#writersnatural

[jasmineintheforest]

GODSTIEL!

Gamble era Cas supremacy forever

[trains-gengar]

missing sera gamble hours 😭😭😭 number 1 dean understander 😭😭😭

[sailorsally]

What do you think is Ben Edlund’s full name?

Benjamin

Benedict

Bennett

Benson

Something else (in the tags)

Voting ended onMay 2, 2024

[annarubys]

when dean said whatever you’re doing, please. i need your help dad. literally top 10 most fucked up moments from my adolescence

[jasmineintheforest]

Oh uk what else Carver era did? It changed Cas' status in angelic military society by increasing his status. And that's just another part of how the entire political perspective completely shifts.

In Kripke era, you could interpret Cas and Uriel and Anna as just normal angel warriors. Cogs in the machine. They're not actually privy to any of the plans from upstairs. They're given orders and asked to keep faith and obey no matter what. Otherwise, they will simply kill you. They May try to brainwash you. But honestly that's not the only go to. After like two times of that, if you're still rebelling, they go for the kill. (What they did to Anna, Uriel, for example. Cas does have one period of time when he's brought back in and brainwashed in a non-literal way. But then he rebels even after that and they really do just try to take him out completely). And this established Cas as someone who "led the rescue mission to Hell" as something grandiose. But we see that it's not. It's a retrieval mission if anything. Dean has broken the seal. There's no reason to let Hell keep him anymore. And honestly, even Hell isn't super invested in that. After all, they both want the same thing. Even if the low-level angels and demons don't know it.

(And this makes so much more sense for how Cas supposedly rescued Dean from Alastair and Lilith, who are very serious threats in Kripke era. Cas doesn't actually stand a solid chance against them. Stole Dean from right under their noses. I wonder if they simply put up a fight and then let him do it? Ik Lilith might not even have been in Hell atp but still...just smth to think about.)

Anyways, this establishes the lore of Heaven and Hell as abusive genocidal death cults. The angels who rebel do it because that's the nature of free will, not because they're special rebels or smth. Cas is not a high level angel. He's good but also he's as vulnerable as other angels. He doesn't even have the security clearance to know what the Hell mission was all about. There's a chance he died in Hell trying to retrieve Dean and Heaven certainly wouldn't care. They're only invested in people as assets and liabilities. With an evil nastiness in the mix. That's it.

In this framing, Cas and Dean do have common ground. They relate to each other and Cas chooses to die for Good. He's also risking exactly as much as Dean. They're equals in a weird way. In the nature of their allyship. They eventually work their way to a place of equality and trust.

Carver era Cas isn't this. The Naomi-led Purgatory rescue mission already sets him apart as a special angel. Angels' angel. Shit that honestly any angel could do, but they specifically want Cas to do it. Coz why? Coz he's special. That's it.

The brainwashing is literal now. It's not a metaphor for abuse and going back and forth about your faith and questioning ones' actions based on that faith. Now it's just literal. You can't be blamed for what you did when you were brainwashed. You don't need to take any accountability at all then! You could massacre children and it's not your fault. After all, normal Cas loves kids actually. In fact, he always has. (Lie).

So now Cas is special. He's special because he keeps faith in Heaven even at their worst. He will work on their behalf, in their interests, even at their absolute most evil (bodysnatcher cult leader arc for example). And he's also special coz he's a rebel. He's got the reputation of one. Even though he never actually goes against the interests of Heaven. But see, he's cool and hot and rebellious and all the ladies love him 🥵 and all the kids love him too 🥺. AND his boyfriend is so angry and violent and an idiot, but he's still so chivalrous and protective of him, don't you see?

