around the middle of the scene), it sounds eerie, but in a sci-fi way, like it implies that something scientific happens in this scene: like, a corrupted memory being loaded into the brain of a receiver, laying in the Nina machine, and only the sound directly gives it away.
Iāll finish this post with a picture of Hopper with matrixgate cue, i.e. blue and red [pills].
After all, if El is not fully real, it can mean that the whole storyline was corrupted since the very beginning, so we didnāt have just Snowball as the point of no return, but some memory fuckery was happening all the way through.
[ main theory posts ] [ more corruptiongate key posts ]
_____________________________________________// tagging those who were interested in the crazy shit I found yesterday and who liked my comment where I mentioned proofs for s1-2 corruption: @sorafyr3 @gritstartar @itswhatyougive @warmglowhc @rgwriter@sidoniemoon @cypher-heart-no-key @eclecticmentalitytheorist @solariansea @wrathfulstarlightcavern @bbghostbones
youāve probably forgotten, but Iāve been cooking the 2nd theory since yesterdayā¦ where one of the evidence is Cheers, and look, Iām watching Cheers while Iām fighting my internet for this theory lol So, well, anyways, Iām thrilled to share that with you, itās almost done š§āš³
(I started at night, but now itās 7pm here, and Iāve been editing it the whole day since morning)
the crazy shit I posted yesterday is here btw, and Iāll finally share the 2nd one soon! itās a new part of corruptiongate which is sooo exciting!!
Dr Owens, Barb/Nancy and two tapes-memories in one: Jonathan and Nancy were not together in the Lab
(the Shutter Island, The Truman Show and Fight Club)
Do you remember a theory that Hawkins got flayed in the end of season 2? I believe we have corrupted memories earlier (most likely from the very beginning of the show, but thatās story for another time). Letās check this one out.
The first thing that stood out to me was this shot:
Dr Owens opens the door, and the scientist starts āworkingā immediately. He was not working, when the door opened, he started at the same moment. This jumped out at me as if it was staged, and no one was indeed working there until Nancy and Jonathan entered the room. It gave The Truman Show immediately, and I rewatched the whole sequenceā¦ a dozen times.
The sequence starts with this shot:
Here we see just Jonathan, and it would be fine, if only I didnāt feel weird by the way the next shot separates Jonathan from Nancy: we see just him in the mirror, which is okay for thing angle, but something still feels offā¦ For example, the fact that Jonathan in the mirror is not Jonathan in the room. The mirror is fake!
You can see this clearly if you compare the way the chair is seen and Jonathanās posture.
Then, this shot is followed by (what would you think) the surveillance camera shot šāāļø where everything goes even wilder right away:
as much as I could dismiss Jonathanās hands (the right one is on the left one, while in the shot before the left one was above) or Nancyās bag (and its shoulder strap) changing position, we still have Jonathanās posture on the left where he sits with his back against his backrest, while in the mirror itās different again, but also!!!!
NANCY IS TRANSPARENT!
It looks like her image was put above Jonathanās. Thereās literally no explanation for this table to be seen at the same time we see Nancy. And besides, her image clearly differs from the whole shot. Meanwhile, the shot with Jonathan looks like he is alone there silently looking right into the camera.
My first theory was that Nancy is non-existent in this sequence whatsoever and this is only Jonās memory, but some dialogues after made me reconsider this.
Anyways, then Owens suggest a walk, and Jonathan again doesnāt match his reflection: staying right in front of the chair on this side, he stands very far in the mirror, and also close to the end of the table (although he moves synchronically).
They start walking, and here I caught The Truman Show vibes, when several people were turning around (as if they were curious actors), and The Shutter Island vibes bc, even though Owens addresses them both a couple of times, it still can be seen as if he was talking to only one of them for whom this spectacle is played. (+ Fight Club)
(fyi, George Sargon died on March 22nd, 1956)
Here I had a theory that Jonathan lost his mind after Willās death, and Owens plays along to his fantasy that he investigates something with Nancy Wheeler, and everyone knows whatās happening and thatās why they turn around.
But is the corridor walk Jonathanās memory?
The wording āyour brother and Ms. Hollandāā¦ Whose brother? Did anything happened to Mike? Why does it sound like he speaks to just one person? And this person is Nancyā¦ Imagine, that sheās alone: he speaks of Mike, or Barbara, then:
āYou guys been together long?ā āWe (we)re not together.ā āWanna see what really killed your friend?ā
It could be about Jonathan and Will, but then Barb stands out and I barely see Jonathan and Barb as a possibilityā¦ but who knows atp. My bet is Bancy though, with the hunch that here we witness two separate tapes and memories combined. Firstly, Jonathanās, then Nancyās. Corrupted memories by Brennerās tapes?
Enjoy!
Iāll finish the post with this:
Consider the possibility that Jonathan in the mirror is Jonathan on the tape, the hands actually matchā¦ the fact that tape!Jonās and real!Johnās hands do not match can be just a production error (moreover, on the tape we can see a mirror too in the ācorrectā place, not mirrored, so I might be wrong), but the idea of the mirrored reality seems curious.
[ corruptiongate main posts, other corruptiongate key posts ]
___________________________________________ tagging honey buns who were waiting for the post: @warmglowhc @wrathfulstarlightcavern @sorafyr3 @gritstartar @worldofsouthernwind @itswhatyougive ; @bbghostbones I meant the very last panel, but also I recommend you to check out George Sargon, I didnāt find anything for my theories, briefly reading his biography, but it might be useful for you!
Iāll attach links to both of my announcements after I manage to post everything so that you knew then what I meant and what I was losing my mind about š„²
I found something crazy in og s2, but my internet works like shit and itāll be fixed tomorrow at best. I can barely handle my overexcitement and desperate wish to share that with you all š„²
the funny thing about Cheers for me is that Iāve known Ted Danson from The Good Place specifically, and I was not ready to catch a crush on his eighties versionā¦ yet here I am
When Mike and Will got engaged, Lucas and Dustin got into this huge argument of who would be mikes best man. Wills would obviously be Jonathan, that meant one of them was gonna be mikes. So they started this whole thing where they would both keep dropping hints as to who Mike should make the best man.
So when mike announced that max is his best woman they both fucking crashed out.
Mike had no idea what was going on. Max was thriving off the chaos.
