ik like nothing about the world cup (watching sports is boring imo) but saw this person name butterscotchbrew on yt where they redrew it so thought id give it a shot (og image below)
The state of TADC and my feelings towards it has taken a turn I honestly wouldn’t have ever expected. To a show I loved, flaws and all, and something I was willing to buy multiple merchandising for (hell I added gangle to my 3DS Tomodachi life game) to a show that I have extremely conflicting, mostly negative feelings for.
In all honesty, I just feel sad. The past few months as a black TADC fan has been the most unpleasant and upsetting things I have had to witness. When the controversy around the infamous “Nega” stream came up, I was initially disappointed but pretty suspicious. Dragging up a 7 year old clip because you’re angry that the show was put to film felt incredibly nasty to me, I genuinely do hate when people weaponize racism for the sake of fandom discourse.
However, it did happen. And I wanted to see how the responses would play out, because it was at worse just a tasteless joke (which still feeds into racist idealogy, don’t get me wrong). The VAs had delivered a solid enough apology for me to get over, but Goose’s response was honestly kind of heartbreaking for me. Once again a show I feel deeply attached to has a creator who treats racism as either a joke or beneath them. She had so much to say about shipping discourse but when it came to racism. Nothing.
Her only “response” was to condemn “genuine” racism, as if her own racism was somehow above criticism simply because she saw it as a joke. I don’t hate Gooseworx nor do I approve of the people harassing her, like sending her death threats or flat out admitting they want to bully her until she k*lls herself. I find that deeply disgusting and deplorable. However, I can’t say I like her either. I feel disappointed in her. I feel frustrated.
Once again a show that claims to push diversity and “complex” characters is helmed by someone who views racism and misogyny as something comedic. I’ve sold off a lot of my merch and scrapped several drawings I had planned to do after the finale.
I just feel… sad. Like I can’t act like I don’t feel this way, it sucks and it’s disappointing. Indie animation is viewed as morally superior to those “icky” Hollywood movies. But what exactly is so different about if we still enable workplace abuse and bullying? Blacklisting and harassment? Or in this case, treating racism and misogyny as something to make a mockery of and cultivate a fandom that has grown hostile to black people. People think I’m an “indie animation hater” because I don’t turn a blind eye to these issues and want things to improve and get better, god forbid I want the art form that I love to not treat me or my identity like a punching bag! To not treat women as either plot fodder or objects for fans to jerk off to.
Regardless though, I didn’t want my feelings around the controversy to dictate my feelings on the show. Thankfully the finale is kind of terrible so I don’t have to feel bad about it.
So first of all, what the hell is this pacing? I know TADC isn't perfect, but it had some pretty solid pacing that made episodes a breeze to watch. This episode was so disjointed. It felt like the plot was starting and stopping so many times, like we needed to hit the Key Ponts but it didn't do a good job leading to those points.
Jax is right that it's kind of absurd that nobody is mad at Kinger. But more in a narrative sense. Kinger nearly fucked them and just casually admits that he helped create Caine and turned them into AIs. Why can't characters have complex feelings.
The audacity for Pomni to tell Ragatha she's her closest friend and hug her. If Kinger had not intervened during episode 6, Ragatha absolutely would have abstracted, meanwhile Pomni has been palling around with her abuser and tried to shut Ragatha up when she finally stood up for herself. I would've been pissed off if I was Ragatha.
The dialogue where Kinger tells Pomni that nothing is her fault is giving me Gameoverse flashbacks. Whats with characters telling someone that something isn't their fault. I think it's okay to acknowledge Pomni made some mistakes but had good intentions.
Okay so, one of the few things I heard was that Jax abstracts off screen and very early on. A ton of people were pissed off about that but without context I was honestly okay with it. Suicide is just something that comes out of nowhere for a lot of people, and also, why on earth would you want a show that has a majority underaged audience to watch a character slowly kill themselves?
