#william duer

[theworstfoundingfathers]

Who is the worst?

Round 1: William Duer vs William Whipple

Who is worse?

William Duer

William Whipple

Voting ended onFeb 28, 2023

William Duer (March 18, 1743 – May 7, 1799) was a British-born American jurist, developer, and financial speculator from New York City. A Federalist, Duer wrote in support of ratifying the United States Constitution as "Philo-Publius". He had earlier served in the Continental Congress and the convention that framed the New York Constitution. In 1778, he signed the United States Articles of Confederation and is one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.

Duer became a prominent speculator after the war; he was also elected to the New York General Assembly in 1786. When Alexander Hamilton, Schuyler's son-in-law, became first Secretary of the Treasury in 1789, Duer became the first Assistant Secretary. He continued to speculate in American bonds, including the failed Scioto Company scheme to buy up the American debt to France at a discount.

Duer went bankrupt as a result of the Panic of 1792, and was held in debtors' prison for the rest of his life. His failure has been cited as a cause of the panic, reportedly the first in New York caused by speculation. The loss was estimated at 3 million dollars and impoverished many in all classes.

William Whipple Jr. (January 25, 1731 NS [January 14, 1730 OS] – November 28, 1785) was an American Founding Father and signatory of the United States Declaration of Independence. He represented New Hampshire as a member of the Continental Congress from 1776 through 1779. He worked as both a ship's captain and a merchant, and he studied in college to become a judge. He died of heart complications in 1785, aged 55.

Whipple earned his fortune participating in the Triangle trade of the West Indies and Africa, with cargo such as wood, rum, and enslaved humans. He established himself as a merchant in Portsmouth in 1759, in partnership with his brother Joseph.

[pub-lius]

trying not to laugh at the picture of william duer on wikipedia

[46ten]

Hamilton family friends in the West Indies

According to the Fraser Annex webpage, Alexander and Damaris Fraser were divorced in 1759. This means that they were still married when “Alexander Fraser and Elizabeth Thornton his housewife” gave birth to a son in 1758 and had him baptized in October of that year.

Does this story sound familiar? A person separated from his spouse living far away meets someone else, falls in love, and has a child together. This unconventional relationship of Alexander Fraser and Elizabeth Thornton is exactly the same as that of James Hamilton and Rachel Faucett Lavien. 

...With their similar histories, it is easy to see why “James Hamilton and Rachel Hamilton his housewife” and “Alexander Fraser and Elizabeth Thornton his housewife” befriended each other on St. Eustatius in 1758. This information about the Frasers demonstrates yet again that unconventional marital arrangements were quite common in the West Indies. It also shows that churches baptized illegitimate children, a topic relevant to whether Alexander Hamilton would have been baptized as a child. - by Michael E. Newton, here 

These subjects keep coming up: both that AH would have been denied baptism, and would have been ostracized as a child because of the ‘irregularity’ of his parents’ relationship. New scholarship is exciting; even more so when it challenges existing narratives.

I’m very interested in the ways AH maintained ties in the West Indies, which would also suggest he did not find his childhood traumatizing in the way it has been discussed recently. William Duer, who had been a West Indian planter, served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury.

[revolutionary-pirate]

I am sorry your convention do not feel themselves legally authorized to make examples of the villains they have apprehended. If that is the case, the well-affected will hardly be able to keep a watch on the ill. The general is determined, if he can, bring some of those in his hands under the denomination of spies, to execute them. General Howe hanged a captain of ours, belonging to Knowlton's Rangers, who went to New York to make discoveries. I do not see why we should not make retaliation.

