#ziegs

[garryanthony]

(Ziegs)

SEPERATED

[uberclunge]

Were in a frat fuck you

[craigslist-exorcist]

hi. I need to get this out. I don't hate Chey. At all. I think it all can get better and that she can find a light at the end of the denial tunnel. But I left with Red. I just couldn't keep watching. Chey made me so anxious and the crew used to be a haven. A thing I did when my insomnia didn't let me sleep for three days straight. now all this time has passed. And I'm okay with it. I just miss Bstar and the mods. I miss Ziegs being adorable with her rodents. I miss it, but can't watch it now.

 Anon’s continue:  I respect them all. But it makes me sad that a huge chapter is gone now. I can't watch the streams anymore. Now I'm all grown up. I hope Zeigs is okay. ):Hey, anon! I don’t hate Cheyenne either, even if her toxic persona makes me dislike her, hate is a strong word I only use with severe emotions. And I hope that, too, even if I don’t like her, most everybody has room for improvement, even I myself. And I feel where you’re coming, the streams used to be my safe-haven, too, Saturdays loved to fuck up for me, and you know, every time I could just pop in. And it was chill, and I could just lay there in my bed with my tablet with earphones and just. I was really calm with those streams, and now, if I go on those streams my whole mood goes to shit and I just can’t. I miss it, too, anon, those were the good times, it makes me sad, too. But all good things have to come to an end, alright? It’s best to accept it, and try to move on from it. Everything turns into a memories, and memories are good, just don’t forget them. Ziegs - to my knowledge - is doing better than before. And that’s good. She’s a sweetheart who deserves to be happy. 

[imaginative-phlo]

LNC DRAMA

Just ignore if you don't watch late night with cry and russ. For one, and most importantly, it's none of the fans fucking right to do ANYTHING TO ANYONE RIGHT NOW. Support who you want, but don't you try to mess with anyone or miraculously make yourselves devil's advocate. They are both human and dealing with a lot more than we see. Supporting one person who is suicidal is great,but telling the other to KILL themselves or that they're a piece of shit, is the most horrible and disgusting thing anyone can do. How does that make you any LESS of a bully???? Leave them ALL alone unless you're supporting them. Shut the hell up otherwise.

[genericartistperson]

I normally don’t post stuff like this but...

Am I understanding correctly that someone from LNC left because she felt suicidal and bullied by Chey?

i don’t believe Chey should be witch hunted for this but god damn.  That girl has caused so many issues and drama it’s unbelievable.  I read her apology and I just wanna say that 1. having BPD or whatever is not an excuse for being shitty towards people

2.  I find it kinda funny that Chey is upset that Ziegs talked about this publicly instead of privately when she herself made a public post about how she felt upset that she wasn’t invited that one time because of Cry forgetting instead of talking to him about how she felt in private. But yeah, these are human beings guys so treat them as such.  No one deserves to get threats and harassment. 

[l1ttl3s1st3r]

I’m really satisfied with how cry and snake handled their explanations and apologies, personally. Obviously it’s not my opinion that counts in any way, but they did a really good job of it, and were really sincere.

(The rest of this is going to be under a read more bc it got way longer than I expected. I’ll probs put a tl;dr at the bottom for convenience, as well.)

The only problem I have (and it’s not even with them specifically, just with people’s reaction to Ziegs’ post) is that there’s a general vibe of “well if she spoke up about it, it could have been fixed. And while I totally agree that better communication could have easily solved this or prevented it from happening, there’s a huge flaw to that way of thinking, because speaking up in that sort of situation is extremely difficult. For one thing, both Ziegs and Cheyenne are (/were) established members of the crew, and generally, you don’t want to put strain on your friends. You also don’t want to risk them brushing you off or getting mad at you, because it’s already bad enough having an issue with one person, you don’t want to add to that number. Added to that is the fact that Cheyenne is Cry’s girlfriend. This isn’t to say she gets special treatment, because I can’t really say if she does or doesn’t, but it makes bringing up an issue even more intimidating when you’re having an issue with what basically amounts to your boss’s girlfriend.

