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“How would they have turned the spinoff around?”

By changing the showrunner. At the very least, changing the title, the billing, the way it was marketed as if Carol was secondary to Daryl. Fans were telling AMC they wanted those things, including a different showrunner.

“What would have made the existing spinoff watchable to you? Daryl and Carol in the same scenes? No shipbaiting? Less offensive portrayal of other cultures?”

All of the above.

The French arc had already done significant damage to both characters and to their relationship with each other, and the show was in rapid-cycle production, so S4 had already been broken by the time viewers were watching S3. It was much too late to course correct. Sure, it would’ve been nice to have an inclusive title, equal billing and a fair marketing campaign, but it’s my professional opinion that a different showrunner would’ve had an insurmountable problem.

Joint story arcs for the characters, cultural sensitivity and lack of shipbaiting wouldn’t have been enough to get good ratings. Maybe diehard fans would have found it more palatable to watch, but it wouldn’t have brought new viewers. The showrunner would’ve had to reconfigure the Spanish arc midway through, so the show would still have had all of Zabel’s setup, even if the outcome of the main storyline would change.

Repairing Caryl’s relationship and explaining away inconsistencies in characterization and plot holes aren’t small tasks, especially not when the previous showrunner has willfully torpedoed everything the flagship show built. Six to eight episodes isn’t enough for an expansive plot—and you have to service the story engine—so that leaves very little screentime for reconstructing badly damaged emotional arcs.

The show would’ve been a mess, even with a great writer after three seasons of Zabel. Maybe it’d’ve been possible to salvage something watchable if AMC had fired him before S3 went into pre-production, but the production cycle was too fast for them to get viewer reactions and take action. There was enough noise, far enough in advance for AMC to bring Carol and Melissa back, but not to fix the show beyond that.

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I think I read some days ago somewhere on X that AMC negotiated with NR to bring him back as Daryl Dixon but nothing specific was said and I don't think it came from a reliable source. So I don't know if it's true...

I addressed this here and here.

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Is it likely that somewhere there exists a background for Carol and Daryl and their pre-apocalypse lives? We know very little about Carol, but Daryl has some dialogue that clues us in. For example, the fact that he was a kid and Merle wasn’t living at home when their mom died, and the fact that Merle was in juvie when Daryl got lost in the woods. So, I was wondering whether, when they write stuff like that, if there actually is a timeline of when key events happened in his life and things like that?

There should be. Normally, there's a 'show bible' which contains backstories on the major characters and documentation is kept for continuity. But, as you can see from DD, their team ignores everything from the flagship show and make it up as they go along.

The flagship show under Gimple didn't seem to care about anyone other than Rick, Eugene and to a lesser degree, Negan, so I don't know that TWDU has any kind of dossier. Further to that point, the discussion in the writers' room when they broke "Find Me" reveals that Carol's backstory is an unknown entity, even to them. They had no idea of how she grew up or her family dynamic, so they had to discuss the basics of a character who'd been on the show for nine seasons.

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What you say about AMC wanting to make international TWD shows with local production companies makes me feel like AMC are going to drag TWD franchise along with them like an empty tin can on a long, fraying string. It feels like they can’t make TWDU turn a profit for them anymore because they aren’t capable of/willing to invest in good writing. But they also won’t give it up to anyone who can do that. So, they’re just going to hang on to it indefinitely, squeezing minimum profit and minimum audience engagement from it.

So, if our best hopes are with a different studio taking over, does that mean endless waiting and it probably never happening? I don’t really know what to hope for now.

I'm limited in what I can and cannot say about this show, but it's my belief that a different studio would serve the story better. That's not to say that AMC couldn't make it—McDermott wants to work with this showrunner on original content and the studio needs someone who can plot. They're hoping The Audacity will find an audience in S2, but that's pure desperation talking.

AMC's decline isn't like watching grass grow or paint dry, if that's what you're asking. They need to invest in good writing, whether it's Caryl or something else.

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I’m wondering why they chose Carol for the Upfront display, rather than Maggie (or Negan)? Since Dead City is the only active TWD show.

That show isn't an AMC success story (unlike Breaking Bad) and neither of those characters resonate with the wider general audience.