Tench Tilghman to William Duer on October 3rd, 1776

Duer responded by saying “In the name of justice hang two or three of the villains you have apprehended. They will certainly come under the denomination of spies.” When news of Nathan Hale’s death reached them at headquarters, everyone was angry and wanted to do something, but there was nowhere for them to channel their anger and they just were looking for excuses to hang someone. They were entirely willing to just invent evidence of spying activity by some of their prisoners just to gain some sort of retribution for Hale. They were prevented from carrying this out, however. Naturally, the same would happen four years later but with the roles reversed. The letters that Tilghman wrote to Duer were in accordance with the request from the New York Provincial Congress that Washington assign one of his aides-de-camp to the duty of communicating to them daily anything worthy of note from September 22, 1776, until November 17th, 1776. Tilghman’s acceptance of the task had the smoothest “You got my name wrong” correction I have ever witnessed: 

You are pleased to call me Richard, but I have the honour and pleasure to be,                 Yr. most obt.                Tench Tilghman.

It’s probably worth noting that Tench had a brother named Richard, which may have been where the confusion originated.

[philiployd-author]

#RealFlashbytes by #PhiliipLoyd #realwritersmarket

Flashbytes on Forbes - William Duer and the Great Wall Street Crash of 1792

[philiployd-author]

Flashbytes on Forbes - William Duer and the Great Wall Street Crash of 1792

William Duer by Philip Loyd … (Blast from the Past) …  That’s right, your beloved founder Philip Loyd is now doing his crazy Flashbytes thing on, of all places, Forbes. Philip on Forbes. And about whom? What? Hamilton? Franklin? Not hardly. How about William Duer? Huh? Exactly. William Duer and the great Wall Street crash of 1792. Come check out The Panic, as it was originally titled, on…

Flashbytes on Forbes - William Duer and the Great Wall Street Crash of 1792

[46ten]

The Bunner siblings

A follow-up to this post that mentions Rudolph Bunner, the husband of Elizabeth Matilda Church.

Rudolph had one sister, Anna Bedford Bunner (1783-1864). SHE married John Duer (1782-1858), the son of William Duer (yes THAT infamous one; 1744-1799) and Catherine Alexander (1755-1826). Which means Elizabeth’s sister-in-law was married to 1) the son of her uncle’s most infamous former employee; 2) the great-nephew of William Livingston. (Here’s a link to a hilarious Livingston-Alexander family fight.) John Duer studied law at AH’s office in the late 1790s. 

To finish this up, it’s easy to speculate that Rudolph (born 1779) was named after Lt Col Rudoph Bunner, who died at the Battle of Monmouth in 1778, but I have not found enough about the Bunner family to confirm how closely connected they were. The veteran was in the PA regiment, and young Rudolph was born in GA, and I cannot find out more about his father’s (George Bunner) family. 

[46ten]

Gossip, 18th century style

Lady Catherine Alexander (Lady Kitty) married William Duer at her father's home near Basking Ridge, NJ, in July 1779.  George Washington was in attendance, though apparently Henry Knox, and his wife, Lucy, were not. On 8Aug1779, Henry shared this juicy gossip with Lucy: 

Lady Kitty really kept her own Secrets uncommonly well...We did not suppose she was married at the time we were at Baskenridge. Mr. Duer informed a gentlemen of it not long after my return from you. I thought it pretty good authority to be sure, but did not know but it might be in jest. The day before yesterday I was mentioning the affair to Colo. Hay of Fishkill who said he believed it was true that they were married, for that the night before they had slept together at his house.  This was convincing to me for though it was possible Mr. Duer might, in jest, say that he was married. Yet I did not believe that Lady would merely for the sake of jest and without any Counter security go to bed, even [with] Mr. Duer. [transcribed by Phillip Hamilton]

Was Lady Kitty’s wedding really a big secret? Did William Duer have such a reputation for comedy that people thought he would have been joking about being Lady Kitty’s husband? (Though the implication that Duer didn’t have a reputation as a rapist of upperclass women is helpful.) I love the gossipy tone - “I was telling someone else, and he said it must be true because they slept together at my house.” Was Colonel Udny Hay otherwise in the habit of permitting unmarried, unrelated, opposite sex people to sleep together at his house? Although Knox is still a bit uncertain - maybe their sleeping together was part of the ongoing joke? What was this 18th century counter security for a bedmate?