This is a theory side blog that I am making totally devoted to Zelda theories, hunches, questions and anything Zelda related that may seem to peak your interest
It has been a while since I posted on this blog and I do feel bad that I neglected it for so long. A lot has happened for Zelda these last few months and I'm excited to get into theorizing about the upcoming Wii U game! This post is about the demo shown during The Game Awards and is using the information extrapolated on by GameXplain's video
According to their analysis they state that it is possible that the new Zelda U game is going to occur after Skyward Sword. One of the clues that they bring to emphasis is Link's handedness. In the new game he is shown to be right handed. Since the only Link to be canonically right handed was Skyward Sword Link, it is safe to assume that this game comes around Skyward Sword. Another clue earlier on is the Sailcloth that was very heavily used in Skyward Sword. That again can be a direct reference to Skyward Sword putting the new game closer to it than one can argue otherwise. In addition to all of that there is also the small glimpse of what appeared to be The Great Bridge of Hylia toward the end of the demonstration. One of the key things to notice is that the bridge is NOT in ruin. So its essentially canon that the game happened before Twilight Princess in some degree.
With these hints in mind the idea that Zelda U may start a new timeline "after" Skyward Sword is a little more plausible.
What do you think? Is Zelda U going to be a big splash on the timeline? Or is it going to be like A Link Between Worlds and just mold into the canon one?
As a means of trying to get this blog on its feet again I am going to be making a post regarding the Zelda U demonstration shown at The Game Awards in relation to my theory to where the upcoming Zelda game will land on the timeline. So look out for it! I'll have it up a little after the 25th!
I’m completely fine with there not being an overall timeline connecting all the zelda games. I think of them more like they take place in the same universe, some are clearly connected (OoT&MM, ALttP&ALBW, WW&PH&ST) but all of them together just gets hugely messy and results in the kinda ridiculous timeline(s).
But then again the multiple timelines never made sense to me. If Zelda sent Link back at the end of ocarina and he changed everything, then nothing from ocarina actually happened. If you go back in time and change the past, you obviously change the future from where you came. The horrible future 7 years later ceased to be. There would only be one timeline, which Link went back and changed, sure, but still one.
And the timeline where OoT!Link dies without defeating Ganon? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Wouldn’t that mean there would be a different timeline in case every Link died early? Why would OoT!Link dying create a whole new timeline? Because he had the ocarina? Did the ocarina create a new timeline bc of his death or how does that work? Was it destroyed and that made a new timeline? Did they kinda work themselves into a corner trying to explain how all the games fit together and needed to create more timelines for current and possibly future games??
I mean ok, since time travel isn’t real there are no actual rules, so there is no right and wrong in how you imagine it, but those are just my thoughts.
tl&dr: the zelda timeline makes no sense to me and i’m ok with there not being a giant cohesive one when they clearly didn’t plan it from the start and it makes no sense anyhow.
You have a lot of questions about the Zelda Timeline and they all are merited considering the amount of controversy behind them and the mere fact that time travel is confusing all on its own. I'm going to take things one point at a time so it doesn't turn out to be super confusing and crazy.
On the point of there being timeline splits. Those have to happen because in actuality time doesn't rewind. In other words when Zelda sent Link to the past to relive his childhood she didn't take everything back seven years. She only sent Link back. Its that action that causes a split in the timeline. The timeline where Link is sent back continues and the timeline where child link is shown at the end begins. Thats essentially the most important timeline split in the Zelda series.
On the point of Link being defeated by Ganon. You are right in saying that there would be an infinite number of timelines based on when Link dies in any point in his journey. The only reason why the Link is Defeated timeline exists in its current form is because it was the best place where those games could be lined up. So in retrospect the canon timeline is only a small amount of the possible timelines that could have branched off from the main one.
The Zelda timeline is confusing but it sort of makes sense when its really thought about in the continuity of the games. I hope this made sense to you. And im not stepping your headcanon saying its wrong or noncanon. I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject ^_^
Sorry followers, classes just started so I'm pretty preoccupied with other things. I'll see if i can post some things here later though I am kind of out of theories hah ah hhah haha
Are the Arbiter’s Grounds the Spirit Temple of Antiquity?
Author’s Note: I wrote this as part of a larger piece concerning the Arbiter’s Grounds that I am working on with a colleague. But, here is a tiny fragment of the whole! Enjoy it, and please spread it around. Also, feel free to comment on it, challenge it, or praise it. Most feedback is good feedback.
Are the Arbiter’s Grounds the Spirit Temple of Antiquity?
The short answer is, of course, a resounding and unequivocal, “No.”
But for those of you who remain unswayed by such a terse statement, let us take to examining several things commonly put forward in theories that seek to conflate the two structures. This is an important issue that demands clarification, so that misconceptions do not take on new life, and so that individual energies and creativities can begin work on new projects. This debate is one of the most persistent and entrenched within the Zelda community, and therefore deserves consideration.
Considering Location
While the Gerudo (Great) Desert resides in the western portion of both maps, one desert is oriented to the southwest, and the other to the northwest. The terminal structures of both deserts, the Arbiter’s Grounds and the Spirit Temple, respectively, have different axes of approach and construction; the Spirit Temple is approached from the East, and the Arbiter’s Grounds is approached from the South.
