38. Has a roleplayer ever changed your view on a character? If so, how? Good or bad? For better or for worse?
I’ve seen several roleplayers flesh out GRRM’s characters in colourful and convincing ways -- so convincing that it becomes canon in your mind. Some examples are @tasspace ‘s Gregor, @viktor-noctis ‘s Ilyn Payne. These were one dimensional cookie cutter bad guys in the books but these RPers gave them back stories and motivations that turned them into the multi-faceted characters you always wished they could be.
52. What’s a trope or plot you think is overdone in roleplay?
Dany sleeping with everyone. Oh wait, that’s not a trope?
53. What’s a trope or plot you’ll never get sick of roleplaying?
My Swedish is by no means perfect so I'm not 100% but here's what I hope is an accurate English translation of the new interview with Tobias. Thank you to Jompia666 on Twitter for posting pictures of the article! ♡
There have been rumours that you intend to shut down or at least pause Ghost and do something completely different. Is that true?
I'm starting to reach a point where I feel I need to do something else for a while,’ says Tobias Forge. What has happened over the past 16 years has been within the limits of what I can handle. Most of the time, everything has gone pretty much hand in hand with my energy level. Being a functional supervisor or project manager does not mean that you have a completely stress-free life, but even when there have been stressful deadlines, everything has been within my capacity to accomplish. In all five previous album/tour cycles, I had already had a meeting with my agent at this point about when the next tour would start. I probably already had the title for the next album and a cover – or at least a cover idea – ready. I had probably already started talking to Bea Åkerlund about costumes. I would already have had one foot in the next phase. This time, I don't – and that's really the difference: that right now, it's unclear what the next step will be. Now we're making a concert film that in many ways will be very different from ‘Rite Here, Rite Now’ and that's super fun. But then there will be other things. I think that feels both very nice and very natural. The reason it may sound dramatic is probably because Ghost has been going non-stop for all these years. Fifteen to sixteen years is a long time. Look at any band that has been around for fifteen years. I think that feels both very nice and very natural. The reason it may sound dramatic is probably because Ghost has been going non-stop all these years. Fifteen to sixteen years is a long time. Look at any band that has been around for fifteen years. The Stones had reached 1977 by then.
And in the 1980s, The Rolling Stones didn't even tour for six or seven years.
Exactly. No tour between 1982 and 1989. Being in the Stones in the 1980s would have been pretty easy going. Iron Maiden and Metallica, 15 years after their debut albums, had reached the mid- and late 1990s, respectively.
What are you going to do instead?
I have various ideas that I will try to realise over the next few years. These include both musical and visual projects. Some things are a little more realistic, while others will be relatively difficult to implement.
And Ghost isn't part of the plans at all?
No. But when it comes to the claim that I would ‘shut down Ghost,’ my response is that there is nothing to shut down—because we are not a group in the traditional sense. Sure, when we eat together, it's a band dinner, but we can't really split up any more than we do after every tour. Everyone is a freelance musician who goes home and does different things. I don't need to feel like I'm closing down the pizzeria and then everyone goes home and is unemployed.
So you don't have anyone on a permanent payroll, like the musicians in Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, who are ready to go as soon as he decides to do something with them?
No, that would be unnecessary. If you're a traditional rock band, where everyone lives close to each other, those who don't have publishing rights (i.e. write the songs) would probably like to go out and play more often. That, in turn, would risk dampening the enthusiasm of some of the others – and perhaps also the audience's desire to see you. So it's usually a good idea to let things be for a while and then do it for real again. In my case, because I really want to. That has been the most important driving force for me up until now.
I suppose the fact that you now have the resources to do basically whatever you want has also contributed to this decision?
Yes. I can drive something right into the wall, within reason, but I might want to try several different things so that I don't get too upset if something doesn't work out.
But what kind of projects are we talking about? Neil Young, for example, invested a significant amount of money in manufacturing a music player that played high-definition audio, which was a complete failure, and he also invested in electric cars.
I don't have any plans like that. I'm not interested in investments at all. I find it completely uninteresting. I only enjoy things where I am a catalyst, and I should be able to do that without making money from it. Of course, you are very happy if it is not a loss-making venture or becomes impossible. Obviously, it is fun if things go well, because then you can do more things. But the common driving force behind the things that will now take up my time is that they are entirely driven by passion. It's liberating, inspiring and feels really fun. That's the reason I'm sitting here today: it has to be passion-driven. I wanted to do Ghost as a hobby and make it so much fun that I wanted to invest what little time I had in it.
