Trust Us! With Your Complaints

This is a vent blog for people wanting to rant about dumb stuff they've seen against Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. It's for fans of the show who know it's not perfect, but don't think it's nearly as bad as the so-called-critics try and claim it is.

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Welcome!

I'll get straight to it. I've made this blog as a safe place for myself and others to complain about negativity towards the Hellaverse. You see, I try and be a positive person so I want to keep my own blog clear of this kind of rambling, but every now and then I know we all just need to bitch and moan about things that frustrate us, including negative comments about the things we enjoy. So this blog is going to be entirely about letting people complain about the negative things said against Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss and VivziePop.

Now let's make some things clear to any anti's seeing this and getting their knickers in a twist. No one is saying you cannot be critical or dislike a show or creator and no one is saying you cannot have your own opinion - negative or positive.

This is not a blog meant to target any specific individual. Any Asks naming blogs or people will be ignored and any comments directing hate and abuse to anyone (critic or fan) will be removed and the commenter will be blocked.

This is going to be a space to vent for people who enjoy the shows or the creator and want to rant about things they have seen others say and disagree with.

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Speaking of the way antis rewrite-redesign Angel.... I never liked how much emphasis they put on the Mafia stuff.

Like yeah if an character is an former mobster it should shown somehow, I agree, since its not only an "job" but a entire lifestyle that, in Angel's case, was installed on him since he born.

And the show does that by having this character insert 6 tommy guns down his ass and randomly bring them up lmao like remember when Pentious was outed an Vox spy and Angel comically pulled two guns out of his ass? Why do yall think it was THAT specific type of weapon and not like, an pistol?

That alone should be indicatived enough for the first few times, he doesn't need to go around codsplaying the Godfather when he is just chilling at the Hotel. SPECIALLY because you know....he is not with them anymore.

It's funny because the Hatedom will complain about stereotypes in the show and claim how offensive it is for certain characters. Yet they seem to apparently think Angel needs to act in a very specific way to show his mafia side every episode or his backstory somehow doesn't count. It's been a while since Angel died and got away from that life so in my own opinion, the subtle hints the show includes are perfect as they are!

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Antis: The show is badly written because it doesn't address serious subjects!

Helluva: Shows Stolas has PTSD from being kidnapped and tortured.

Same Antis: Ugh, who cares about Stolas being sad, it's just another excuse to make him the "victim" as if being kidnapped and tortured is that bad. I mean it's nothing compared to being cheated on by your husband you don't even like!

Not even an exaggeration. The same Anti I saw complaining about writing skipping these emotional details and how Stolas is awful cause he cheated, completely dismissed the entire idea of him being affected by what happened with Striker. They're so obvious with their unwarranted hate, it's embarrassing.

I'm not surprised in the slightest. The Hatedom's hypocrisy, especially when it comes to Stella and Stolas, is so painfully obvious it's almost funny. And it's all because they don't actually want complexity and character development from Helluva Boss. They just want an excuse to tell everyone else how terrible the show is because God forbid we enjoy something they don't.

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There’s been a stupid ass anon harassing me and my moots over liking Hazbin

Honestly it’s kind of annoying and really shows they have no life, but hey, it just means I have more assholes to block

Damn, I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. Those kind of people are so pathetic and vile. They're definitely not worth the attention - but it's always nice when they offer up themselves to be blocked!

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Whenever Hazbin-critical peeps try rewriting or "fixing" Angel Dust, the result never sits right with me.

For example, there's a YouTuber who's rewriting the entire show and all the characters, and while I think some of their ideas are good (I like their version of Charlie, for example), I'm not a fan of what they've done to Angel.

Instead of being an ex-mafia guy in his thirties who died in 1947, he's now a hippie in his twenties who died in the 1970s. The author is using him (and his seeming lack of desire to change himself) to explore the theme of the sin of sloth, because in their opinion, canon Angel doesn't have dreams or goals because we don't know exactly why he's at the Hazbin Hotel.

Firstly - we do know why! It's free room and board! It's an escape from Val! It's not spelled out for us, but we can infer it!