One inevitable aspect of the claim that the Arbiter’s Grounds is the Spirit Temple is that, as these buildings are both located in a desert province within Hyrule, they are therefore one and the same. As the whereabouts of the Gerudo Desert seem not to have changed that much in comparison with other realms over the course of the centuries between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, this seems to give a degree of credibility to this theory. However, this alone does not make it valid. Looking at the approaches to both of these complexes, and the axes to which they align themselves, we can detect a clear difference. The journey to the Spirit Temple, through the Haunted Wastelands from the Gerudo Fortress, was a westerly travel, with little deviation. The Arbiter’s Grounds, however, are on a strict north-to-south axis, aligned with a path from the southern desert. Aside from this dissimilarity, we must also remember that simply because the Gerudo Desert exists within each game does not mean that the cultural artifacts are the same; location alone cannot give absolute evidence of the continuity of structures. By that strain of logic, it could be that the Zoran Shrine behind Kakariko Graveyard is, in fact, resting upon the remains of the Shadow Temple- a ridiculous idea, given the sanctity and religiosity of the Zora. And, it is all the more ridiculous because we know that this iteration of Kakariko Village is not the same as that of Ocarina of Time. While there is a certain degree of leeway concerning absolute location within the series, caused by the enormous disparities between the two iterations of Hyrule, it does not lend itself to a complete vacuum of information into which any sort of theory can be deposited. It could be that some Being terraformed Hyrule in the intermediate centuries between these two games, or perhaps the Hyrulean communities underwent vast migrations, exoduses, and building projects that are completely unknowable to us. It is certainly tempting to draw spatial clues from these worlds, but with such a volatile and changing landscape (combined with the potential incompetence of Hyrulean cartographers), such conjectures becomes moot— to assume something as fundamental as this is to set the foundation of any theory upon unstable and shifting sands.
If location fails to support such a theory, what then takes its place? It has become standard to point out the similarities in design between the two structures, and in light of these similarities, to assume that they must be the same complex. Curiously, these theories (and those who posit them) never seem to look at the dissimilarities, and though a mountain of disparity eclipses the molehill of sameness, it is nearly always believed that the Arbiter’s Grounds is the Spirit Temple of Antiquity. Following such logic, it must be that these similarities are so potent, so clear, and so unique, so as to make this argument inviolable. So, what are they?
Three aspects of design always accompany this theory, and they are as follows: the presence of Gerudo script within both dungeons, the existence of the Goddess of the Sand, and the use of mirrors within these locations. Indeed, these are the strongest three ties between the two buildings, so let us see how they stand up to the test.
The Presence of Gerudo Script
To speak briefly of history, the origins of the Spirit Temple are somewhat more clear than are those of the Arbiter’s Grounds. As stated on page 97 of Nintendo Power’s The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Official Nintendo Player’s Guide, the Spirit Temple is known to have been constructed by the ancient predecessors of the Gerudo people, and, in the period of the events of Ocarina of Time, it is used as a fortress by the leaders of the Gerudo tribe. But, as the name indicates, its primary function was spirituality and worship. The Arbiter’s Grounds have a much murkier history. The origins of the structure are completely unknown, and can only be guessed at; their original purpose has been swallowed by time, and the vestiges that remain visible to the eye speak of many different possibilities. Through analysis and sociohistorical insight, aspects of provenance and function can be determined, but it is clear that the primary purpose of this place, in the time of Twilight Princess, was not focused upon religion. With names such as the Executioner’s Grounds and the Arbiter’s Keep, and its reputation as a prison on the edges of the world, this complex, at some point in history, was given life as a place of incarceration and exile. When this occurred exactly is, once again, unknown, but we must view the Arbiter’s Grounds as such a location, regardless of original purpose.
The Spirit Temple was likely a sacred place of the Gerudo, constructed by their ancestors and utilized by each generation of tribeswomen. Thus, it is completely unsurprising that the Spirit Temple should have been embellished and adorned with the script of the Gerudo. The script can be found upon the gold and burgundy plaques of the temple, as well as upon the sandstone walls— most prominently in the sanctum sanctorum, in which rests the seated and meditating statue of the Goddess of the Sand. These reliefs say nothing of importance, though, and are instead a repetitious cycle of the whole Gerudo alphabet which covers the entirety of the chamber. Clearly, the Gerudo masons who constructed and embellished this space were seeking atmosphere over meaning, or were perhaps repeating a mantra of the alphabet that we cannot possibly understand.
As in the Spirit Temple, the presence of Gerudo script can also be found within the Arbiter’s Grounds, where it adorns etchings, reliefs, and other various artworks. But, it is nowhere near as prominently featured as it is within the Spirit Temple. Yet, it is there, and this seems to hint at the fact that the Gerudo were involved in some capacity, or at least their culture consulted, in the building of this monumental complex. As has been said, this is ultimately unknowable; the Gerudo could have been involved willingly in construction (doubtful), they could have been forced into indentured servitude (more likely), or those that created this space could have simply used common tropes and cultural residue left from older civilizations of the desert regions of Hyrule. It could also have been a combination of all three possibilities, but, even then, we are no closer to discovering the reason that the Gerudo Script is present in this place. Simply because the script can be found here does not mean that the Gerudo were involved, either willingly or forcibly; it could just be a matter of a newer culture building upon the artistic traditions of an older culture. And, this happens all the time. Cultures are annihilated and absorbed and created and blended in each movement of the cyclical dance of History.
