Since The Dreadful stills shook the Jonsa beehive, we've been awakeâand I've been rewatching many GOT clips since then. I started thinking about this topic while watching scenes of Jon and Sansa after he was named King in the North. To this day, I still see comments calling Sansa âarrogantâ or power-hungry, saying she constantly undermines Jon by questioning him in public. And honestly? I think thatâs incredibly unfair. People are so quick to interpret Sansaâs actions through Jonâs perspectiveânot only without considering why he sees her that way, but also without trying to understand where Sansa herself is coming from.
Letâs take a look at Jon first. Heâs carried a lifelong inferiority complex from being a bastard â heâs always felt like he doesnât truly belong or deserve anything heâs given. And then he was literally betrayed and murdered by the Nightâs Watch. Thatâs a deep, legitimate trauma. We understand that, we empathize with him.
So when Sansa questions him, it triggers his fears of being unworthy or even betrayed again. Her opinion matters to him â probably more than anyone else's â so it stings even more when he perceives her disagreement as disapproval. But that doesnât mean she is undermining him.
I'm going to be that person and say that we live in a patriarchal society, and fandoms reflect that. People instinctively side with male POVs, and dismiss or villainize women who step out of line, specially when these ones represent the "nagging wife/partner" trope (think about Skyler, for example), or go against the male protagonists opinions. In this case, fans rush to empathize with Jonâs insecurities, but they donât extend the same empathy to Sansa.
Which is wild, because this girl spent FIVE WHOLE SEASONS (in-world years) being silenced, ridiculed, abused â literally held hostage, over and over again. By Cersei. By Joffrey. By the Boltons. Surrounded by spies, sadists, liars. She learned to smile and nod while she was breaking inside. She survived King's Landing, the Boltons, and countless moments where she had to stay quiet to survive. Now, for the first time, she's back home â finally in a position where her voice can be heard and respected â and people expect her to stay silent?
Yes, she questions Jon. Yes, she wants to be taken seriously. And yes, she wants credit. But is that really so wrong?
Wanting recognition doesnât make her arrogant, nor power-hungry. Wanting to speak after years of silence isnât an act of rebellion â itâs an act of healing. Jon interprets her disagreement through the lens of his trauma, and she speaks from hers.
And thatâs what frustrates me: fans can understand Jonâs trauma, but suddenly forget what trauma looks like when itâs Sansaâs.
Thereâs this scene where she compares Jon to Joffrey, and he gets offended â understandably so. But when he asks if she really thinks heâs like Joffrey, she shuts it down right after, telling him heâs nothing like Joffrey. Because he isnât. And she knows that. But her reaction came from her own pain. Her own history. She lived for years with men who silenced, mocked, used and abused her. She's the one who's been undermined for years.
Now that sheâs finally free, surrounded by people who care about her, why shouldnât she speak up?
People love to say Sansa was out of line, that she wanted power to herself (also projecting Arya's pov), that she was just trying to tear Jon down. But maybe â just maybe â she finally felt safe enough to disagree.
If anything, the fact that she does disagree with Jon publicly shows that she sees him as someone who will listen, not punish. It means she feels safe enough to say what she thinks. Thatâs not arrogance, thatâs trust.
So no, sheâs not trying to undermine Jon. Sheâs trying to protect him. And protect herself too. (plus, we have a whole-ass season 8 with her being Jon's PR manager: hyping him up, vouching for him, mad that he gave up the crown, pushing his claim to the iron throne. Girl was putting in work, lmao)
I think the internet's insistence that "oh you KNOW it was definitely so awkward, uncomfortable, and disturbing for them to play lovers!!" is one of the most hilarious and embarrassing things ever. Not to be dramatic, but Kit and Sophie were playing Jon Snow and Sansa Stark like they wanted to eat each other alive.
They played Jon Snow and Sansa Stark like two people who were told in advance that the characters were eventually going to start making out and get married, so they needed to please lay the foundation that they're obsessed with each other. You couldn't stop those two from staring at each other's lips -- you couldn't stop those two from looking like they were infatuated, guilty, and jealous -- all at the same time. If it was an unintended accident, it was ludicrously hilarious and iconic.
