#willow negativity

[cauldronofmorning]

top 5 Buffy unpopular opinions?

1) I don’t think either Angel or Spike were good for Buffy. For Angel, like Dawn said she was crying all the time, and the problems with abusive s6 Spuffy and the bad ship fic writing of s7 (I’m going to ignore my pain for your redemption, ignore my friends who are right to distrust you and you can give me a sappy speech once) are obvious. I way prefer Buffy/Faith, better bond and redemption, and whirlwind shipping (shorter way of saying Spike/Angel, Angel/Darla, Spike/Dru), which is fucked up but fun for them. I just want Buffy to be happy really.

2) I’m a firm member of Buffy Summers Defense Squad, and literally everyone except Tara and Anya is terrible to her in season 6, but she was a horrible general who called a girl who committed suicide a weak idiot (which was triggering) and she deserved to be told she couldn’t stay in the house. Hell it was written as “betraying the great Buffy” anyway.

3) Drusilla is horrifically underappreciated, both writing wise and fandom, in a fun mix of misogyny and ableism. Like yeah let’s all act like she’s a cheating harpy and not a victim suffering from abuse and stockholm.

4) As soon as Willow told Tara to keep her mouth shut, I couldn’t like her again. It’d be one thing if they kept with the abusive excuses, but like so many things in season 6, they got halfway with interesting and changed it into absolving magic addiction.

5) Mixing two together, but if Spike had to come back for season 7, the original Beneath You ending is vastly more interesting and acknowledging than Whedon’s version, and his “redemption” in that season was terrible while going over to Angel actually made him sorta likeable again.  Good meta on that here.

[drusillathekiller]

In regards to your recent post, I recently rewatched "When She Was Bad" and saw the start of the long running theme of Buffy's PTSD: Buffy is troubled, so becomes more and more isolated, which makes it worse. The thing is, instead of her friends not asking her what's wrong and offering her support, they go behind her back and discuss "what to do with her". And the thing that REALLY frustrates me is that they KNOW what's wrong with her after a while, yet do nothing about it. (1/2)

So when Willow asks, “GOD, what is WRONG with you?” in 2x01, it’s really sucky of her because in the last few scenes, Giles has already told her what’s wrong. So Buffy not talking, the Scoobies not being good friends, something life threateningly dangerous happens as a result. They all blame Buffy. Buffy is incredibly hard on herself, and learns to repress her feelings to focus on the “bigger picture”: protecting everyone else HAS to come before herself. And that pattern always continues (2/2).             

I couldn’t have put it better myself.

We see this pattern in When She Was Bad, we see it in Becoming with Joyce, we see it in Dead Man’s Party, we see it when Buffy is left to claw her way out of her own grave after being dragged out of heaven, then feeling the need to conceal what happened to save her friend’s feelings. Buffy is trapped in a constant state of emotional repression, having to hide her depression and PTSD for the sake of her friends. It say a lot that in season 6 she felt she could only confide in Spike, a soulless mass murdering demon who has tried to kill her at least half a dozen times. That doesn’t reflect well on her support system. 

Really though, as much as my heart aches for this element of the series, it feels very realistic and relatable to me. I mean, how many people with PTSD have isolated themselves from their friends for fear that their illness makes them a burden? How many friends and family of people with PTSD react badly or lose patience with their loved one? How many don’t react at all, finding it easier to pretend not to notice than confront it? I hate that this happens to Buffy, she deserves so much better, but as heart-breaking as it is it feels very authentic to me. 

xoxox

[cauldronofmorning]

Me, rewatching all of Buffy for the first time in twenty years: there’s a lot of problems and especially with S6, Willow should have been a load more called out than she actually was

Also me, when it’s time for Once More With Feeling: I’M UNDER YOUR SPELL~

[agoremaiden]

The more I think about it, the more I put Spike and Willow on the same level? I have love for them both (for different reasons) and I relate to them, but they’re both abusers that the (Buffy team at least) writing didn’t want to deal with and swerved to either magic addiction or “Buffy was the *real* abuser honest”.