It should also be pointed out in this section that the Gerudo script is not the only script present within the Arbiter’s Grounds. This fact is one of the most discomforting and confusing aspects of the entire complex for those of us seeking to truly understand its background and purpose. While the other scripts are not anything recognizable (one appears to be some form of proto-Hylian, or something within the same language family, possibly, and the other appears more angular and sharp, like a primitive Cuneiform), they do exist, which means, potentially, that other forces than the Hylians and Gerudo had a hand in the formation of this space. Certainly, these unknown peoples left their mark within the Arbiter’s Grounds, upon the walls, within the ritualistic circles upon the floor, and in the atmosphere.
So, is the presence of Gerudo script enough to draw an absolute connection between these two structures? It certainly connects them culturally, establishing them in a singular architectural tradition, but it does not mean, at all, that these two constructs are indeed the same. It is a wildly speculative claim, and is ultimately unconvincing in light of their multitudinous and enormous differences.
The Goddess of the Sand
One of the various poses of the Goddess as seen in the Arbiter’s Grounds.
The Goddess of the Sand is an utter enigma. We truly know nothing of her, except that she is, potentially, a deity of the world respected by the Gerudo. Her presence is rare within Hyrule, and seems to be connected only to the Gerudo community. The religious practices surrounding her are non-existent within The Legend of Zelda mythos, and her function in these holy spaces is all but unknown. Yet, because statues of her exist within both the Spirit Temple and the Arbiter’s Grounds, people jump to make a connection that is all-but-absolute within their heads that the two are one.
Though few buildings are tied as clearly to a people as these two buildings seem to be tied to the Gerudo, the logic which conflates the two structures due to the presence of these statues is faulty. Despite the fact that these statues are present in both structures, and I must once again make this point, this does not mean that these structures are the same historical construct.
Externally, the Desert Colossus of the Spirit Temple (being the Goddess of the Sand herself) is the most prominent aspect of the temple’s facade. She is huddled under an outcropping of stone, a massive tectonic upthrust from the heart of the desert, where she rests in its vast shade. Both statue and stone are missing completely from the Arbiter’s Grounds. Likewise, her enormous counterpart within the temple is also missing. These two statues make the Spirit Temple into one of the most instantly-recognizable places within Hyrule. So, in light of the fact that they are present in one structure but nonexistent in the other, what should we believe? Is it plausible to imagine that the statues were destroyed by time or by an invader? Yes, absolutely. Is it fair to assume that access to the Spirit Temple has been blocked off and hidden from the world? I would dare to say so, yes. Is it permissible to state that the statues found within the Arbiter’s Grounds are those selfsame statues? I do not believe so.
The statues found within the Arbiter’s Grounds are remarkably different than those found within the Spirit Temple. While the expression, meditative pose, and design of the Goddess of the Sand may have remained more-or-less the same (which is a very unsurprising and well-known phenomenon of cultural transmission), there are clear disparities between these statues. Most apparent is the difference in size. The two statues found within the Spirit Temple are, as the name Desert Colossus implies, colossal. But not so in the Arbiter’s Grounds. These statues are on a much more comfortable and personal scale- while they are still larger than any human, they do not dwarf humans to the point that an individual could rest within the palm of a statuesque hand. Furthermore, the statues of the Arbiter’s Grounds have no coloration, and are vastly different in detail than the colorful Spirit Temple iterations. The headdress is different, the serpent is different, and her clothing is different; in fact, she hardly appears to be wearing clothes, and is instead adorned with various geometric textures and designs. There is no jewel in between her breasts, and, in each pose, her hands have become torches. And while her seated posture in the Arbiter’s Grounds is a clearly traditional stance, she is also found in several different standing positions that are found nowhere within the Spirit Temple. All of this goes to show that, once again, her presence within both of these places is merely evidence of continuity in regional culture, and nothing more.
The Mirror as Thematic Continuity
This element of the argument is the weakest by far. It is only through the heavy thematic elements utilized by The Legend of Zelda series that theorists are able to posit this as a foundation to their argument.
It is unquestionable that mirrors play a pivotal and obvious role in the structure and gameplay of the Spirit Temple. They allow access to certain areas, help Link to defeat certain enemies, and play heavily into the elemental theme of light against darkness. One of the items given unto Link by the Temple is the Mirror Shield, which acts as a substitute for the many mirrors previously found within the Temple, thus adding an additional supporting element to this theme. But, there are no mirrors within the Arbiter’s Grounds themselves. The only mirror is found above them, in a Hylian construction perched atop the remains of the Grounds below. This is the Mirror of Twilight, which, in actuality, is more a portal than a mirror. While one side contains a polished, and slightly reflective, surface, its primary role was not in reflecting light or images. It was originally used to bridge the void between the planes of light and shadow, and later used to banish those who dared to defy the gods. So, this marked absence of mirrors between the two dungeons is also something to keep in mind- especially since the only true mirror within the Arbiter’s Grounds is a relic of ancient power used to completely different ends than those mirrors of the Spirit Temple. Thematically, then, these mirrors seem entirely unrelated in both design and function.