HOWEVER, actually seeing it for myself. Wow! that really fucking blows. It's not really the off screen nature of the scene that bothers me it's just that it literally happens because Pomni needs to be hit with the stupid stick. Pomni, you understand that while Jax is a piece of shit she is clearly very mentally ill and needs careful surveillance. But all of a sudden she's "surprised" that Jax would spiral this hard?? As if she hasn't seen multiple times that when Jax is mentally at his worst he starts pushing people away?? It's so anti climactic and tasteless for Jax's character, and I don't even LIKE Jax
That scene with Gangle was fucking awful. I did hear discussions around it (one of the few inescapable things that were leaked) but I didn't want to judge the scene until I saw it for itself. Why the hell was it played off so comedically? You could have had a further exploration of Jax's unhealthy attachment to Gangle, actually take the abuse seriously for once? But no, its a very unpleasant sexual harassment gag that is overly long for the sake of the movie theater audience to laugh at another scene where the local misogynist mistreats a woman. The wilder part is that it could work as a comedic scene to poke fun at Jax's narcissism, but its clearly just another scene made at Gangle's expense.
This isn't really a criticism but with all the depictions of Jax, I'm shocked that there wasn't an "angry" Jax? you know that one ugly personality trait of hers that is repeatedly brought up as a problem for her?
I was gonna make a comment that for the "comedy relief" character Jax was always the least funniest to me but lowkey I laughed my ass off when all 3 Jax's screamed "shut up"
I do not like that "real Jax" nonsense. This idea that all the "fake" Jax's aren't authentic is so stupid to me. Misogyny and abuse is not something you can just wave away by saying they're "fake" characteristics.
I think TADC has some great character designs but I don't like Ribbit's lanky design
I actually really like Jax and Ribbit's conversation. The only problem is that this entire episode (and the show itself) has been constant character exposition. Also, Ribbit's response is kind of horrible? And Ribbit herself is extremely boring and disappointing. I understand the idea is that Ribbit is trying to comfort Jax after confessing to years of abuse and possibly killing his mother but this is what I mean by "nobody in this show is allowed to react like a person". I would have loved maybe a brief scene where Ribbit looks a bit shocked/horrified before comforting Jax. THIS is the queer niche show that was so complex you need """media literacy""" to understand it? another female character who is extremely comforting and overly forgiving with no interesting flaws of her own? Wow, what a complex character that the normies can't understand
I saw some criticisms about how Jax being transfem was "too subtle" to read but... I don't know. It felt very obvious to me? I also don't see it as a "failure" of trans representation for a creator to approach trans representation through more subtle dialogue (well subtle for TADC) dialogue.
So that's it? That's Jax's turn to being a malicious bully? She confesses, she feels embarrassed, she spirals and tries to cut Ribbit out of her life and then she just kind
So nobody talked to Ribbit?? Nobody??? Not even Kaufmo, who is clearly a very close friend of hers????? And fucking hilarious that once again a female character loudly chews him out and she immediately apologizes because we really need to emphasize how mean Jax is by making every other woman completely unwilling to harbor any sort of anger towards her for more than 2 seconds.
WHY DOES EVERYONE JUST. WATCH. NOBODY INTERVENES. WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY INTERVENE. Are they intimidated by Jax? JAX????????
I'm sorry, I bust out laughing when they cut to Jax crying in a mirror. Grown woman abuses and terrorizes everyone around her until two of them kill themselves.
God forbid, GOD FORBID! Pomni develops any sort of negative reaction towards Jax's actions. I'm not asking her to condemn Jax but I need a response other than her mothering her. She just witnessed Jax doing the most despicable things she has ever done to TWO people and what is her response? Anger, confliction? No, IMMEDIATE COMFORT. What is the point of having "flawed" and "complex" characters if the cast around them is not allowed to react in any sort of way
I'm sorry but Jax's pathetic cry-session is giving me flashbacks to some pretty awful friends I had that would admit to doing terrible shit and then never really do any self improvement. I'd feel more pity for Jax if she was slowly getting better but kept falling back to past urges. but episode 6 onwards all she does is sulk and have another panic attack. So I feel nothing when she cries.
Pomni you just saw Jax repeatedly gaslight and abuse your "closest friend" how do you feel about that? Oh nothing? awesome.
I do appreciate that while
Doing an actual honest to god Jax fancam with a cover of "Isn't she lovely" (you know, a song about BLACK JOY) after revealing that Jax has done nothing but repeatedly abuse the people around her and pushed two people into suicide (and that's not even getting into the whole "NEGA" controversy) is so fucking tone deaf
....I think this episode turned me into an abstregedy hater. Which is a shame because UGH UGH UGH THEY'RE SO CUTE BUT THEY NEVER DO ANYTHING INTERESTING. They just walk away and comfort each other.