Here, Cas isn't an equal to Dean. He's not risking the same things as him, for the same things. Cas has his own interest which is to serve Heaven and then maybe Dean. Dean has to be the only one who cares about the little guys. The ones who are truly victimised. Grieving Kevin and Charlie, Claire's assault and trafficking, his own sexual traumas and other traumas...are things he's alone in. Cas will step in to save his soul. Maybe. But he isn't actually there for Dean. (He comforts him in one ep, which was great. But I'm saying on an ideological level). He himself doesn't care for Charlie's death even. Later in Dabb era, he doesn't care about Mary's. He's an angel. He's got interests elsewhere. He just also wants Dean. And he wants Dean to just always Be There. No matter how many times he leaves. (I make this point coz early Cas is actually acutely aware of the fact that they're both always in danger and he makes his moves accordingly. For example, he'll take Dean along to challenge Raphael. Probably Dean won't die from that. He'll die to give Dean a chance to stop Sam. He knows he has to. Etc.).

He's no longer just the lower ranks. Now all his interactions are with powerful people directly. Not only is he privy to shifts in power, he's directly involved in enacting those plans. Sometimes through manipulation, but sometimes not even that.

So ya like I said before. Carver era Cas is the American version of James Bond. He's got the street cred of a working class man who's a rebel against authority and none of the actual rebellion and all of the moral greyness, and the moral "high ground" in the narrative. He's got a love interest along with several women who are into him, and all the kids love him too. He's SPECIAL. He's Cas. Even God is jealous of him for being such a hot jock. He allows himself to be possessed by eviler interests with ease and no struggle. Literally. And you love him anyway, no matter what.

[jasmineintheforest]

Each era and how it classifies the writer God is so fucking interesting. The thing is, I don't even think the writers are always trying to paint themselves into the villain God. They're usually trying to make a few self-aware points tbh. For ex., Kripke era is just not that sold on God as a helpful concept and is more concerned about how People (including angels) act in the absence of God and in His name.

But regardless, they end up painting the villains as their own mirros anyway? It's so fascinating!

Kripke era Chuck is an absent God. He lets the characters do what they want for the most part, only interfering to "shape" them with key events. He also has a weird fetishizing obsession with their suffering. And I think this Chuck is just a twisted, distorted mirror of Kripke era spn itself. Kripke is usually allowing these characters to take life on their own and he's just got his ideologies and key events in clarity. Kripke had a lot of care for his characters but it rarely comes off like he's forcing them into unnatural shapes. In this era, Chuck is a dark mirror to the real writers.

Gamble era is not self conscious enough to bring God into it at all. He's literally fully absent. However. Cas becomes God. And then dies for it. It was all very sexy and dark and hella gay and extremely Cas-centric. Make of that what you will lmao. (This era also doesn't force Sam and Dean into weird shapes, for the most part. It just has too much stupid plots. Tho s7 is goated). In this era, cosmic power struggles are cunning and evil and full of consequences tm.

Onto the next. Carver era has two Gods. Metatron steals the show and he's pretty obsessed with Cas AND he's an excellent Dean manipulator who also causes an extreme schism in the brothers' relationship (by getting Gadreel to kill Kevin and then abscond with Sam's body too). That last one is kind of rare tbh. So many villains have tried that and they usually don't succeed long enough to make Dean actually vulnerable. But Metatron's plan targets Sam and Dean a little too perfectly and they're Not Ok coz of it. This is the Cas obsessed part. And Carver does write like this. He has so much focus on Cas while also still having some poor Cas understanders in the writing team. It's so funny.

And then there's Chuck. Completely ignores Cas. Chuck is an abusive and invasive and indifferent and cruel God, yes, but he's also...forgiven? In Carver era, cosmic abusers actually do get a pass but only after they're allowed to do the darkest shit imaginable lol.

Imo this is also kinda consistent with the way Carver writes. His era is good at setting up compelling conflicts but it's so ass at resolving it or making a satisfactory arc or even being fun to watch at times XD. For eg., it's all about the brother conflicts but it won't allow them to grow or shift in their dynamics. Similarly, it's sooo much about Dean's sexual traumas, but it's extremely unsatisfying at acknowledging his pain about it. It treats him like an idiot in the same breath that it makes him so valid and complex and so human. I think it's politically very confused maybe? The end result leaves me wanting, I'll say that much.