Looking at Differences, as Opposed to Similarities
Since theme has been brought up, are the two locations similar enough thematically to warrant them being considered the same place?
To be overly brief, I do not believe so. The Spirit Temple has an atmosphere unhurried, respectful, and contemplative. It is, first and foremost, a place to meditate upon the passage of time, examine both youth and age, and a place to pay respect to the departed.
By contrast, the Arbiter’s Grounds as they are presented in Twilight Princess glorify death, damnation, and torture, and are, in theme, much more similar to the Shadow Temple of Ocarina of Time, if they are to be compared to anything at all. Undeath permeates the complex, strange creatures have crawled back from the void to wreak violence upon the living, and implements of torture and affliction are to be found many places within the Grounds.
But the biggest differences rest in structural layout.
Upon examination of the two floor plans for these complexes, it becomes increasingly evident that they are either not the same place, or that centuries of reconstruction projects have rendered them vastly different from one another. For if we just take the two prints at face value with no other considerations, there can be no doubt whatsoever that they are, in fact, not the same structure.
Discounting the external differences of the two- the presence of the Desert Colossus in one, and the overwhelming Colosseum of the other- the internal disparities quickly become apparent upon closer examination. Though each edifice has four floors, they are arranged uniquely unto themselves, and are hugely distinct in size and layout. For instance, not one of the floors contains the same number of rooms between the two architectural blueprints. Looking toward the Spirit Temple, we see a nearly symmetrical layout that centers around the sanctuary. Most rooms directly flank the sanctuary, and all major stairways flow into this room, as well. Conceptually, the rooms are all highly angular; there are no curvilinear walls, nor is there a gentle fluidity to its design. Most of these chambers are rectangular, but more than a few are octagonal. When compared to the Arbiter’s Grounds, we find that the Spirit Temple is much more rigid in nature. The Arbiter’s Grounds contain many completely circular rooms, that, in several cases, encompass multiple floors. There are no such chambers within the Spirit Temple, nor is anything the size of the boss chamber containing Stallord to be found therein. The Arbiter’s Grounds are much less focused on the horizontal axis of layout than the Spirit Temple, and the plan seems more cruciform in essence, with its four great passages extending from the central nexus along the points of the compass. Any way one looks at it, the dissimilarities are too numerous to count, as are the design features in both layout and interior embellishment.
Finally, the most damning evidence in face of this argument is this: the Arbiter’s Grounds already existed in the years immediately following the events of Ocarina of Time. The Japanese version of the Hyrule Historia, which must always take canonical precedence over other translations, on page 113, states, clearly, that, “Several years later (数年後), Ganondorf, the infamous demon thief who wielded the power of magic, was finally to be executed.” As Twilight Princess shows us through a particularly tragic cutscene, the Colosseum atop the Arbiter’s Grounds, wherein the Mirror of Twilight was located, was already in existence at this time. And, though the word several is a relatively vague word, it is generally held that it means more than two, but not much higher. In the English version of the Hyrule Historia, this line was translated using the word many, so the disparity should be quite apparent between the two translations. Given that it was only several years between Ocarina of Time and the execution of Ganondorf, it is therefore rather absurd, given all the aforementioned differences in design and concept between the two structures, to believe that the Spirit Temple was dismantled and a new structure built upon it in such a short span of years.
Conclusion
Even with all of these disparities, though, some still maintain that the two must be the same structure. To these people, I would like to pose a few questions. Where, in the Spirit Temple, is there evidence of any Spinner-related technology, which appears hundreds of years old, if not older? How did the structure change so greatly in layout and design in the scant years between Ocarina of Time and the execution of Ganondorf? And, finally, with all of these changes, additions, and deletions, can these two creations even be called the same structure?
Let us consider: even if this building was placed directly atop the Spirit Temple, using bits and pieces of its rubble to construct the newer project, it would be the same structure inasmuch as the Beijing Olympic Stadium was the same traditional houses (Siheyuan) upon which it was built, or that the Colosseum of Rome remained the same as Nero’s Domus Aurea. Just because elements or even actual pieces of the previous building were used in the construction of the new does not mean that the building remains the same. Function, layout, and design are all altered in order to christen these new complexes, but no one pretends that these can possibly be the same from beginning to end. In good conscience, then, it is difficult to make the statement that the Arbiter’s Grounds retain enough similarity to the Spirit Temple so as to make them the same feat of architectural engineering.
With such an unknown history in mind, to base one’s belief on such flimsy, unsupported evidence is folly. Connections can be made between the Spirit Temple and the Arbiter’s Grounds, as has been readily and eagerly admitted, but these connections simply represent cultural continuity, especially within a region as distinct as the Gerudo Desert. But, in this instance, correlation does not overcome disparity, and a fuller, more nuanced analysis has been undertaken in order to shed further light upon this most heated of topics. It is my hope that misconceptions have been deconstructed, and that the lens of history has been cleared of dust during this investigation. Finally, let us not forget to thank those who originally brought up such a theory, because the world is all the more rich due to its various controversies and dialogues. Indeed, without these theories, this response would not exist. For all my praise of dialogue, though, let us hope that this issue can finally be at rest.