CAINE IS ALIVE--jk I knew that too. But uh. I didn't think he'd come back just like that.
The music in the finale is honestly fantastic, but the track during Caine's introspection is really something else.
9 episodes really wasn't enough for this show. I would have loved an episode dedicated to just Caine in the void while he figures out how to escape as well as some introspection
Nooooooooo nooooooo I do not like this. I understand that Caine was fused with that blue AI but why are we treating it like "good side/bad side" and why is the BLUE AI depicted as hateful and vengeful?????
I cannot wrap my head around the idea that a show that made me cry 3 times has a scene where a character spends 2 minutes on Facebook to stop being evil
I don't like the moon's speech. Caine should not expect forgiveness nor should he just wait until he receives it. Redemption is about atonement, not getting people to like you
I like how even Caine becomes a victim of "random female character who adores the morally problematic character for no justified reason"
Does anyone find it kind of ironic how a show about human connection, understanding and redemption and the importance of apologizing to the people you have hurt and understanding it will take time to forgive you had white animation fans screaming up and down that nobody should apologize for saying the n word. I really am trying to not think of the discourse while watching the show but seen Caine try to apologize for his actions for hurting the people around him gives me flashbacks to see black TADC fans on my FYP bawling their eyes out because they're too scared to watch the TADC movie in theaters because of how racist the fandom had become.
It's kind of funny how I wanted a Caine redemption and a Jax abstraction and both are so unsatisfying I feel nothing in the end.
Is the scene where the cast see their real life counterparts supposed to be heartwarming? Because this feels kind of bleak to me. Not only can you not escape but you get to watch the people you're based on live full and fulfilling lives. Honestly I think Severance captures this sort of scenario a lot better and in a way more interesting and nuanced fashion (because characters are allowed to have, gasp, complex feelings)
I'm sure the montage would would be way more heartwarming if we were actually allowed to see these characters have episodes instead of dedicated a majority of the screentime from episode 5 onwards to Jax.
Abstragedy sex would be more awesome if Gangle and Zooble were allowed to be anything than each other's personal therapist
WHAT. WAS THE POINT OF GUMMIGOO.
I ended up also making some lists of just random thoughts I had for various characters overall.
Gangle
Man. Gangle’s treatment is just depressing
The fact that two of the biggest indie shows right now are shows that treat abuse and the victim’s suffering as comedic is downright upsetting, as a survivor myself. You don’t get to have one or two scenes where it’s taken seriously only to go back to treating it like a joke.
I really like Gangle, but like Ragatha, it’s like the show is outright uncomfortable with really exploring her character. It has no idea what to do with its women when it’s not centered around Jax (which is more shocking considering Gangle actually had a very focused episode not revolving around him, only to abandon her character right after)
I just don’t understand why indie shows love exploring complex topics like abuse/genocide and having no empathy for the victims and/or treating it like a joke. “Let’s have one or two scenes where it’s taken seriously and the rest of the time it’s treated as a joke, ESPECIALLY in the merchandise and promo videos”. It honestly a breath of fresh air that Knights of Guinevere did not have some out of place joke about women being abused
People talk about how Jax should be used as representation for how not to write a complex character (and I agree) but I think Gangle should be seen as an example of how not to write an abuse victim. It’s so egregious it’s downright offensive to me.
Ragatha
Ragatha has literally done nothing wrong
We never had a Ragatha episode
Those Ragatha fans on reddit were completely in the right to complain about the show doing Ragatha's character a massive disservice
I don't like the later seasons of Steven Universe but those commenters are right that Ragatha would've been a much better character in Rebecca's hands
Zooble
What a shock that the most underdeveloped character is also the biggest Jax hater
Kinger
I dont agree with the criticisms that Kinger needed an arc, he just needed something more than being a therapist and a lore dump. People don't just love Iroh because he's wise, but also because he's funny and has great chemistry with a lot of characters. Kinger is not allowed to really develop any interesting relationship with the rest of the cast.