But, what's even funnier and more iconic, is that Kit and Sophie jumped at the chance to play these characters and this relationship. Sorry. She literally called Kit and said, "Boy oh boy, do I have the script for you." And he said, "Send it to me, STAT!" A canon event, I fear. She saw, "These two characters spend the whole movie getting freaky in a shack," and hit dial on Kit's contact lolol. And y'all are adamant they were uncomfortable?? They're not actually cousins, my loves. They're actors and friends, so let's be so for real lmaoo
i will never shut up about jon promising to protect sansa in 6x09 and then the parallel of lyanna begging ned to promise to protect jon IN THE NEXT EPISODE. something something âif the day should ever come when your lord father was forced to chose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other what would he do?â and we KNOW ned picked love. ned loved his sister so much he lied to his king and bff to protect jon. ned loved his daughter so much he sacrificed his honor and duty to the realm and lied to protect sansa.
the writers intentionally put sansa at the center of jon and danyâs conflict. sansaâs not in kingâs landing during the battle in 8x05 or 8x06 but she still haunts the narrative, her name is brought up by FOUR different characters. jon was ready to die if dany saw him as a threat to the throne. âi'm tired of fighting itâs all i've done since i left home.â and the only way to get through to him and to get him to fight again and to kill dany is to mention sansa and how sheâll never be safe with dany around. âif we donât take back the north weâll never be safe i want you to help me but i'll do it myself if i have to.â
and sansa is so used to being alone. she spent months waiting for robb to rescue her from king's landing, and it never happened. robb chose the north, his duty, over her. and she's beaten for the north's independence and then sold to two different families who stole the north from her. and then she finally finds help in theon and brienne and podrick but she doesn't feel completely safe again until she's in jon's arms. but even then she's still ready for more disappointment, to be separated from her family again because âlife is not a songâ and âthere are no heroes.â but jon isnât robb. âjon isnât tormund. jon isnât davos, or the red woman, or stannis for that matter. jon is jon.â
âwhere will you go? where will we go. i wonât ever let him touch you again. we need to trust each other. until i return the north is yours. touch my sister and iâll kill you myself. what you did for her is the only reason iâm not killing you. iâm her family too. what about everyone else? what about the other people who think they know whatâs good? iâll protect you, i promise. no one can protect me, no one can protect anyone.â but jon proves her wrong, he can protect her. he will keep her safe. because when his day comes and he has to chose between love and duty, he chooses her. there still are heroes in her story and their story isn't over yet.
Q: How do you explain the sudden change in Jon Snow in s8?
A: There was something different about Jon? You didnât think Jon going from saving the Free Folk to defending the incineration of the population of KL believable? You didnât think Jon killing his own man to save a civilian only to (in the next episode) adopt the view that when friends die you sometimes burn a city to the ground was natural character progression? You didnât think that angry Jon Snow marching off to confront Dany about the slaughter of POWs was the clear precursor to his scene with Tyrion in which his stance seems to have changed to, âOh, she wants to do this everywhere? Â Well, as long as sheâs an equal opportunity mass murderer, weâre good!â
The truth is that what you are perceiving as a âsudden changeâ in Jon is not character progression or regression, it is simply the sad evidence that D&D didnât give two shits, one shit, or even half a shit (do I have that right? Iâm not fluent in shit currency) about Jon. Just about every characterâs story was tanked in order to hide Dark Dany until the last possible second, which was pretty self-defeating as in order to hide it, they also damaged her story, but no one suffered more than Jon who only existed to do three things in s8: kick Danyâs paranoia into high gear by telling her about his parentage, make her feel abandoned by rejecting her sexual advances, kill her.
Iâm not overstating how neglected Jon was because even while he completed his tasks, there was no consensus as to why. Was he wanting to avoid sex with his aunt or was he hoping to assume his âreal nameâ without it causing political/personal problems for them? Was he grossed out by the incest with Dany or was he turned off by the fact that she killed his friendâs family/threatened his? Did he kill Dany for justice/out of duty or for love of the Starks? Other characters say what they think is going on with Jon, everyone in the audience had their opinion, but Jon doesnât get the chance to clarify. Even his ending was a question mark. Whatever they thought the story was, what we saw simply doesnât coalesce.