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Love the idea that Norman wasn’t invited to the Upfront while Melissa was. I’d like to hope that he’d get the message that what he’s done to the franchise, the character, the story, the audience, and to professional relationships has not been well received. I’d like to hope that it helps him see that Melissa deserves better than how she’s been treated by him, their colleagues, and the studio. But unfortunately, I think that’s putting too much faith in him. At the very least, I hope it brings him some humility and I hope it makes Melissa feel more respected.

Also love that Melissa was on the screen with Lestat and Breaking Bad. It’s incredibly telling. But I still have a hard time understanding why they’re doing this now and not last year when it really was their last chance to turn the spinoff around. Last year, it felt like AMC was deliberately ignoring what we all knew (and told them) they needed to do. It felt like they were determined to sink the show. So, if they weren’t listening then, why are they listening now?

How would they have turned the spinoff around? Zabel can't write and you'd've still had the same team of EPs. I don't know what fans told AMC that the creative team needed to change about the show, but I don't see any meaningful way in which the quality would've improved no matter what. They made an atrocious mess of characterization and backstory, and there would also still have been Ben Davis' incomprehensible notes to decipher.

What would have made the existing spinoff watchable to you? Daryl and Carol in the same scenes? No shipbaiting? Less offensive portrayal of other cultures?

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Wait so Kristen Dolan is the one who is giving instructions for AMC to target a young male audience?

I’m not the anon who asked about an email campaign. I don’t know what that is. But I saw that you said the decision to target a young male audience is coming from higher up than Dan McDermott. So, Kristen Dolan?

It reflects the stance of the larger Dolan family conglomerate, but this specific decision predates Kristin's tenure as CEO.

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"McDermott is still in conversation* with the showrunner"

Confused what this means. Couldn't Norman tell AMC NO, I won't do a spinoff that makes them a couple? He doesn't have to agree to do the spinoff claimed to still be in conversation.

And how long do these conversations last? (I read what you said a conversation could entail) but it seems like this conversation is a lot further in discussion if there is a show runner involved.

Wouldn't a conversation just end if there was no real interest by one of the actors? Because I have a hard time believing Norman would ever do a Carol spinoff since it's clear by now the days of him running the show are over. His ego can't handle doing another show where he doesn't have control. I mean he pretty much ran Gimple during the original TWD. Norman just wasn't as pissy as he is in 2026.

Last question, Do you think Norman blames Melissa for the spinoff being a failure? He still got to do it his way. Does he seriously not think any of the blame is on him? What planet does he live on?

Of course Norman could say ‘no,’ but as I’m sure you’ve noticed, there’s been no announcements that he’s signed on to lead some other show or that he’s headlining a feature. He doesn’t even do guest arcs on any shows, like how you see Jon Bernthal pop up everywhere. Norman gets small parts in big studio productions through connections (friend of a friend, etc.) or he does indies which then has to find distribution... He has the Death Stranding games, but that’s more niche/cult and also, a video game. Norman is getting visibly too old, among other things, to be competitive against other male talent auditioning for TV and he can’t open a box office, so eventually, it becomes a question of does he want to work?

Fans always claim this, but Norman did not run Gimple. He wasn’t an EP or even the lead of the show and regardless, all EPs sort in under the showrunner. I know someone is going to jump into an ask and tell me that Norman said something in some interview somewhere, but actors inflate their own importance. Do any of you really think Norman would’ve spent a season doing pretty much nothing but grunt, if he’d been in charge? Gimple didn’t want Daryl’s popularity to overtake the show and Norman desperately wants to be the star—they did not have a common agenda. And yes, Gimple would also have thrown Norman a bone in interviews because it’s what you do when you have an insecure actor with a big ego.

Whether Norman would refuse to join the cast is actually irrelevant to the Carol-focused show getting greenlit. McDermott is looking for something that can branch out to launch other TWDU options for AMC.

Finally, yes, Norman does blame everybody that's not him for his show’s failure and he holds Melissa responsible for its poor viewer reception.

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You said McDermott would be happy if season 4 was dead. Why do you think that? I know the show is a mess but did something happen we don't know about? Or did something happen you know about and can't tell us? Wink Wink

I said that McDermott would be happy if people forgot the show existed. I'm hoping against hope that it won’t air and further diminish the IP, but AMC makes short-sighted decisions, such as allowing Norman to turn the show into a vanity project in the first place. I don't know if they even have something to put in its time slot. Mayfair Witches?