I made this blog to hear your input on Zelda theories and to hear what you all think about what you feel is the best interpretation of canon and I have gotten some really nice theories from some of you and thanks to those who sent me some. But for this blog to work I need more outside input. This is the zelda fandom's blog as much as it is mine. I just monitor it.
So please feel free to send in your theories/thoughts/experiences. Anything about the Legend of Zelda that makes you think.
I'm not sure if you've read it, but at the back of the hyrule historia is a short comic about a hero before skyloft, the hero that challenged demise first, it is my belief that he will be zelda wii u's main character. Great job with this blog btw
I have read it and yea its possible that this new game is about related to that. However, at the end of the manga it shows link dying in his efforts to beat Demise. I am not sure if Nintendo will make a game were Link dies at the end of the game but its still a possibility.
Personally I would be okay with either. We'll just have to wait.
I have been playing a lot of Mass Effect of late and so the idea of artificial intelligence keeps getting brought up throughout the series. For those who are unfamiliar with the series, there is an AI named EDI who eventually becomes unshackled and her development in the story continues from there.
This gave me the thought: What about Fi, or even Ghirahim were AIs! One can argue that they are AIs considering that they were created by another being and not by biological means. Both of them have non-organic powers ie the power to teleport.
The biggest clue for this is Fi. Throughout the game she speaks in an almost robotic tone. She offers advise through collected data and analysis and not so much a sense of emotion. She feels emotionless, at least until the end of the game where she is thankful for being with Link and spending the adventure with him. But even still her speech and not to mention the reasoning for her appearance all point to some kind of technological power. She only appeared when Zelda, the goddess Hylia reborn, was in danger. She appeared to have been programmed to appear then.
On the note of Ghirahim. It appears as though he was created by Demise well before Fi. His demeanor is more emotion driven, he feels anger, happiness, sorrow, etc. So its arguable that Ghirahim developed these emotions by observing all the things around him. And considering he was "programmed" by Demise, the destruction and death were what appealed to him.
To even further the point we can look at what the land of Hyrule was like when under the influence of the timeshift stones. There were mining robots, security turrets, enemies with technological weapons. So its possible that the Goddesses and presumably Demise had the knowledge of creating entities that did their bidding but had the ability to learn on their own and develop their own ideologies and emotions. At least we can say this for Fi. Ghirahim not so much.
Here’s a random theory that just hit me: The Alternate Timeline from Skyward Sword is the timeline that lead into all the games, not the Current Timeline. Here’s why I think so:
During the present timeline, you completely destroy the demon king Demise with the Triforce, before he gets a chance to curse Link and Zelda!But in the past, Ghirahim fully revives him, and he isn’t destroyed completely, and he curses them or rather their souls. When they return to the present, the timeline splits and they end up in a timeline where there is no curse, meaning no endless cycles. But in the past the curse is still active, which leads into Minish Cap, Four Swords, Ocarina of Time and maybe Zelda U.
Okay, we all have our own opinions and it seems as if the whole thing about the Majora’s Mask storyline is about Link overcoming death… After saving Hyrule and putting the Master Sword away, no one gives a damn about what happened. It is a lot like the concept Gahndi explained, “Everything you do will be insignificant, but it is important that you do it.” Of course We could all say that Link was hallucinating the whole thing about being in the Lost Woods without a fairy and turning into a Stalfos, eventually, was the symbolic event of the Moon crashing on Clock town.
I do believe that Link was piecing together Hyrule with his faint memories. This is how Termina came to be. That’s also why everyone is named differently in Majora’s Mask than Ocarina of Time… Bizzaro world…. Whatever…
The point I am trying to make here is that everyone seems to actually overlook the mask of Majora. The Happy Mask Salesman is the only other character other than Zelda that Link remembers quite well. In Ocarina of time, the last mask you got in the Happy Mask Shop was the Mask of Truth… It had a special ability. “You can read people’s minds while wearing it.” Which is true. This was the only mask that had a special ability in OoT. But wait, isn’t the Lens of Truth similar? Enables you to see things that are hidden when used. They both have the same design on each of the items, which is the Eye of Truth.
This is also a symbol of the Sheikahs. You can see in OoT that Sheik(Zelda) is wearing the Eye of Truth on her outfit. Also Impa wears it on her outfit. These are the only two characters in the game that wear that.
Anyways, the Sheikahs are an old tribe. Not mentioned anymore and they are only spoken about within the blood of the Royal Family. However, Zelda tells you this. In Majora’s Mask the Happy Mask Salesman tells you that he found Majora’s Mask in place where this “old tribe” had hid it. Maybe the tribe had trusted the Happy mask Salesman to keep the Mask of Truth.