Would it not devastate Kinger to know that his counterpart has a family in the real world while his wife is literally dead and he can't have children with anyone? Oh no of course not, nobody is allowed to have negative feelings other than Jax, remember?
Caine
I do not accept episode 8-9 Caine as canon
Pomni
UGH. UGHHHH WHERE DO I EVEN BEGIN
Pomni was my favorite character of the entire series up until episode 5. Hell, I bought several figures and plushies of her character (that I sold off a year ago), I liked her so much. Unfortunately I do think she peaked in the pilot. Having this weird, uncomfortable, selfish female character who clearly feels guilt for her actions but not enough to apologize was honestly so refreshing. Yes please, give me complicated women I eat this up so much.
Around episode 2 and 4 unfortunately I realized we weren’t really going to get that. No, Pomni wasn’t going to have those character flaws… she wasn’t going to have anything actually. She’s just going to be a pretty dull character who is weirdly super male-centered and oddly callous towards women (but in a way that the show doesn’t read as a flaw like Jax’s misogyny). But I still didn’t hate her, I really liked her dynamic with Ragatha, even if I wished that episode 2 was about them and not that damn Alligator
Episodes 5 and 6 peaked my interest again because I honestly thought the show was returning to those character flaws I thought they were setting up in the pilot: her selfishness. To this day, I have no idea why fans defended her behavior in episode 5 or acted like Ragatha was behaving out of line. You have Pomni, someone who has seen Jax repeatedly abuse women and was abused herself by him, sit there and watch Jax insult Ragatha for a full minute while she does nothing. Ragatha finally calls out Jax and Pomni finally says something except it’s to tell her to calm down (this scene would have worked better for me if she told Ragatha and Jax to calm down) and Ragatha snaps at her. Man no offense, but Ragatha has every right to react the way she did. Imagine being abused all your life, being told you’re allowed to be angry and then being told to calm down while the person chastising you says nothing about your abuser. It was the first time I started side—eyeing Pomni and disliking her.
But I wanted to give the show the benefit of the doubt, I really did hope this was going to be a character flaw for her, getting attached to an abuser out of selfishness and a personal desire for entertainment, but that fell apart by episode 8 when I realized “oh, this isn’t a character flaw, I’m supposed to think her behavior is acceptable”
I initially liked Pomni’s behavior in episode 6 because she wasn’t a pushover. But what gets to me now is… wow Pomni is incredibly selfish huh? And weirdly callous? And not in a self aware way like the pilot, but in a way where I don’t think the writer realized how terrible she looks in that episode. Why are you asking someone you barely know “how would you feel if I killed myself?” What a bizarrely nasty and manipulative thing to say. And you attack HER for giving you an honest answer lmao?
I didn’t realize it till episode 8, but episode 6 should have been my clue in the approach to Pomni’s character. She basically suffers a similar problem as Stolas from Helluva Boss (though not nearly as bad, thankfully). The show seems to read Pomni as this kind, well meaning person who only wants the best for others, but in execution she’s selfish, emotionally manipulative and bizarrely indifferent to the abuse of women around her as long as SHE can get something out of Jax. If anything I’ve always found it odd that nobody says “hey Pomni, why are you so chummy with my abuser?” But this show hates interesting character conflict that isn’t initiated by Jax so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And then the audacity for the show to have Pomni tell Ragatha “you’re my closest friend” IS SHE? Because you seemed weirdly fond of ignoring her affection and condemning her emotions in favor of chasing after a rabbit who wants nothing to do with you.
“We all did bad things” is easily the worst line in the show and the statement that ruins Pomni’s character. First of all, what bad things? What did Zooble and Kinger even do that could be considered “bad”. Hell I don’t think Ragatha did anything wrong either, despite the show insisting she did. Second of all, this is quite literally abuse apology. This is the kind of shit your family member says to force you to stay in contact with your abuser. Such a bizarrely tone deaf and stupid line just to shut down a very valid complaint from Zooble.
Jax
The finale finally turned me into a Jax hater
Before that, I was pretty indifferent to her. I didn’t think she was funny, nor all too interesting. As soon as episode 2 happened and Jax had that incredibly on the nose shot of her pretending like she didn’t care about Kaufmo's death I thought “oh god not another one of these”. The "I'm a nasty nuisance to everyone but secretly i'm super damaged and hurt inside" character trope is so common it's become less subversive and more insufferable because their character arcs are almost always the same and are usually the creator's self insert.