To be honest, I'm not entirely surprised by this decision. You're a creative person who has been ploughing the same furrow for over 15 years. Sooner or later, the soil becomes depleted and less fertile, and you need to grow something else in between. Joni Mitchell, for example, has alternated between recording albums and touring with painting pictures, describing it as crop rotation. She didn't want to be forced to choose between her different creative outlets and also believed that they inspired each other.
I totally agree with that. You have to ‘go away and do something else’ to feel that you have another… I was about to say ‘value’, but that's not quite what I mean. Rather, that you can have a different function. This may be difficult to relate to if you're not involved in bands, or reading it from a certain angle, but my desire to become a rock star didn't just mean that I wanted to ‘be seen by my dad’. It's not just exhibitionism. The desire is based on a creative streak, the strategist in you, the challenge. Being a hunter and wanting to hunt what you don't have. What does Dave Grohl do when he's not playing drums in a small band or singing in a huge one? Well, he's busy with his barbecue business, shovelling coal, grilling and cutting. Where he gets to be a little bit ‘real’.
And Bob Dylan welds metal gates, so he can work with his hands and avoid thinking, ‘I am Bob Dylan, artist and Nobel Prize winner in literature.’
Exactly. My motivation isn't that I have to be the centre of attention and be the singer in a band all the time.
I interpret that as meaning that you don't want Ghost to take over your life completely.
It has already taken so many years, so if I am to be able to do some of the other things, I have to do it this way. I would also like to say that it naturally has to do with my family as well. For most of my children's upbringing, I have often been absent. Physically, of course, but also mentally. Now that the time remaining of their school years is starting to feel quite predictable, I want to take the opportunity to be… That life does not always consist of the ‘force majeure’ band. Because that's how it has been. Having ageing parents also plays a role.
It is an old truth that a person rarely lies on their deathbed and thinks, ‘I should have worked more and spent less time with family and friends.’
Haha, kind of. And I've probably felt that way for a couple of years. Several friends have ‘distanced’ themselves a bit because I've been the one who never shows up, or because things suddenly come up and ‘damn, I have to do that instead.’ You get to a point where you have to choose, and I want to make time for the friends I have left. Instead of going into the next ‘Ghost cycle’ and just starting over again, maybe I just need to look for something else, but with the aim of finding my way back. That's why I would never say that Ghost is quitting or that something is ‘the last’. I have no idea. And that's the whole point. That, for once, I don't know.
Success breeds freedom of movement in the best case scenario, but many artists become so stuck in their artistic identity and need for validation that they don't dare take a break. Instead, they push themselves too hard. Consider what happened to Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, and others. This seems more common in the United States with its celebrity culture. They take showbiz deadly seriously, literally. They have worn themselves out because they wanted to stay at the top at any cost and did not understand that it is actually possible to take a step back or take a break.
I think I've experienced that first-hand. If I had been equipped differently, and I don't just mean financially and career-wise, but with my family, my children, my friends and all that, it could have ended badly. If I had been in Avicii's situation, alone on the other side of the world in a big house and so young, I would probably have handled it in a completely different way. Now, however, I have a certain ‘grounding’ here at home. I live in Stockholm and, for better or worse, I'm quite accessible, which I think is nice. I don't want to live in a gated community, isolated from others. I want to be close by and be able to do normal things.
And you can do that in Sweden.
You really can – and I have come to realise this over the years: that it has been a luxury to be able to step away from my character and leave it behind me. There are many who cannot do that. I have been very keen to stay on the straight and narrow, and I think I have managed it, at least most of the time.
Are you burnt out?
I have been. I hit rock bottom in September 2023, and then things were really bad for three months. It was definitely a serious warning. It was problematic on a daily basis, with anxiety attacks. I felt very strange, and it affected my need to feel that you don't have to do anything. And if what you do threatens your livelihood or livelihood, you solve it. There are very few things that you really have to do unless you're at gunpoint, and it's incredibly important to remember that. As long as you know what the consequences are. And I think I was a bit stuck in the feeling that this is the only thing there is. I got the girl, the film is over, and now I'm going to enjoy what I have.