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Is McDermtt good or bad for Caryl fans hoping for a satisfying Caryl spinoff

He understands the value that Melissa could add, especially in an executive position, but his priority is the longevity and profitability of the franchise. His lens isn't that of a storyteller. But, if he were to give Melissa greater creative control over a show, she would champion the characters and their fans.

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Is it me or is the silence deafening when it comes to the lack of conversation about the Daryl and Carol spinoff? (Season 3 was all over the net for 6 months leading up to it)

Do you think there is a reason Norman didn't show up to Global AMC media thing? And last year, there was this photo with actor who plays negan, his wife, Norman and Melissa and it looked really forced. No one even bothered to talk to Melissa this year. There were a bunch of the maggie actress, Negan actor and his annoying wife.

And just so you know, 2 days after that media sommet there was a article about Norman and his wife attending some event in NY. Rumor is that Norman pays people to write articles about him and this was done on purpose.

Last question (and if possible can you give me your opinion on each of my paragraphs? Thanks if you can) Do you think maybe Melissa showing up to that media global thing was her way of sending the message, You can't push me out? Because I have a really bad feeling about season 4 of the Carol/Daryl spinoff. And it is really suspect that Norman chose to not show up for that AMC global thing (sorry not sure of the real name) It just seems really suspicious like maybe he was avoiding Melissa, or AMC. I'm hoping he was told he's done making any decision about Daryl and he was pissed and didn't show up. It was really weird 2 days later People had an article on him about being in NY

Is it me or is the silence deafening when it comes to the lack of conversation about the Daryl and Carol spinoff?

It’s not really a Daryl and Carol spinoff, is it? It’s more The Norman Show, but yeah no, it’s not just you. There’s no reason to promote it.

Do you think there is a reason Norman didn't show up to Global AMC media thing?

I assume you mean AMC Upfront and yes, of course there’s a reason why he wasn’t there.

No one even bothered to talk to Melissa this year. There were a bunch of the maggie actress, Negan actor and his annoying wife.

Have you considered that it could be Melissa’s choice? Her relationship with JDM hasn’t been the best since he publicly lied about her “needing a break” and at one point, his wife told everyone on twitter that she’s a Bethyler (before she backtracked at her husband’s insistence). Nobody needs that kind of energy in their life.

Rumor is that Norman pays people to write articles about him and this was done on purpose.

Some actors use every tool at their disposal to stay visible.

Do you think maybe Melissa showing up to that media global thing was her way of sending the message, You can't push me out?

Melissa was at the Upfronts by invite; McDermott wanted her there. Carol’s picture was up on the big display during McDermott’s presentation, alongside Lestat (The Vampire Lestat) and Walt and Jesse (Breaking Bad).

It’s an event for advertisers/investors and Dead City is still an active show, which is why the leads were present and JDM’s “annoying wife” hosts some sort of reality show at AMC. (Probably as part of JDM’s deal with them, but...) There’s no one looking to buy ad spots on a canceled show that promotes human trafficking and terrorism as something normal people engage in, so there was no reason for Norman to be there.

[I]t is really suspect that Norman chose to not show up for that AMC global thing

Why do you assume his absence was Norman’s choice? Obviously, he’s pissy that his show got canned and this event is literally about convincing people to part with large sums of money. You need a filter to schmooze on behalf of a big company, especially when most of their business partners are looking to project wholesomeness to their customers. Someone with a grudge isn’t trustworthy.

[M]aybe he was avoiding Melissa, or AMC.

It’s not like Norman to waste an opportunity to promote himself and Melissa has legitimate reasons not to want to see him after everything he’s put her through.

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James Dolan runs AMC. His ex wife is the person in charge. I'm so confused as to who actually makes the decisions. If we wanted to start an email campaign for Carol, who would we send it to? (Not saying we do but if we did) Thanks

The Dolan family (James being the head) is the majority owner of the company. He's vile not actively involved in what happens at the network. His ex-wife is the CEO, but she's not part of the day-to-day running of the studio.

Dan McDermott is the president of AMC Studios. Ben Davis is the head of scripted programming and there are two SVPs, Josh Sizer (Dead City) and Ben Haigh (Dark Winds, Interview w/ the Vampire) who oversee the production of individual shows.