(This is ridiculously long so read below the cut or on AO3)
people act like northern independence was just a random card that sansa decided to play because she didnât like the Dragon Lady, instead of a recurring political goal for the northern lords and one that they repeatedly expressed interest in pursuing before sansa had even the faintest inkling that sheâd end up queen in the north
#we stan dear friends who suffer through trauma and abuse from the same man. #save one another. risk death together to escape. #and come out on the other side.
#we stan dear friends who suffer through trauma and abuse from the same man. #save one another. risk death together to escape. #and come out on the other side.
someday when u have the time i hope u can make an analysis of every tommy x may scene in peaky
Haha, I wrote this in parts.
So, originally I was going to do this chronologically but Iâm going to start with my favourite exchange between them:
I really like this scene because itâs coy and direct at the same time, like May and Tommy both know why heâs there, he wasnât âin the areaâ, this wasnât a âstop along the wayâ, he starts with those things-you-say excuses when he first arrives and May pokes holes in them
so he does the same thing with discussing the petrol, and itâs so fun because neither one of them are allowing the other to hide behind excuses and pretenses, they are both like, if this is something you want to do, if I am someone you want to spend time with - in whatever capacity - then be honest about it, tell me, say it, except at the same time, theyâre still not quite saying it, theyâre still flirting and talking around whatâs drawn them to each other.
Which leads to, I have seen a couple of takes about how May âusesâ Tommy or sees him as a tool or as a means to an end because of this exchange with Grace
and I always thought that was reductive because Tommy wants to make her feel alive, we see it with this exchange:
and I appreciate it because 1) I think thereâs a level of recognition, considering that Tommy sees himself and there is this perception of Tommy as a sort of island unto himself
2) that look suggests, âWell, Iâm not like âanyoneâ, I wonât steer clear and then
3) it finally leads to the bluntness. Now after briefly consoling her
and after she sort of admits a view of herself as isolated and ghost-like, now heâs telling her that they are going to have sex that nightÂ
i.e. âyouâre not a fucking lighthouse keeperâ
This leads me to their first exchange, which sets the tone for all of their conversations afterwards because itâs straightforward but also under pretense at the exact same time.
Theyâre talking about the filly and they are certainly both interested and love horses so thatâs not only an excuse to talk but theyâre also sizing each other up and letting the other know of their interest, like when Tommy confirms that the man with May is her father and not her husband
or when May letâs Tommy know sheâs unencumbered because her husband is dead:
and then when they end the conversation:Â
Tommy plays coy but is also saying donât be coy, you know what I do even if you donât know what I do:
I also found this exchange interesting because he brings up the idea of whether or not May wants to slum it with him:
and although she is attracted to him and wants to have sex with him so her saying otherwise is a lie (although she also really is there for the horse)
itâs not really about the class difference, the thrill of him being a gangster, I think itâs actually about him and the conversations they can have
which is why itâs after this conversation that he makes a âsmall diversionâ to her house.Â
I wonât turn this into a Grace-bashing post even though I hated her character and their ârelationshipâ haha, but thereâs this sense that Grace knew Tommy because of this:
and I wonât even get into my problems with that entire storyline but May recognized something in Tommy:
that his other love interests claim to understand and yet seem to be constantly surprised by:
I donât know the episodes of series 6 well enough to find the parts Iâm looking for but Lizzie essentially always seemed to be surprised/disappointed by the way Tommy behaved/grieved Ruby and/or Polly when thereâs honestly no indication that heâs responding to things differently than how he normally would (despite the dialogue saying otherwise with nothing to back it up) except for him abstaining from whiskey instead of constantly self-medicating.
Iâve also already spoken about how I feel like thereâs a certain earnestness and softness and courtesy that he expresses with May
and that he actually does feels like heâs lighter with her
(and she gets goldfish because she thinks it would make him smile)
and that he also understands her stubbornness and unwillingness to back down as qualities that he has in himself
as opposed to: Something I never got over is when Grace visits from the States and Tommy calls Campbell to rub it in his face that he was about to fuck her, I was like, oh but sheâs supposed to be âdifferentâ? Heâs supposed to be different with her? Where?
but this part
because he couldâve just left, he couldâve made a clean break but he decides to stayÂ
and sure, Tommy loves the ladies but if he simply wanted female company then he couldâve done what weâve seen him do, which is pay for the services of a sex worker or, frankly, it seems like he couldâve just spent the night at Lizzieâs but he chooses to stay.