But episodes 3-6 made me think otherwise. I actually think episodes 5 and 6 were the first time I was starting to like Jax. I still wasn’t the biggest fan of hers, she was still my second least favorite character, but it was less “man, you’re boring” to “hey, you know what? I kind of like you”. LOWKEY THOUGH, in retrospect episode 6 might have also been the beginning of the end because that’s when Jax takes a total character shift for the worse
I do agree that “Jax and Pomni were the main characters” was always kind of a nonsensical statement to me. Especially because… am I supposed to think Ragatha wasn’t? Was she not clearly a writing foil for Jax AND Pomni? Hell Jax was not that prominent until episode 5. And more importantly, what the fuck does Jax even add as a protagonist?? This is where Jax falls apart for me. Jax is not a dynamic character because nobody is allowed to be dynamic with her.
I complained about this on Bluesky but the problem with Jax’s character and the rest of the female characters (and Ribbit and Zooble) as a whole is that nobody in this show is allowed to be all that complicated except Jax (and Jax is hardly complicated at all!). Everyone has to be centered around his awfulness. Nobody is allowed to cause conflict or make bad decisions (that the narrative actually frames as bad) because it might make the audience think Jax isn’t that bad, and we have to make it abundantly clear that Jax is an irredeemable person. Jax has to drive the conflict, everyone has to hate Jax, there’s no other rivalries or backstories for anyone else except Jax. There wasn’t an interesting fall out from Jax hitting the button because if there wasn’t, the audience might start calling the characters just as bad as her. Imagine if Ragatha hit her, or Zooble started verbally tearing her to shreds? Imagine if Pomni finally gave up on her? Nope, we can’t have that. Everyone just has to get over it in the span of 3 minutes because we need to make Jax look bad for rejecting their boundless forgiveness lmao.
But at the same time, the narrative also… doesn’t want you to hate her THAT much? Jax abuses women constantly, but those women are oddly very caring and protective of him?? And can we talk about how the show depicts Jax’s abuse of Gangle? Because for the most part it’s entirely depicted as comedic. We get one brief line of dialogue from Gangle that she’s scared of Jax and then the show goes back to treating her abuse like a joke (side note, kind of crazy that Pomni just has no issue with helping Jax shoot his abuse victim, but this isn’t the Pomni section anymore so w/e).
Jax possibly killed her mother but don’t worry Ribbit is super reassuring and says the police didn’t come so she’s probably still alive (the police are famously great at handling domestic disputes). I don’t really agree with the take that TADC has cringy/bad dialogue, I think it’s very overly wordy and the “cringe” always felt more authentic to me than unintentional, but I will admit when Ribbit told Jax about how her mom is probably fine because the cops didn’t show up I audibly laughed. That unironically felt like a YIIK moment for me. Such an unnatural response because again, we need to make Jax look bad for having such a forgiving friend AND have someone who can absolve her of her issues
It’s honestly interesting comparing Jax to someone like Blitzo because they’re both the wrong approaches to handling “toxic” protagonists. Blitzo is honestly an incredibly insufferable character but for some reason the “flaws” the shows dig into are either not that big of a deal (by Hell standards) or literally not his fault. I do not give a shit that he ghosts people, and I think he’s perfectly in the right to resent someone who pushed him into coercive sex. Any time he does something “bad” in the past the show goes out of its way to flatten it as MUCH as possible. Caused a fire that killed his mother, disabled his best friend and caused his sister to resent him? Uh, not really. He just bumped into someone. Abandoned his friend and never apologized? Well it’s not his fault, THEY stopped him (for 20 years? Apparently). This show wants complex, messy characters but is afraid to let them do terrible things without waving it off as a joke or downplaying it aggressively.