So of course Ziegs would be worried about bringing it up. In that case, it’s easier to do exactly what she did: leave quietly and don’t make a fuss about it. The thing is, with a fairly large fan base, people are going to want an explanation, and they’re not going to let it go until they get one. That’s just how people are. So, inevitably, Ziegs told people her reasons for leaving. She was fortunate and got a lot of support, but it could have gone way differently, which is what she was worried about in the first place.

I guess, what I’m trying to say is that up until this event, there was an atmosphere that was hostile to complaints and concerns being raised, and hopefully that can now change. Hopefully, a more open, understanding, and level-headed environment can be achieved so that this won’t happen again in the future. I’m sure if Ziegs thought her concerns would have been considered, and considered objectively, she would have raised them earlier, rather than letting them get to this point, but the fact of the matter is that such an environment doesn’t currently exist (as far as I can tell, as an objective observer).

On another note, I’m not quite as satisfied with Cheyenne’s response (but yet again, it’s not my opinion that matters, but I’m going to state it anyway, in the hopes that it will be reasonable and help others see it in a more reasonable light, rather than blindly hating or glorifying Cheyenne, which we all know will happen). I have two main problems with it. I won’t lie, the first paragraph or so was great, and it started out sounding like a completely sincere apology. The thing is, after that first little bit, it seemed less sincere; which isn’t to say that it wasn’t sincere, just that to me, personally, it didn’t seem as sincere in the middle/end as it did in the beginning, and I’m going to explain why. It started out with heartfelt apology things (I’m sorry, it shouldn’t have gone that far, etc) but then it turned into something that sounded more like excuses (I wouldn’t do that, if I had known I would have stopped, I didn’t mean to, etc) which is fairly normal for the human race, in my experience (which is, admittedly, somewhat limited, since I haven’t been around all that long). But it doesn’t excuse the actions, and actually makes it sound more like accusations, like it’s also Ziegs’ fault. 

I’m going to point out a few phrases that I particularly have something to say about, and want to make it clear that I don’t think that these phrases in any way make Cheyenne’s apology void or something, I just want to I guess help her understand how some people (including myself, in some cases) may think, and how, in some ways, she’s wrong. (And I want it to be extremely clear that this is not meant meanly, even though that may be difficult to tell from across the internet, where my inflections and tone may not be understood as I meant them. I just want this to I guess be just a gentle reminder? a gentle explanation? my words are failing me in this, But I assure you it is meant kindly, and I’m trying to express these points logically to hopefully produce a better understanding on all sides.) “I am also NOT the type of person to push someone to suicidal thoughts.” But the thing is, you did. It may not have been intentional, but that was the result of your actions. And because of your somewhat abrasive (and intimidating) personality, people may have issues bringing their concerns about your words and actions up to you. The only way I can see to prevent this from happening is to make it clear to those around you that if you do something wrong or hurtful, it is completely fine to bring it up, and to be open-minded about their concerns. (and I’m not talking about jealous fans, because i know there are plenty of those who will attack you and hate you simply because of your relationship with cry, I’m talking about people who you regularly interact with. They should know that it’s fine to talk to you about this.)  “In no way, through text or through speech, did you try to get to me to tell me what I was doing.” As I stated above, there are plenty of reasons why Ziegs may not have wanted to come to you personally. When you feel like you’ve been bullied by someone, generally you don’t want to speak to them first; you want to know you have the support of your friends, and you might think it best to talk to someone you know who is close to this person first, so they can help you test the waters. Ziegs stated she was afraid of you, and I have no reason to doubt that. And, speaking from experience, you generally don’t want to talk to someone you fear without support, and you might not even want to talk to them at all. So it makes sense that Ziegs went to Cry instead of you; she thought he was the person best equipped to help her solve the problem. And maybe that situation could have been handled better as well, but I don’t have any details on that conversation, so I can’t say for sure how well it was handled by either party. As I said above, maybe you should make it more clear to those close to you that it’s fine (and even encouraged!) to speak to you about these problems. That way those people don’t have to worry that they can’t talk to you, and you won’t accidentally hurt those close to you. (and I realize this may be more easily said than done, but I think simply saying something along the lines of “If I ever do anything that upsets you, tell me so we can work it out” would be pretty effective.) 

