Host (Me): Hello and welcome back to “Indie Then & Now.” Today we are lucky to have well-known indie authors, Thomas Frank, Alissa Quart, Nitsuh Abebe, Michael Azzerad, and Kaya Oakes, talk about their views on the evolution of the indie culture from its origin to now. Everyone please give a warm round of applause for these folks!
*Audience burst into simultaneous applause*
*Authors all express their thanks for being on today’s show*
Host (Me): So Michael, starting off with the one of earliest phases of the indie culture, would you care to give us a general idea of the information you have acquired from this time period and incorporated in your piece “Our Band Could Be Your Life: Scenes from the American Rock Underground 1981-1991”?
*Camera views switch and focus on Michael Azzerad as he begins to speak*
Michael Azzerad: Certainly! Throughout the 1980s, the indie countercultural scene was entirely underground. This in shorts, meant that big labels were ignoring big talent in small bands. These bands were genuinely gifted artists who poured everything they had into their music, not because they wanted to gain fame and glamour, but because it truly meant something to them to and to those who listened it to. Many artists during this time were focused on being the next big hit, getting their band to the top, and acquiring as much wealth as they could. This mindset lead to music of lesser quality and substance than the underground bands. These underground bands were responsible for everything; promoting their own music, starting labels, making and distributing their records, and scheduling tours for themselves. How I see it, the lime light was shined on the wrong crowd; big labels and bands were blinded by wealth that they were unable to realize the raw talent flourishing around them.
Host (Me): Did this mentality and way of disregarding underground artists’ progress into the 90s? Thomas, maybe you would like to contribute to this section in particular.
*Camera zooms out capturing both the host and Thomas Frank who contemplates the questions*
Thomas Frank: Well at this time the countercultural idea was embracing diversity amongst individuals and their lifestyles; living with the mindset of “whenever we see a rule, we must break it.” They started to care even less about what others thought of them, their music, their culture, and overall appearance and behavior. In 1991, a major change in the media viewpoint was made evident through the release of Nirvanas album, which had defined all odds by going mainstream. Following this bands rapid expansion, corporate America greedily jumped onto the “rock scene” bandwagon by endorsing chaos, anarchy, and turmoil. This bothered me greatly, because the original concept behind the rebel movement was tarnished and warped into yet another form of commercial propaganda.
Kaya Oakes: Thomas is right, in the race to incorporate the “indie” style company’s began to twist this counterculture idea into their own image. This was further expedited through the use of social media and the internet as a whole. With the help of online sources it became easier to distribute and advertise indie merchandise which caused company such as Urban Outfitters profits to increase at a tremendous rate. Society was practically being smothered by the idea of being indie.
Nitsuh Abebe: I second both Thomas and Kaya. Everything the true indie culture had stood for had been manipulated into a corporate marketing tactic. The 2000s version of indie was nothing but fluff. The indie music aspect was also affected and lacked authenticity. There was no truth or substance behind any of it. Indie at this point was dead. Everything endorsed as “indie” was merely a thoughtless construction from an industrial brand or company.
Alissa Quart: Actually I can’t say I completely agree with you all. You’re all talking about what’s gone mainstream and has been absorbed by the media and corporate America. You’re only acknowledging what the media wants you to see. While on the contrary, there are still many rebels who are continuing to hold their own movements. These individuals are still abiding by their own rules and disregarding the standards the society around them are subconsciously following.
Host (Me): That’s a very curious point you bring up Alissa! Could any of you tell us what the remaining indie crowd today has income with those of the 80s and 90s?
Michael Azzerad: For starters they truly believed that going mainstream would compromise the authenticity of their values and culture. They took pride in their countercultural beliefs and ideals. To them if the products and music they were putting out were not legitimate representations of how they felt it wasn’t worth it. As I mentioned before, individuals associated with the original countercultural movement ever genuinely passionate and devoted to their work. For example, the underground bands despite not being supported by big labels they were not deterred from single-handily promoting their own music. The same can be said for the remaining countercultural individuals today. They don’t mind being under the radar as long as their work maintain the significance they want it to. They don’t need fame or recognition because they still receive self-gratification from their efforts.
Thomas Frank: Exactly! Michael touched on a very good argument. These two groups, though present in two different decades are both driven by the same desire for individuality. These groups refuse to conform to the rules and expectations of the media, big businesses, and society as a whole. This is also what separates the real and fake indie followers. The fake ones do what their told or what their shown to be “indie.” The real ones do what they want which makes their actions all the more sincere.
Host (Me): Do these remaining countercultural individuals foreshadow a hopeful revival of the true indie culture?
Kaya Oakes: The idea of being “indie” has spread so rapidly cross America by both history itself, as well as through continuous influences today. However, with that being said the description of the indie culture has been changed so drastically over the past 20 years that the true meaning has been distorted. It is to almost be accepted that indie may not be able to completely revert back to its original roots, but instead remain a common affiliate to being trendy, fashionable, unique, and free spirited.
Thomas Frank: Kaya is right, there is too much potential behind the idea of indie and what it has been built up to represent. One thing that can be said for the future indie culture is that eventually the indie we once knew will be engulfed by the falsely constructed, mainstream version that the media is putting out to its consumers. Although, those remaining from the counterculture will not give up their devotion to true indie beliefs and lifestyles, which will only further fuel their efforts to preserve the little that is left of their culture.
Alissa Quart: Well actually I believe there may be some hope for the indie culture. The individuals of the counterculture, or outsiders they may be called, will most definitely keep promoting their lifestyle and choices whether or not they actually go mainstream. Their primary goal is sustain the foundation in which the indie values were built upon. For this reason they will not let their actions be discouraged or measured based on the level of attention they draw to themselves and their movements.
Host (Me): Those are some excellent outlooks on the future that lies ahead for the indie culture and the people who still stand firmly behind its authenticity. I appreciate being able to hear all of your opinions and thoughts on this matter and look forward to seeing what is yet to take place. Thank you all for joining us on the show today!
*Michael, Thomas, Alissa, Kaya, and Nitsuh all express their appreciation for being on the show*
Host (Me): Thank you also to the viewers that have toned in today for this week’s segment on the evolution of the indie scene/ countercultural movement. That’s all the time that we have today and we will see you next week on “Indie Then & Now”, I’m your host Toni Contini and I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day.