I also think this part is telling because it keeps up with the honesty of their relationship, she knows what he may be thinking and sheâs unashamed:
and then their moment together at the Derby, I think itâs so telling that he needs her to know that the time they had together was good and that there are no regrets between them
and the little arm touch!
Maybe Iâll do more about 4x04 later, this is already obscenely long.
uhhh thinkin about how mizu and taigen's relationship was described as "this meeting of the minds, this meeting of the swords, that they could not share with anybody else" in one of the netflix articles about the show
and i'm going crazy because YEAH they're both equally invested about swords and fighting in a way that nobody else in their lives are. and that's just. so important considering we're talking about mizu, who sees her sword as her own soul.
and it's not JUST mizu who's obsessed with fighting. taigen is too. cuz like after their duel at the shindo dojo, as taigen is examining his bald spot in the mirror where mizu cut off his hair, he literally interrupts his own turmoil over losing his honour, just to express his awe, openly admiring mizu's skill DESPITE the fact that mizu just beat his ass and stripped his honour and status from him
then in the next episode, mizu says a very similar line when she examines the cut flower that fowler had pinned to heiji shindo's robe.
this was also such a sudden thing to notice in the middle of their conversation (my interpretation of this is that it hints to fowler's own skills with a blade, and gives mizu information about her enemy being a formidable opponent), but the fact that mizu had such a keen eye and managed to hone in on such a tiny detail from like a foot or two away is interesting because it shows us just how attentive mizu is, especially when it comes to blades and anything to do with them
to mizu (when she's not spiralling and agonising over her own self-hatred and the way the world treats her), swords are not a mere tool for revenge, but an art form which she is fascinated by and loves and admires. we see this from time to time, during rare moments of respite, like when she admires the duel in the beginning of ep4
mizu also takes to heart all the teachings from her years training, while taigen is interestingly less strict about them, basically disregarding some of those teachings as mere pedantry, or even if he doesn't actually really think so, he at least tells mizu as much in his attempt to comfort her after her sword breaks
but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for the more formal aspects of his training at all. because in ep3 when he says this
this line about mount sumeru is not talking about the literal mountain in front of them, but is a recitation of a line from the lotus sutra, which is among the mahayana sutras that they learned as part of their spiritual training, as zen buddhism forms a lot of the basis for samurai doctrines and philosophy. the sutra given more emphasis in the show is the heart sutra that mizu writes on her body in ep7 during her rite of rebirth
so taigen saying this line, as i see it, is a way to bond with mizu, or at least make conversation over their shared knowledge, as we see him await a reaction as soon as he says this. but mizu gives him none, and he looks disappointed/annoyed/frustrated or what have you as he watches her walk off without a word
also we see a little more of their shared knowledge of swordsmanship in the last episode when it's clear that mizu has been training ringo in sword fighting techniques
and later taigen recognises it instantly
they're both nerds about swords and fighting!!! they both respect each other's skills!!!
GOD i really hope in future episodes they get to bond some more over their shared passion and common training and just samurai camaraderie in general!!! mizu clearly loves the artistry of sword fighting so much, she deserves to have a confidant who shares that with her, someone she can talk openly about these things to!!!
because like remember when mikio was telling her about the naginata, she looked soooo uwu in love!!! admiring her husband as he showed off the weapon and told her the benefits of using it!!! believing at the time that she'd found a match who she could openly share her love of martial arts with!! she was having so much fun sparring him too. everyone says fighting is part of her love language and YES it IS!!!
except the difference is that mikioâdue to, among other things, their large age difference and subsequent gap in life experienceâbelieves he is mizu's teacher, rather than her equal. this is the role he's readily taken throughout their marriage, from teaching her how to throw a knife to cut down fruit (not like she needed that particular lesson), to teaching her equestrian skills.
meanwhile taigen and mizu were both kids growing up poor in the same backwater fishing village, which means that they are and always have been PEERS. and this becomes even more pronounced once taigen is stripped of his giant ego and unlearns his prejudice, allowing them both to fully respect each other and view each other as equals
which is again why it frustrates taigen when mizu admits later in this scene that she basically doesn't care about saving the shogun. like he gets mad because it upends his initial belief in their shared goals and aligned values, believing them both to be samurai of equal standing and honour.