Ben D and Josh are horrible, but they also don't have enough power to make big decisions. (Just enough to ruin shows.) It's McDermott and Kristin Dolan that you'd need to persuade.

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Which studio would you prefer caryl to be licensed/produced by? I’ve been seeing the decline of a lot of previously good tv shows on other networks like HBO and Netflix, as well as AMC, so I don’t know where I’d put my faith now. Apple TV? Is that likely?

Sorry I don’t know the difference between a studio and a network.

A TV show is produced by two entities, a studio and a production company, so the quality depends on the people involved on either side of it. There’s a supervising exec (and potentially that person’s boss) on the studio side and exactly who that is varies from show to show. Then there’s the production company which may be the showrunner and their producing partner’s shingle, but it could also just be a straight-up producer who finds funding for the project.

So, in short, the individual BTS players matter to the quality of the show more so than the studio itself. If the studio has a streaming platform or is also a network, the show obviously has to fit their programming. For example, AMC’s slate is horror, so they wouldn’t have shows like The Pitt or Bridgerton.

A studio is where a TV show is made while a network broadcasts to the consumer: AMC Studios vs. AMC (and the streaming platform, AMC+). I know I’ve shorthanded to calling both ‘AMC,’ which makes it confusing, but they’re functionally separate entities. A network is, like I said, a broadcast company like ABC and NBC, or basic cable like Bravo, TLC... AMC and premium cable is something like HBO. In contrast, Netflix, Amazon and Apple TV are streaming platforms.

Apple does smaller, more contained horror shows. Pluribus, Widow’s Bay, Severance are all cheaper and less logistically challenging to produce than TWD, which used plenty of special effects (FX) and stunts, and had a large crew and cast. Obviously, the first few seasons weren’t like that, but it’s what the brand has evolved into. So, Apple most likely wouldn't want a TWDU show because it doesn't fit into their financial model.

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How long could it take for us to see something positive if AMC have to sell or license producing rights?

There was some news recently about AMC looking to sell some of their licensing rights I think? Kristen Dolan said they were looking for partners, and apparently big players like Netflix, HBO and Amazon were interested. But she was very sure to say that AMC still wanted to keep TWDU and only wanted partners, or something like that? Is that all relevant to this?

It was a press release about streaming/distribution rights because it talked about wanting non-exclusive partnerships. AMC needs the revenue from streaming on other platforms and in areas they don’t have a foothold. It was the usual PR speak of “major players” being interested, but no names were named, which means it's mostly smoke and mirrors. It’s an effort to appear financially stable to the shareholders, but yes, it’s relevant to what I was talking about because it’s a sign that the company isn’t doing well.

I think they are looking for international studios/networks to partner with them in producing local versions of TWD. It would be a low-risk way for AMC to get funds if they license TWDU to a partner in, let’s say, Portugal who’ll bear the cost of production. AMC would be paid for the rights, would own and have creative control of the IP, and take a share of the profits.

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Oh how I wish we could see those drafts and outlines if it never makes it past “in conversation.” And how I wish we could see Angela Kang’s original spinoff scripts.

I don’t think there are any scripts for Angela’s spinoff. She didn’t pitch the show and was busy with S11 production, so there’s probably just a treatment for the season. Possibly an outline for the pilot. If the studio owns the scripts (i.e. they’ve actually paid the writer) for a show that died in development, the likelihood of seeing any scripts/outlines, etc. is unfortunately very low.

Personally, I hope AMC has to sell or license producing rights. AMC doesn’t have global reach; they need partners for distribution and unlike some of the other fandom factions, Caryl fans are worldwide, not predominantly American. The show would be more accessible to its target audience (and thus do better) if it was produced by a studio that has an international platform.

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How big of a stumbling block are we talking about? Are people over there still working to bring it forward?

Like I said, the big issue is the corporate misogyny at AMC, but McDermott is still in conversation* with the showrunner.

* A season’s worth of outlines and early drafts of at least a few episodes exist.

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SDCC Blog write that TWD: Dead City and The Vampire Lestat will appear at the 2026 SDCC. Making their debut in Hall H. Undead Walking article, AMC confirmed that TWD Daryl Dixon will not appear. Telling or no?

Yes, very. I think McDermott would be happier if people forgot that show exists.