Notice that his shop is on the corner before you get to Hyrule Castle. Sorry to go off track here, but what is the most appealing thing about Majora’s Mask? Any guesses? It’s the eyes. What about the most appealing thing on the Mask of Truth? The fucking eye…
Did anyone else also notice how the Lens of Truth is purple and has horns on top of it, similar to Majora’s Masks’ horns? Not to mention that you found the Lens of Truth in scariest and goriest place in the game. Then you had to use it just to beat the Shadow Temple(which Impa guards as a sage). It seems as if they all relate. Majora’s Mask has evil abilities. It was designed for a need of destruction. The Mask of Truth technically had an evil ability, reading people’s minds is an invasion of privacy… They both relate. Maybe the Mask of Truth was the prototype of Majora’s Mask….
Little is known about the Sheikahs. That is a history that could expand greatly throughout the series. I know what you’re thinking: “if Link is hallucinating his story to overcome death in Majora’s Mask, would the mask be a hallucination too?” There are a few things to explain here. The only time Link was awake was at the beginning of the game. It sort of looked like he was about to fall asleep. With the starting of the game and when Skull Kid is introduced, that is when his dream began.
It’s a lot like a movie. Take the movie ‘Click’ for example, Adam Sandler was stressing and wanted things to go well for once. He is shown closing his eyes for 3 seconds and his story began. At the end of it he wakes up and learns a valuable lesson, I.e Link overcoming death and leaving the Lost Woods.
Since Link was piecing “Hyrule”(Termina) together in his mind, he remembered certain faces from the previous game. He couldnt remember their names so he guessed closely. Now, with Majora’s Mask being the antagonist of the story, here’s a little opinion of mine. I believe that the mask of Majora was made by the Sheikahs. They are an ancient tribe that do not exist. Only Zelda and Impa are in that bloodline.
Since the mask has such dark powers and is meant for destruction, we could say that Majora was the leader of the Sheikahs. Zelda and Impa probably broke away from that tribe due to the fact that Majora tried to turn the Sheikah tribe evil. This being said, there was a lot, and I mean A LOT of darkness and evil in Hyrule.
Remember the Bottom of the Well in OoT? You found the Lens of Truth there. Also, there were many torture chambers and prison cells down there. Then later you had to go back to the Shadow Temple… The darkest part of the game…. Impa was the sage of the darkest temple of the game. This leads to a mystery: Why the fuck would Zelda’s caretaker be set in place to be a sage for the Shadow Temple?
I mean, I understand that the Sheikahs are considered the “Shadow Folk,” but why is the Shadow temple so dark if Impa is a good person? I understand it is the graveyard of the fallen of Hyrule. All the other sages seemed to match their temples just fine.
But as I was saying, Link was dreaming/hallucinating in Majora’s Mask, he tried to put what was left of his memories together since he knew he had a short time. Since Majora’s Mask could be real, let’s say that the mask represented Zelda’s(Sheik’s) pride and wrath. Zelda lied to Link about being Sheik until toward the end of the game of OoT. in a way, this was betrayal.
Link tried to remember Sheik, but the mask is the chain that blocks his memory, so instead it is Majora’s Mask. Remember, Sheikahs are not supposed to be seen, they are sacred. They are like ninjas. Remember as I said, the Sheikahs could have been taken over by Majora’s wrath which meant Zelda and Impa broke away later down the road… I know there may be a few wormholes in this theory but this is what I have come to believe so far.
I do like the thought put into this theory but I do have problems with it. I already made a post about the notion of Link being dead in Majora's Mask is completely impossible. It is completely impossible with Twilight Princess Link's existence. <link> On the note that Link was hallucinating his whole time in Termina it is pretty argueable that he can be. However, the problem I have is where would the hallucination start? The beginning of the game he was shown riding Epona, travelling through the Lost Woods and was looking around to see if there were any clues of Navi (or perhaps he was looking for a clue as to where he was.) If the hallucination happened when he fell off Epona then what caused her to kick up? It was Tael and Tatl who were with Skull Kid. So even then he would have to be hallucinating at the very start of the game.
My interpretation of the beginning of the game was that in his pursuit of Skull Kid who had Epona and the Ocarina of Time, Skull Kid created an illusion. The drop in the tree was an illusion generated by Skull Kid because in any world a drop of that distance would kill a person, even Link. He did land on a Deku Flower but I am not sure if that by itself could cushion a fall from that height. The way I see it was an illusion from Skull Kid to knock Link vulnerable and then turn him into a Deku.However, this point is debatable.
Now on the idea that the Sheikah are the ones who created Majora's Mask. Its more compelling to say that the Dark Interlopers from Twilight Princess' lore are the ones who created it because of the similarities between the Fused Shadow and Majora's Mask. Also not to mention the Dark Interlopers were a band of beings who specialized in dark magic and disappeared when they were banished to the Twilight Realm and eventually became the Twili. There is a video I posted about in one of my earlier posts that explains this theory in detail stating how the Dark Interlopers were once the Ancient Tribe that created Majora's Mask, travelled to Hyrule via a portal above Stone Tower Temple, and then pursued the Triforce for their own. My theory on this is that they created Majora's Mask as the original Fused Shadow. They wanted Majora's Mask to do what the Fused Shadow did but it went out of control so they sealed it away. All of this is extrapolated in the video linked here. Other than the stylisitic similarities that are questionable and the correlation of Impa to the Shadow Temple, which has little to do with Majora's Mask to begin with, theres really little evidence that make the link between the Sheikah and the mask.