One mustn't be ungrateful. ‘Who are you to complain, with the US number one and all that?’
It came after this, and it was fantastic. The fact that it became an album that is not free from reflections on this meant that I got another chapter, another ‘film’ or whatever you want to call it. But I also made a promise to myself: after this, I have to do something else, whatever it may be. Then it took a while to figure out what that should be and what my life should look like now and for a while to come. The feeling of not knowing exactly what it will be is nice.
Speaking of Avicii, I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch the documentary about him. Just seeing him say, ‘If this continues, I'm going to die,’ knowing what happened in the end, would have been too painful. It was a clear cry for help that was ignored. Have you seen it?
I haven't seen it – for the same reason as you. However, I did see a documentary about Robbie Williams quite close to my own experience of burnout, and it was frighteningly similar, to the extent that watching it made me feel very ill. When things were at their worst, I saw an episode of ‘Keeping Up with the Kardashians’ where Kourtney Kardashian is watching her husband Travis Barker as he's about to play with Blink-182 somewhere. And as soon as the camera went backstage and I saw it, I had an anxiety attack. That's how bad it was. The slightest connection to that triggered me. So it took a lot of work to even be able to do what I've done now.
Did you go to therapy?
I had to go to therapy and learn what was happening. Not just the mental and physical things that trigger an anxiety attack, but that there is a whole context around it. Being able to balance everything: being a father, husband, brother, son, boss, friend. It should be good too. I think everything that has happened is good, great fun and everything I have dreamed of and fought for. I really like what I do. But for it to continue to be fun, inspiring and good, you have to rebalance things. That's really the only difference, now that I've talked to the band and our crew. The only thing I say is that today, unlike all the other times, I don't know when we'll do it next.
It feels like balance is the key word.
Yes, and the need for context. Whether you are a cleaner or a king, you need to be in a context where all sides are balanced. I have joked about the freelance situation many times, and it is something that most freelancers recognise: if you have a secure nine-to-five job and long to be a writer, artist, musician or whatever, you may have the image that as soon as you can make a living doing what you really want to do, it will be Friday every day. The problem is that you lose your weekly rhythm and eventually it becomes Tuesday every day. It may sound like a luxury problem that you can shove up your arse. Those complaints are worthless. But you burn through a lot of endorphins and don't know when to stop. When burnout finally hits, it's very scary for those who experience it. Luckily, I was still somewhat aware of what it was. If it hadn't been for my wife, my children and my family, I would have been Allan Ballan in the bar instead, thinking that I didn't need anyone else and pushing myself even further. I don't know if this is too vague a comparison for readers who are not interested in culinary matters, but there are restaurants that have closed down after receiving their first, second or third star in the Michelin Guide. Because they no longer know why they are doing it. Or perhaps they know what it takes to go from two to three stars and feel that they don't have what it takes. Then maybe they would rather start a whole new restaurant. Because they no longer know why they are doing it. Or perhaps they know what it takes to go from two to three stars and feel that they don't have what it takes. Then maybe they would rather start a whole new restaurant to rediscover their passion. Their profession is very similar to what I do. It's about creating amazing experiences that will amaze people. And once you've come up with that fantastic dish, you have to make the same dish over and over and over and over and over again.
It feels as though Brits often have a bit more distance to their careers than Americans. David Bowie felt trapped by being an arena artist and started the rock band Tin Machine in 1989, which meant he got to play at Cirkus instead of Stockholm Stadium. It was as though he almost wanted to scare away his mainstream audience and start from scratch again. To be reminded of why he started. He even said in 1990 that it was the last time he would ever play his solo hits. Something he didn't stick to, of course, but he needed to feel and mean it at that moment.
Bowie was born in 1947, right? So he was 42 when he formed Tin Machine. That's about the same age I am now. And I've probably been going through a bit of a crisis these past few years. Five years ago, it was super important for me to know exactly what we were going to do with Ghost. We were moving forward, and I had a whole list of things we were going to accomplish. I still have goals I want to achieve and things I want to accomplish with Ghost. But I also know that I can't do it unless I have the same passion I had when I joined the project.
“Children of Los Angeles!
Thank you all for making the last night of the Skeletour a truly memorable experience that will live in our hearts forever.
Til we meet again…
Be kind to each other
/ A Nameless Ghoul”
📷 Ryan Chang