Now time for more positive things that I want to respond to! (because telling someone what they did right is also an important part of criticism, which I think people, especially people on tumblr, tend to forget)

“I know I’m a bit too abrasive and harsh for some people and I’m slowly starting to realize it can actually hurt them.” It’s really good that you’re understanding this! As is said about addiction, realizing you have a problem is the first step to fixing it (which is a serious paraphrase but oh well, it works). A lot of people would blow it off and say/think “well if I offend them, that’s their problem, they shouldn’t be so sensitive!” but it’s really important to understand how your actions affect others and make an effort to be conscious about it. 

“I am a person who is trying.” Trying is all we can reasonably ask of anyone, and you trying to make yourself a better person (or like, a better version of yourself) is admirable. I wish you luck in your endeavor, and I’m sure other people will also respond well to your efforts.

And, as promised: TL;DR: cry and snake apologized well, there were so many ways this could have gone better, there’s definitely a way to solve and prevent this, and while Cheyenne may need to work hard to become a better/more welcoming and outwardly kind person, as long as she does her best and puts in effort, it’s completely possible, and I’m rooting for all of you. 

of course, Ziegs and Cheyenne might never be friends again (there’s no way to know what the future holds), but at the very least, everyone can agree to be civil and try to do better, and hopefully things will be better for the crew and the stream from now on.

(and now I’m going to tag those involved/mentioned in the hopes that maybe they’ll read this, though I highly doubt it, since it’s so long-winded (sorry about that))

cryaotic daaes msf-actual ziegsden 

[craigslist-exorcist]

what is your standing with chey? like what do you think about all the drama and everything in general?