It was also stated in Skyward Sword that Impa's duty was to protect the Goddess reborn (Zelda) so its clear that they are a race that follows the teachings of the Golden Goddesses. They serve to protect the realm of Hyrule from evil and so its doubtful that they would try to bring about evil.
For those who have never played the gem of the zelda game that is Freshly Picked Tingle’s Rosy Rupeeland, firstly: For shame. Secondly, it has spurred an interesting thought that I’ve elaborated on for a good friend. What if it IS canon after all? What would it imply? In the game, a mild mannered unnamed man is granted an offer by “Uncle Rupee”, a seemingly divine figure with a rupee for a head that offers him a deal: Become Tingle and gather rupees, and you will get to go to rupeeland, a land where nobody has to work, to paraphrase for brevity’s sake. As the game progresses it’s revealed that Uncle Rupee is actually a demon who converts people into slaves, dressed like tingle, to gather rupees, and eventually be trapped in his hell known as rupeeland, actually a place where all his accumulated slaves serve him. This got me thinking about the other Tingles that Links have encountered on their adventures. Think where they lie on the timeline. Majora’s Mask, Wind Waker, Oracle of Ages, Minish Cap, Four Swords Adventures, you couldn’t jump around more in the timeline if you tried, but there he is, that weird, creepy green clad dude trying to make a quick rupee at Link’s expense. But what if they WEREN’T the same Tingle? It’s implied in FPTRR that Tingle is more a state of being than a name, a curse bestowed by Uncle Rupee. So what if the son of the photographer in Majora’s Mask, the brother of Ankle and Knuckle in Wind Waker, all of the Tingles we’ve met, were all unfortunate souls tricked by the demon known as Uncle Rupee, doomed to gather rupees for a false paradise? What if they’re not actually just weirdos, but are honestly cursed by a demon who’s not so evil as to incur any justice from brave heroes, simple devious and greedy enough to trick saps that nobody would miss into serving his fairly nefarious schemes? It’s the perfect crime after all. Link never confronts Uncle Rupee. That’s on some random Tingle who managed to figure things out and beat Uncle Rupee at his own game, not some chosen champion of justice. And what does that say for other demons, like Demise? Is it possible that we have several demons of varying power and inclinations, since it looks like Uncle Rupee would have to exist? How else could Tingle be in so many different games in literal different timelines, from way back in Minish Cap all the way to Wind Waker?
I've gained a lot of followers these passed couple of days and I'm really glad that this blog is growing the way it is. Currently I'm replaying Majora's Mask to see if I can pick up on a few things that I may have glossed over in my previous playthroughs. So far its going good but now I am mere hours away from my arch nemesis.....Gyorg. I'll make a theory post soon, but I don't have many ideas right now so until then this blog will be pretty quiet. If you want to get more of me follow me on my main blog nintendobutt. Its were I am the most active.
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For the sake of our follower's eyes and the complete lack of desire to having to scroll endlessly on a single theory post i think we should tackle these 8 points of discussion separately. Just for convenience and the ability to focus on individual topics.
with a link between worlds, do you think the golden goddesses created lorule at the same time? because the wiki alludes to them creating the lorule triforce as well but that doesnt sound right to me and i dont know where they got that information. i feel like there are another set of golden goddesses in lorule (and it would be a cool headcanon that if the triforce was pointing down, that they went to rest in the earth instead of the heavens but thats a bit off topic)
so basically here are a few things i need to know-
1. was lorule created by the same gods as hyrule or were they parallel gods?
2. do you think every event has been parallel? like there was a goddess named “lolia” or something like that and that she reincarnated as a line of princesses named hilda?
3. do you think hilda, ravio, and yuga are also cursed to reenact history over and over again? like the events of skyward sword similarly happened in lorule?
4. do you think that the lorule civil war happened at the same exact time as the hyrule civil war? because the game was a bit confusing about that. it seemed as if their triforce was destroyed at the same time as ocarina of time’s hyrule war (except hyrule just keeping their triforce), but hilda and other npcs also seem to make it out that this war happened directly before the events of albw. hilda confuses me on this because she constantly makes it seem as if the triforce was destroyed a long time ago, and that it also was destroyed rather recently :/
5. do you think there are split timelines in lorule? because obviously albw is set on the downfall timeline so that could mean that lorule is also on a downfall timeline, or that when yuga broke through into hyrule’s sacred realm, he specifically went to the downfall timeline for some reason. i did read a theory that in the child timeline, lorule is the twilight realm, but i actually dont think thats true, because i would venture that lorule has its own twilight realm.
6. is it just me or are the events that albw describe a little fuzzy compared to the events of the earlier games in the downfall timeline? for example: it says that ganon got the triforce AGAIN but how did it follow him into death? i mean the oracle games seem to say that hyrule had full possession of the triforce and placed it in what looks like the northern palace from aol. and then ganon also had been killed for the second time at the end of the oracle linked games. he is very beastlike in albw though which makes sense as koume and kotake screwed up the resurrection ritual and made him a beast. then of course there’s alttp saying that the master sword was never used again, but that i can imagine was some harmless retcon. but i just have to wonder how the triforce was split again, and then hidden in the spirit of the hero only to be recovered when the seven sages revived it in him.