ALSO i'd like to add, that though mizu is the better swordsman as we see her win all their brawls and matches, she doesn't surpass him by that much, and mizu knows this.
these words coming from mizu is such a huge compliment all things considered, acknowledging that he was strong enough to deserve fighting her, because shortly before this mizu was just about to say "no one has given me much of a challenge" only for taigen to enter the scene and, well, challenge her.
now combine this with her saying that chiaki's broken blade suits him well, giving to him HER sword which SHE made AND won, as a surety, promising him a duel that he "deserves". it's proof that even though she finds taigen an annoying brat and oftentimes an obstacle to her mission for revenge, she DOES respect him and does value his skills.
IN CONCLUSION nobody else is on their level, nobody else shares their love of swordsmanship and that is such an important factor to their bond and the way they relate to each other. i rest my case your honour
But really the thing about Jon and Sansa scenes is how theyâre always matching energy. Whatâs even more extra is that a good number of their scenes donât start out that way.Â
Their reunion was super sweet but at the beginning you can tell theyâre a bit uneasy around each other. They small talk until Sansa asks whatâs very obviously been on her mind the entire scene:Â âsoooo are you planning to leave me now?â Jon answers so quickly and confidently that you can see Sansa in relative disbelief that someone finally wants to protect her. They share this gazing look because the dialogue earned this comfort and relief.
The second set of gifs starts out with Jon feeling indebted to Sansa for saving him in the BotB and Sansa feeling shame for calling on Littlefinger for help. Neither of them were in a particularly happy place at the start. Then Sansa apologized and Jon made her see that she didnât need to feel sorry for saving them. Jon felt indebted and Sansa made him realize that he doesnât have to feel like he needs to do everything on his own and she validates his place in House Stark. They end up gazing like this because the dialogue earned that happiness and ease with each other.
The third set of gifs starts out with Jon feeling rather comfortable with his planning for the battle and Sansa not feeling heard and feeling unable to contribute because of that. Then Jon doubles down because heâs trying to do this all on his own. His trust level is not very highâŠhe just got murderedâŠso itâs understandable. The same can be said of Sansa. She hasnât wanted to communicate with LF so it was already painful for her to ask for his aid. She doesnât know if heâll actually show up. So sheâs got nothing to go to Jon with on that frontâŠyet she does know Ramsay and feels ignored. The stakes are high. Jon wants Sansa to survive. Sansa wants Jon to survive. But they donât fully trust each other yet. So they end this scene feeling desperate and pessimistic because they so desperately want to make the other safe but they donât know how to say it yet. The heavy-breathing stare looks and feels dramatic because the dialogue earned this angst and nervousness.
The last set is probably my favorite. They are both very very close to saying something that they just havenât been able to say yet. âWhat are we?â is written all over their faces. With everything theyâve been through together in a relatively short amount of time, itâs fairly obvious theyâve never been able to sit still long enough to think about what this other person means to them. The subtext, the subtext, the subtext. Sansa understands that Jon needs her. Jon understands that he needs her. I think the twist through S7 is Sansa realizing that she needs Jon. But in this very moment? Sansaâs look is asking Jon for a commitment to their partnership - and Jonâs look is agony at what that means. He desperately wants to say something and canât. THIS is the angst. Sansaâs attempt to fully get through to Jon and Jonâs desire but self-denial are obvious because the dialogue earned this longing and melancholy.Â
Thereâs a reason Jonsas see their relationship the way we do. These moments in isolation have romantic vibes. Stacked again and again, it becomes an established pattern. The uncomfortable attraction on display by the actors just canât be brushed off by some of us because the gazing is rooted and earned by the nature of their interactions. Love does come in at the eyes, especially in television. Yet, itâs not just the looksâŠitâs EVERYTHING AROUND the looks that makes it impossible to unsee.
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