Finally, getting to talk about it. Woo.I just want to mention the first time that I knew the Cheyenne existed was before she was Cry’s girlfriend, I was fine with her than. I was fine with her when she was his girlfriend. But I started realizing after her stupid insults towards the PDC fandom - which I really don’t even ship anymore - that she was toxic.And it kept getting more apparent, and Red left, and I was just like, this is bullshit. While I know that the whole reasoning for Red leaving wasn’t just Cheyenne, but I believe she did have a hand in it, and at that point, if felt like Red was just replaced with Cheyenne. It was like you had this high class store, with designer items, Red was like, a designer bag or something. And than it turns into this discount store with a knock off bag (Cheyenne) that is toxic, and falls apart quite easily. I wanted nothing to do with the streams, and than Cheyenne just kept being more and more toxic, she’s started so much bullshit and did so many bullshit things that I can even’t keep track of half of it. But it does exist, I know it, and I know that Sinn knows that, and my other friends who are in the LNC fandom know that.And right now?After everything that I’d been through before this started, and than this. I want to strangle somebody.Getting emotionally/verbally/mentally abused is one of the worst things to go through, it fucks you up. And after it, it’ll take you years to ever be the same person you were, if you even can be that same person. There’s a chance you can’t, with depression and anxiety it’s terrible.You feel like them abusing you is your fault, that their doing this because you deserve it. You feel like they have justifications for this behavior, that you’re in the wrong when you haven’t done something. If they start doing it for no reason at all, you’ll spend hours wondering what you did wrong, and what you did to deserve it. Even if you did nothing, you’ll come up with some nonexistent reason why they started verbally abusing you, or you just drop it, and believe that you are the one in the wrong. You apologize for nothing, you apologize simply for upsetting them for no reason. You take it, you shut up and play nice even if you’re in public or private, you just shut up and take it because you believe that you deserve this.That it’s your fault, and that there’s something wrong with you that nobody wants to bring up because they pity you, you think that everybody hates you. They make you hate yourself, and you get to the point where you can’t talk. Someone will ask you for your opinion and you won’t know what to say because you haven’t been given that opportunity to develop in opinion about this subject, or you’re terrified that your opinion will be wrong. You’re terrified if you say the wrong thing, it’ll start all over again, even if these are people you trust. You will be too terrified to tell them, you won’t be able to out of fear this abuser that you have put up with. When someone asks what’s wrong, you won’t be able to say. You say you’re fine, that it’s fine. They’d ask you about your relationship with your abuser, and you’d say it was fine and that they were a great person. Because if you didn’t, and that imagined to get back to that abuser, they’d twist your words.Make it out that if it was you’re fault, and that how dare you accuse them of something of that sorts. After being mentally/verbally/emotionally abused, you won’t be the same. It will take years of therapy, and recovering to even get to the point you can say if you don’t like that color or if you like that. The long term effects of abuse are some of the worst possible things to get over, to live with. Because it’s hard, because you can’t. Because you’re terrified of what would happen if you got happy again.You’re terrified of relationships, and friendships, and any sort of acquaintance, you’re terrified of people you don’t know because they might do what that abuser did to you. Speaking up about this abuser is the most terrifying and difficult thing, and when you tell this to someone that you trust, that is affiliated with this abuser, you except them to help you out. Most defiantly if you’ve known them for some time, you expect them to defend you. Help it change, help you be happy again. And when they defend this abuser, and than claim that they don’t know what to do. Basically give you the shut up and play nice, or leave. That’s the worst thing to go through, because you built up the courage to talk to this about a trusted friend. It’s tore down, you think maybe you should shut up and play nice, because that’s what your trusted friend suggested. You think that’s right, the way to go. Maybe you’re were wrong, but you weren’t. All a long you were right, all a long they were the one that should have had to shut up and play nice or leave. Not you, you did nothing wrong but be human, even if this abuser is human, there isn’t no right for these things that they have said against you, and even if it won’t hold up in a court of law, like domestic or sexual. It is still wrong, it is still a problem. As important as either of those. But now, you have the choice to speak up to tons of people on the internet, to make that sure that this changes for the other people, so this abuser doesn’t take this anger out on them, or act sickly sweet until another victim decides to show up that they can verbally abuse just like they did to. This abuser could ruin your career, something you’ve spent years working on. You’ve spent tons of effort into getting to this point, but they can destroy that if you don’t just shut up and keep the reasoning behind you not wanting to be around this individual any longer. But you have to, you can’t just be quiet about it, you can’t just let this continue, even if you’re putting something you’ve worked on for years now. You just can’t shut up and play nice, that’s not how it should be. That’s not right, it was never right. ^^ That is an over-exaggerated stand point, I think, but I was going upon the long term stand point of having to deal with this abuser for years.In case you don’t understand, the abuser in that explanation is Cheyenne, the one the post is talking to is Ziegs, and the friend is Cry. I am glad Ziegs left when she did, I’m glad she spoke up, many of you might not understand how hard that would be, and maybe that above helped you understand.I’m glad she got out of there, and addressed this as a problem. Under no circumstance should she have to apologized for speaking up against someone that was (*allegedly* so you Cheyenne worshipers don’t start that shit about I’m not there, that I’m not in the ‘inside’) verbally abusing her. My stand point on Cheyenne?She’s the kind of person that I would not under any circumstance associate or try to get to know, she’s not the kind of person I’d let meet my friends or anyone I care about if there was some circumstance that I had to see her. I wouldn’t let her near anyone I care about, and if they wanted to meet her, and they had to, I wouldn’t stop them. But I would explain to them all of this.Cheyenne is not the kind of person that I could maintain a conversation with in public without causing a scene in the terms of cussing her until I can’t breathe (and I have asthma) or bitch-slapping her right across that pretty little face of hers. I don’t like have assumptions, or opinions without a lot of factual proof. I don’t like talking about someone - making assumptions - that I do not know because I realize that everybody is a person, a human, that has emotions and feelings like the rest of us. I realize they are not perfect, they have flaws, and histories. And they mess up, and they screw up. And they don’t always apologize, and sometimes they make real bad jokes that shouldn’t be said.But I am, the fandom is human, too. I understand humans judge as a defense mechanism, I’ve been raised on the ‘treat someone how you would like to be treated’ and that respect is a standing you should have. But I’ve also been taught that respect is gained, it isn’t something deserved to every person with the benefit of the doubt. That’s kindness. But I can’t stand Cheyenne, and there a few things that she could do - such as apologize - for her actions that could gain her an ounce of respect from me.I will apologize here, and right here only, that I am sorry. But that is one of the only sorrys that the fandom and crew will get today from me. 

[actias-lunar]

This writing plan is going great