[buffyboleyn]

I've been thinking a lot about Willow's treatment of Buffy, and I've gotten to a conclusion: Willow, unlike Xander, has Buffy's 'best interest' in mind when she does those things. And in a way that makes her more dangerous. If you confronted Xander about the horrible ways he's treated Buffy, under the right amount of pressure he'd admit he was being selfish and abusive. Willow, on the other hand, would swear up and down that all her abuse of magic, drying Buffy's finances off, abusive words(1/2)

and alienation of Buffy were all in Buffy's sake. "But I brought her back to life!", "But I did it because she needed me to!", "If I hadn't done it she wouldn't have snapped out of being whiny!", "It was for the scoobies!!" and so on. The worst abusers are the ones who believe they're in the right. But tbh the worst part is that the narrative is mostly on her side in this. (2/2)

I’m getting to this late because there was A LOT of discourse today lol but this is very good. I don’t know what else to add other than I think this is a really authentic portrayal of a troubled friendship. I’ve been in bad friendships and it’s harder to recognize when you’re using each other because mutuality is supposedly the basis of the relationship and you have to keep telling yourself that. 

[buffyboleyn]

right before the tabula rasa spell, buffy is pouring her heart out before the gang and maybe if the spell had gone off they would have reach some semblance of catharsis and mutual communication but then...willow fucked up

and this is not the last time this happens. there is a scene later in smashed where buffy tries to tell willow about spike but then amy comes in; willow’s pain always steals the front seat from buffy wow

[buffyboleyn]

this is kinda off topic, but you reminded me how much it pissed me off when willow made this comment that was like "buffy, sweet girl, not that bright". like not only is it really gross for willow to be belittling buffy's intelligence behind her back, willow should know how baseless and untrue a statement it is, given that she's been working with buffy for years, and has witnessed buffy's intelligence on countless occasions. that line just upset me a lot.

You’re right; that is something very eww yet also ringing very true for Willow. 

This is not an isolated incident; as much as she loves Buffy, Willow is being condescending to her at the same time. In “Earshot” she thinks “Buffy did the reading. Buffy understood the reading?”; she is shocked that Buffy gets a higher mark than her in a psychology assignment. (I give her much more leeway in the former because we all get these are private, invasive not-so-nice thoughts about our friends. However, this is kinda in line with everything else)

If u wanna talk about where this might come from, I’d stock in it how much Willow’s self-worth is vested in her intelligence. She’s the computer, research, magic, A-student girl and her willingness to ignore Buffy’s intelligence could be a reactionary thing to mentally preserve her “place” in the gang. Kids who rest their identity on being the smart one of their group and/or get most of their positive attention from adults and peers for being smart can develop a protectiveness of their status like that (not that I would know *sweats nervously*).....

but this quote is from season 7 in Chosen. Willow has had plenty of time to develop her identity beyond the “smart” one so idk. Season 7 is not so great a season for the scoobies re: Buffy....a lot of high school resentments probably resurfacing for everyone....some people really can’t get past Buffy’s archetype as a that blonde “bimbo”/ popular girl who will never leave her hometown while you’re a CEO, etc. and is it possible that Willow who has been bullied by those types before internalizes that a bit? yeah, possibly.

again, buffy’s relationship with any of the scoobies is not so great in season 7 so it could come from there. there is a history to that comment tho

[buffyboleyn]

i fucking LOVE all your scoobie negativity okay it's just driving me harder into this giles/buffy hole (which is great, not romantic, but like. come on.) and I JUST LOVE WILLOW SO MUCH /BECAUSE/ SHE'S SO TERRIBLE. her arc is so INTERESTING TO ME. doing a full rewatch is like watching a car crash in extremely slow motion.

Now there’s a receipt I like to read!!!!

And I’m glad you get joy of out her! I feel like Willow the character could have been great; a legend of problematic faveness! But the show keeps trying to tell me that she’s anything but an opportunistic controller with ambition from the start! With some selective editing, I really enjoy Willow’s rise to power too.

and buffy/giles has it problems, but i love it too