Hi! I was directed here via standveryfarawayfromward who said that you were a great person to talk to about Btvs. I was wondering, do you think that Angel and Spike are comparable as characters to Grant Ward?
Heyyyy, thanks for the referral, standveryfarawayfromward! And this is a pretty complex question that is gonna piss people off either way, so whatevs. I think they are comparable in the sense that legitimate parallels can be made but are they similar characters? eh
First, BTVS makes the distinction between Angel and Angelus (like it or not, that’s the canon we’ve been given, if you want to be all structualist about it) whereas the SHIELD!Ward/Hydra!Ward dichotomy is much muddier because 1) the former never “existed” in the sense that he is a character invented by Ward whereas Angel/Angelus are two identities in a body and 2) although SHIELD!Ward is a mummer’s farce, I think he bled into Hydra!Ward (aka Ward) as a loved persona that Ward wants to be but can never have because he is not willing to commit to the self-effacement and responsibility for his actions. Either way, this dichotomy is a false one such that all we have is one douche in one shitbag instead of one douche and one less stinky douche in a shitbag.
And the “romantic interest white dude turns a wow 360 early in the series” thing with Ward and Angel. but i think Ward is more comparable to Spike not only because Spike is the same but modified persona pre and post soul, but the William/Spike dichotomy is not exactly falsified but definitely problematized in the text that echoes with Ward. “Spike” is an artifice that shores itself up on the death of POC women and “Agent Grant Ward” was artifice that shored itself up on the atrocities of Hydra and the reflection admiration of Team Bus/Kara for a man who doesn’t really exist.
And Spike post-soul is still pretty misogynistic but has the gall to be guilty about it, sometimes. He still blames Buffy a bit for Seeing Red, he victim blames a lady in an alley in ATS, the first thing Spike does when he becomes corporeal again is sexually pressure his ex-girlfriend Harmony, and he still tosses feminized terms as insults towards men. Ward’s misogyny in presentation though is comparable to Angel has definitely a messed up paternalistic relationship to women and Ward patronizes the women around him (once he realizes he likes Skye, he’s hesitant to teach her self-defense because, ew, he should be the one looking out for her).
Oh, and both Ward and Spike are really bad at figuring out (or, more accurately, just plain caring) that the object of their affections finds them disgusting. I think Skye and Buffy represent very much of the same things for these guys; a sense of self and integrity that they have always lacked, the ability to form communities and build legitimate networks of love and respect, social validation, the ability to eschew tradition. These dudes couldn’t achieve these things by themselves, so why not date/abduct someone who has all these qualities for you in a petite, pretty package?