And then there's Dabb era Chuck. He's the most invasive he's ever been. He's straight up directly involved in taking away their free will. He destroys everything he's ever built coz he's bored and his favorite toys won't do what HE wants them to do. Either he will bastardise their lives sooo much that they bend or he'll break them fully. Either way, he sucks. This is exactly how Dabb acts with the characters, like, I'm sry but. He's sooo insistent on misunderstanding the characters and then forcing them into his mold, and when they refuse, he just destroys them.

Anyways none of this is new to anyone but ig I'm perpetually fascinated by it.

And all this to also say: No wonder I can't make sense of Chuck. He isn't any one entity. He's everything at once. And they didn't put in the effort to make him cohesive within the narrative lol. And so we have so many versions. We have to like...map the Chuck journey and craft our own meta for why he is Like That.

[jasmineintheforest]

Kripke era Cas and Gamble era Cas are the only ones who take actual accountability for their actions and for the system they're a part of. That's why Cas's internal journey is so good. He takes a good, hard look at himself and everything around him and truly understands that this cannot stand. That's why he's so fucking sexy and human and lovable even when he's showing his angel side issues.

Cas in s4-7 stopped two apocalypses, though he also became God and let in the Leviathans. It's understandable because he's taking everything on himself. Because he's the only angel who even cares about the human lives they're set to destroy. The most effective thing about Cas is that he always attempts to deal with the perpetrators directly about their sins. He doesn't seek to show his support to the cause for his ego or image or advantage. He knows what's right and he confronts his kin about it. He tells the angels directly to not fucking kill people. (Rather than, say, demanding that humans take arms or help him or whatever. Like in s9 when he asks for Dean and Sam's help with angel stuff and also doesn't react to the violence they're subjected to at all. OR s9 Cas's thoughts on vessels! S6 Cas wants to shield Dean because he knows how deeply unfair it is for Dean and Sam to be called to sacrifice yet again! These are such different things).

If you think about how priveleged people can do the Right Thing effectively, the answer is often quite simple: radical action that impacts the oppressor's comfort. Cas does this. Because he knows that's the only way. Even when he knows he's going to get punished by his society for it. That's how this system goes. And he takes on the consequences, not because he's particularly prepared to face them, but because he knows nothing else will work.

Carver and Dabb era Cas, on the other hand, only ever pays lip service to real self reflection. He's self flagellating, sure. But that's not useful to anyone. Even if he is, it's alongside unrepentant angel shit. He's like a Trojan horse who brings in the bad just because he seems to have a few good things with him. At besttt. At worst, he's the worst of the angels. It's not really understandable. At least not for how he was set up. He's supposed to be the rebel who wants to stop his kind from doing evil things. But now he doesn't take any accountability. Just runs around causing havoc but he's self-hating while he does it. That's not the same guy! That's so much more boring.

One of these dudes is genuinely a brave and lovable guy who's made mistakes but trying his best. The other is just a man with excuses who wants to keep being morally dubious just because he can and it benefits his interests.

[jasmineintheforest]

The only woman writer-led era in spn not featuring the male God is actually very interesting to think about. No wonder she centered Cas so much despite not even wanting to.

S6-7 Cas is devoted to God but he is simply absent. So in a twisted way, it is only during these Godless, abandoned times that he exercises so much of his free will consciously and actually has an arc where he learns to handle free will along with the moral and emotional responsibilities it comes with (somewhat...he makes undeniable progress in it ... honestly if they hadn't killed him post-leviathan, he could have completed this arc more fully...however we would have to sacrifice the of widower arc 😔).

Cas has free will even before this. But he struggles to know that. He struggles with being too obedient as well as being too disobedient. He can't please anyone, least of all himself or God. In his total absence AND in the presence of love and wrath, he finds out how to use his autonomy. Rather catastrophically but still. (I'm not complaining coz angel genocide and scheming Cas was hot af).

And Dabb or Berens or Carver couldn't quite grasp this fullness of the self in the absence of the father God imo. I think. THEY relate to the God they made up. I highly doubt that Gamble does. She doesn't make a God in her mirror image either. She just makes the characters work for their arcs in the absence. That's where freedom and love exists.

There is nothing but emptiness in your father's image. Either make your own or suffer. She was also very clear that you also can't escape all this by simply making someone new in Your image btw.