anti Talia rant incoming, specifically about the topic of Talia being a abuser. Very all over the place, ignore if you must.
To reiterate what you've said in your "Talia sexually abused Jason" posts, It's so completely a gender thing. They infantilize Talia to such a degree to minimise her actions (and blame her actions on another characters such as Ra's or Bruce) and act like Jason, a literal teenager (who I always though was younger than 17 when he was resurrected), has the agency of a fully grown adult. This is such a dirty tactic because they're basically erasing Jason's victim status and rewriting Talia to be either a victim or a saviour depending on their mood.
Even if ages weren't a problem (even through they are), Talia was his captor and had been isolating him while purposely lying about/omitting important details (Bruce did try to avenge Jason...promise) that would have lead to Jason making radically different decisions and seeing Talia in a different light. There is no way that anyone can. in good faith, say that Jason was fully capable to firstly consent to sleeping with Talia or secondly was on the same level of power that Talia had in their relationship. (and they wonder why they get called rape apologists)
Jason was a vulnerable child and Talia was an abuser who was in a position of power over him who decided to take advantage of him. End of story. Nothing more.
It reminds me of every single last post where Talia is posited as the victim/passive one of any situation (someone tried to act like Bruce slept with her when she was nineteen or something despite the comic they were referencing wasn't canonical since it was released *wink wink* and her being age being revealed to be 150 during the Lazarus Affair which is also non-canonical now due to the Crisis event) and that Bruce held all the power in their relationship ignoring that fact that she: lied to him on multiple occasions, withheld information, played both sides, ignored/overstepped boundaries etc. Or they act like the reason the relationship fell apart was due to Bruce's wrongdoings. Not that Talia would always side with a terrorist organisation that obviously disagreed with Bruce's morals.
Another thing that pisses me off in relation to Brutalia (I know Jason's your favorite guy, but Bruce's mine so a lot of Bruce from here on out) is just how they have no self awareness when posting "cute" moments about them. No the moment between them in No Man's Land wasn't cute, no that moment wasn't cute either. Like the whole marriage between them was creepy. I'm tried of downplaying it to avoid annoyed fans and I'm tried of them being oblivious to it.
She drugged him, kidnapped him, held him on a boat and married him without his consent (all while ignoring his rebukes when he came to). That is Grade A creep behavior. It wasn't cute, romantic or something people should be posted acting like it's a step closer to Brutalia being canon. Are my modern sensibilities strong, yes, (and I absolutely understand that "innocent" things can age badly) but that doesn't mean it wasn't creepy.
Then the whole Bane debacle *slaps face*. I hate it when someone is like "Well, Talia was abused by Bane, meaning that what happened to Bruce/Jason doesn't matter because she'd never do that in the first place cause she's the only victim". (Never mind she abused Bruce before Bane happened) That isn't a point. Anyone, past victim or past abuser, can be abused. There's no rule book dictating how can or cannot abuse.
Something else which is funny to me is that for no other character, except Poison Ivy and Harley, will stans do Simone Biles mental gymnastics for their character. Like I do remember people saying Doctor Light was character assassinated but no one every accused people that mentioned the fact that he was a serial rapist of ableism or hatred of abused characters or something stupid. I never see Slade stans come out of the woodworks to accuse Tara of seducing him or consenting to her abuse. I never see anyone try to educate fandom on the history of Deathstroke to try and act like it was such a horrible thing they made a mercenary who on multiple occasions tried to kill teenagers, forced Tara to be a double agent, abused his kids and Cass (I'm pretty sure) also be a child molester.
Like did people forget that Talia was a part of a eco terrorist organisation that had multiple plans to cull most of the Earth??? What's not clicking? Why is the idea of sexual abuse soo out there for her, it's not her worst crime by a long-shot. It's that fucking meme. Y'all can excuse genocide but you draw the line at rape???
*sigh* sorry for this long-ass brain vomit.
Please rant away, we've all got to at times.
And yeah, Jason may be my main fav in the BatFam but unlike a lot of Jason fans I love Bruce, I hate the bad writing that's circled both Jason and Bruce basically since UTRH (it set up something fantastic... and then Bruce "died" and we got Ginger Jason which... less said about that the better).
As for Jason's age if memory serves me correctly he was 15 when he was properly resurrected and dug out hus grave but closer to 17 when she throws him in the Lazarus Pit cause he spends a close to a year on Gotham Streets(how'd he survive, don't know, comic logic) and at least a year being cared for by Talia before Ra's tells her to stop playing nursemaid. But I could be wrong, regardless he was definitely under 18 and regardless as you point out the power dynamic makes the ages irrelevant anyway, there's no version of this story where he can reasonably consent because he can't reasonably say no. Coupled with the fact she does in fact fill Jason's mind with all this bullshit about how Bruce didn't seem to care enough to avenge him when Bruce thought the Joker was dead after the UN incident and was basically suicide for months after that until Tim came along (and even then, he was never really the same after Jason's death).
Talia is absolutely just as much an abuser of Bruce as she is Jason, I bring Jason up more because he's my fav and also it is a bit more generally known by fans than ALL the shit she did to Bruce throughout the years so it's easier to point to it when trying to articulate my overall issues with Talia.
Like Talia is an abuser of men, and that predates her supposed "character assassination" and has always been a thinly veiled part of her character. On top of all that she is a literal terrorist, and whether they like it or not the very environment that is fostered at the League would result in her always been at the very best a mediocre mother. Now, yes, Ra's is also an abuser, but being a victim of abuse does not allow someone to then become just as abusive. Ra's is not entirely responsible for Talia's actions. She's a grown woman, in many ways more capable than her father, she can say no. Likewise, the Bane shit, as you say, happened after a lot of her abusive behaviour towards Bruce, and still doesn't justify HER abusive actions. Talia can be both a victim and a victimiser.
And yeah, Deathstroke fans will admit they don't like the Tara stuff, they'll often choose to ignore it, but they won't blame the underage girl for it. I don't mind Slade myself, don't love him, don't hate him. His fans are a lot less obnoxious that some others I've met so they don't make me hate him the way some other fans do with their favs.
It really is simple if Talia was a man and Bruce/Jason were women no one would argue it was abuse. And the single worst thing for me is that fans will depict her as some deep love of Bruce's life when I'd argue a lot of his other love interests, not just Selina, are all much better written with more chemistry with Bruce and he doesn't have to be wildly OOC to justify the relationship. OR they'll depict her as a surrogate mother figure for Jason when she literally raped him. Like Jason absolutely needs a surrogate mother figure, one that doesn't take advantage of him, but like... he could go talk to Diana, or Dinah, or Selina, or almost every other female Bruce has ever spoken to because they are all significantly better options than Talia.
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