Meanwhile Jax is awful. She is selfish, cruel and violent. Obviously due to fears and personal trauma, but at the same time the show seems genuinely afraid to let her face consequences. "oh but she killed herself" and everyone was busy crying and moping and she got to have an overly emotional cry scene with Pomni despite physically and verbally abusing her and several women (and somehow Pomni wasn't slightly disturbed by Jax's increasingly abusive behavior). And again, I'm not asking for these characters to wholeheartedly reject Jax, especially since thats literally what Jax wants, but it's like. it's not even a complicated issue for anyone. Pomni never second guesses her relationship with Jax, resents her, nothing. I get nothing interesting and I have to suffer through this.
And when I sat down and tried pick apart my issue with Jax I realized why I found her such a frustrating and insufferable character, but in a way I've never really seen before: Jax is written like a vent OC.
To be CLEAR this is not me making assumptions about Goose's personal life and trauma (I did follow her tumblr for a bit and i do remember her admitting that Jax and Caine were just her "dealing with her personal demons" but like, this is not me assuming Jax is exactly like her or that their past traumas are the same). What I'm saying, as someone who has made a vent OC and has seen multiple vent OCs is that Jax's writing is borderline identical to that archetype.
Jax is the messiest, most "complex", most unpleasant character who hurts everyone her. She hates herself and is severely depressed. But at the same time, somehow everyone is unnaturally protective of her. Jax's "consequences" is her own misery, rarely do any external factors take a role in her pain past episode 6. This is why I don't read her suicide as "consequences", what exactly is her narrative punishment here? Everyone was babying her and was somehow willing to overlook the abuse because "they're stuck here together" and nobody is allowed to deal with complex emotions. the most telling part for me is that not only does Jax STILL not express any apologetic remorse and simply talks down on herself but is still rewarded with a hug, but the show goes as far as to give her a fucking AMV. and I am trying my best not to be rude here, but those moments gave me this vibe of like "oh yeah, everyone's gonna be SO sad when i die" that a lot of suicidal/depressed people deal with.
This show felt like it's only priority was to treat Jax's character like a therapy session than anyone with any interesting depth, growth or nuance. I am not unsympathetic to Jax because I think she's mean. I adore Makima, I think Griffith is a great character, and I felt genuine pity for Bojack Horseman, all characters who are without a doubt FAR WORSE than Jax will ever be. I dislike Jax because she's boring. She offers nothing interesting, hogs up screen time and every single appearance is reiterating information we already know.
I am kind of glad that Ribbit and Kaufmo were not revealed to be these evil, nasty people that transformed Jax into the person he is, but now we just get more punching bags and tools for Jax's character and nothing else. Everyone else misses Kaufmo, so what was he like? did anyone else make friends before Pomni. Why did we dedicate so much time to such a boring backstory??? The only interesting thing was Jax and Ribbit's conversation and that fell apart the minute Ribbit immediately comforted him. Everyone is nice and Jax is a selfish asshole. Riveting.
I feel like a much better depiction of Jax's arc was Simon from Infinity Train. tl;dr, Simon was also a character with a lot of childhood trauma, misogynistic tendencies (though way more subtle) and a character who kept getting worse and worse until literal death. The thing though, is that you completely understand why Grace cares so much about Simon. They had a very long history together (i think it was romantic? its been a while) and both share the same morals and values, it only breaks apart when Grace begins to second guess her beliefs while Simon continues to sink further into his hatred and feed his own ego. Simon treats the women around him like their only obligation is to protect and mother him, its why when Grace saves him, Simon attempts to kill her again when her response to his question about saving his life was "i dont know" and not "because I love you". And Infinity Train had a great line that Jax desperately needed, which is that Grace is not obligated to fix Simon. She's allowed to care and worry about him, but at the end of the day, this is a grown ass man, he needs to stop relying on others to fix him.
TADC frames Jax's arc like her only flaw was just that she didn't reach out to people. No its not. Jax's flaw is that she's misogynistic, an abuser, insecure, and so obsessed with her own suffering she refuses to empathize with anyone around her. I do not care about these "masks" because these masks are a part of Jax's character. These are all the REAL Jax, not just the pathetic woobified crybaby the show desperately tries to make you feel pity for.
I've seen shows I've liked turn bad but I've never had a show make me feel like I wasted my time watching it.
4/10, Ragatha is still the best character in the show
ellievsbear
romaincrisis
tangentwithtanner
2087
janainaart
turnnoffyourmind
vaporwave
dailybridgerton