7. i wonder why all 7 sages were needed AND zelda to resurrect ganon? i mean zelda is technically a descendant of a sage, but i suppose yuga needed the blood of hylia as an extra or something. i personally think that seres and zelda are both descendants of alttp zelda. it was especially strange to see the new sacred realm have pedestals for all 7 sages instead of just the six, and on top of that they had new symbols. i think its pretty obvious who are descendants of whom but of course all the alttp sages are human women, so idk?? i feel like MAYBE descendant isnt exactly the word as reincarnation is or something, and twilight princess’s siz sages will forever confuse me, are they the spirits without bodies?? and why are they so damn cowardly??? i mean impa, nabooru, and darunia were extremely tough but man were those sages scared when ganondorf murdered the water sage. zome of zelda canon deeply confuses me sorry…
8. bonus question! is it just me or do you think that skyward sword should actually have two timelines? i mean its obvious from ocarina of time that the direct result of a paradox is a split timeline, and there was a pretty big paradox at the end of skyward sword. because link had killed the imprisoned right? but then ghirahim took zelda and brought her back in time with him to resurrect demise, to where link “killed” him by killing him and then letting his essence rot in the master sword (which is why i think it took so long for him to reincarnate as ganondorf) so that means that the imprisoned never needed to be killed with the triforce and zelda couldve unfrozen right then and there seeing as how demise was gone, so there wouldve been two woken zeldas at the same time, and her crystal isnt nearby when link does put the master sword to rest. so theres a whole timeline where the imprisoned didnt exist and everyone probably stayed on skyloft and hyrule was never founded probably. i dont know it just seems like thats a pretty major paradox right there.
This is quite a lot! I will try my best to answer these as best as I can. They are under the cut.
I am not sure what the Wiki was referencing but from my observation, Hyrule's triforce was based on three virtues that were different than Lorule's Its possible that there were different Gods/Goddesses probably representing the opposite of Power, Wisdom, and Courage or some other variant. See Hilda's reveal of her plan as a reference for what I am saying.
Its really up in the air as to the history of Lorule. We just don't have any evidence of there being parallels that go that far as to say that there is a Lorulian version of every game. It would be pretty cool, but there is really not enough evidence to back it up. I'd like to think that Lorule has its own history and considering that the Triforce was destroyed in Lorule, its possible that nothing has happened to it until the events in ALBW.
See question two. We don't know if theres a Demise equivalent. I have a theory that Demise was originally from Lorule but that is all speculation with little evidence. Without a Triforce to pursue it makes no sense that there is more chaos than there already is in Lorule.
My assumption is that the Lorulian triforce was destroyed a LONG time ago. Perhaps even during the events prior to where Hyrule's Civil War was around. My theory is that Lorule slowly transitioned to what it was in ALBW and that the triforce was not around from very early on.
There is so little Lorulian history available that its really hard to answer this question with any confidence. As far as the Twilight Realm being Lorule, I have a theory that the shown Twilight Realm is in fact Lorule's Sacred Realm the only thing is that there is no restored Triforce in that land. The post is here. I could be wrong.
I don't think Ganon is ever truly killed. He's more of an entity that returns as a form of Demise's hatred and can be resurrected as many times as possible. He's never truly slain because of Demise's curse. I'm not really truly familiar with ALTTP and the Oracle series but I do feel that Ganon is a power that can never truly be vanquished. Once the Triforce is used, it goes back to him it seems.
The sages are interchangeable entities. They they are not immortal as shown in TP. They change every cycle and mostly just a key to the Triforce.
I was doing some thinking on the similarities between the trailer for Zelda U shown at E3 2014 and Skyward Sword and after reading one small comment on a YouTube Video it dawned on me. There was a huge timeline split in Skyward Sword at the very end of the game. This theory...
If ghirahim went back in time and is killed there, the events that happened in skyloft would still have happened. Link and Zelda would have had to have killed ghirahim from that time period for the theory to work.
I think.
I don't think so. Ghirahim was in his sword form during the battle between LInk and Demise. Assuming Ghirahim was killed during that battle then Ghirahim would not exist to pursue Zelda to resurrect Demise. Everything would just be calm because the both of them are gone.
I was doing some thinking on the similarities between the trailer for Zelda U shown at E3 2014 and Skyward Sword and after reading one small comment on a YouTube Video it dawned on me. There was a huge timeline split in Skyward Sword at the very end of the game. This theory is probably well established but I will still explain it.
At the end of Skyward Sword, Ghirahim takes Zelda through the Gate of Time to resurrect Demise there. Link's win against Demise was the actual point of the split. Since Demise was killed in the past there was no need for the events in Skyward Sword to occur at all. After Link, Zelda, and Groose all go back to their present the timeline with Demise dead in the past continues on with the remaining entities that didn't ascend with Skyloft remaining.
With that in mind a world without Demise and presumably Ghirahim would mean that the people of Skyloft would continue their lives thinking that there is no land beneath them, the Master Sword would not be forged, and the Triforce would still be in Skyloft.
Im theorizing that the new Zelda U game will occur in none of the current known timelines but it will start a new one which will be before Skyward Sword even happened. I'm not sure how plausible this is but its an interesting take on where the new Zelda U game may fall.