Secondly, and more importantly, I fear they've changed too much of Angel's character. Canon Angel is a ex-mafia man, and also gay, and also a sex worker, and also a drug addict, and also trapped in an abusive relationship, and also best friends with a pyromaniac punk chick, and also a devoted mama to a pet pig. It's all those intersections that make him unique and make him interesting. The rewritten man is just a generic hippie.

I'm fine with people making hippie Hazbin OCs and calling them Weed or Dope or Mary Jane or something. Just don't pretend they're Angel Dust. They are not the same.

I also saw a rewrite idea on Tumblr, and it went a bit like this: "Angel Dust being a former burlesque performer (maybe even a trans woman) who initially sells their soul to someone where they go on to perform burlesque at a club in hell, only for Valentino to sweep in, kill the person in question, and claim control of Angel. Leading to Angel being forced into an industry they didn't want."

Firstly, I don't mind Angel being a trans woman (because woo, trans rep!), but I already quite like him as a cis gay man who looks amazing in dresses and also recognises it doesn't make him any less of a man. That's still a story worth telling.

Secondly, I don't like the change that makes him drawn into the adult film industry against his will. I prefer the interpretation that he wanted that career and that kind of stardom and he was excited to do it at first, only to realise how terrible his boss is. Have him wrestle with self-blame and false guilt! Have him learn to unpick which parts of his situation he should take responsibility for and which parts are entirely Val's fault! That, to me, is so much more interesting than making him purely a helpless damsel. Give my man some agency!

(Plus, how would this rewrite work if Angel was changed to be a trans woman? Would trans women want to see their Hazbin trans rep being sex-trafficked?)

Sorry for the long submission! Turns out I had a lot of thoughts to think.

No apologies necessary! That's exactly what this blog is for! Getting it all out of your system!

And I very much agree with you on basically everything. If you're going to change that much about an existing character, why not just create an OC that you insert into the story? If Angel has a completely different backstory, altered personality and some very drastic design changes, what's the point of even calling him Angel!

I also agree that it seems these people are missing some key points in why Angel acts the way he does and why aspects of his story connects with the journey he is taking. It also falls into that typical category of the Hatedom where if they dislike it, it must be bad. No room for differing opinions here. Never mind those of us who actually enjoy the story being told and actually do want to see it play out the way it is.

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Some people get really confused when "He SUCKS I love him <3" and other similar sentiments also extend to somewhat bigoted characters? Like murder is fine but sexism is too far. A lot of people act like the way Blitz acts makes the show irredeemable but his entire point is that he isn't a good person! He laughs at the homeless, calls Millie Moxxie's ho, refers to enbies as 'thems' and generally is pretty, intentionally, bigoted! And people act like he's Viv's self insert or something

Those are the people I genuinely can't understand why they started the show in the first place. They seem so truly offended by the characters toxic traits, as if the pilot of Helluva didn't involve I.M.P murdering a child and dumping the body back into the weeping mothers arms with a cheerful smile. The pilot set the tone very clearly that these characters were awful to anyone not in their circle and now the audience is seeing it play out, they suddenly are upset by it?

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I’m sorry, but I really fucking hate people with a stick up their ass who are like “this piece of media doesn’t specifically fit MY standards???? Well I guess that means NOBODY CAN LIKE IT GRRRRRR” (yes, this also goes for the TADC fan/hatedom.

Honestly! The number of complaints for the series I've seen that narrows to "I wanted this specific thing to happen and therefore the show is objectively bad for not doing that just for me" is so ridiculous. And it's from the people claiming to be critics yet can't understand the difference between a personal preference and bad writing. Add that with the harassment they give of anyone who disagrees with them and dares enjoy the series for what it is and it's just such a childish attitude!

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A few days ago, I was watching a YouTube video about the scene where Vox tortures Angel, and I read a comment that basically asked, "What's to stop Angel Dust taking his angelic Tommy gun and just blowing Valentino away?"

I replied with my opinion, that Angel isn't going to shoot Val (yet) because he's been traumatised by his abuse and isn't mentally able to attack Val like that.

Normally I just scroll past views I disagree with, but here I replied because I thought I could add some useful insight to the conversation that no-one else was mentioning (they were focused on the possible wording of the soul contract).

We exchanged a few more comments, and I think we were both quite civil. Here's part of their latest reply:

"It takes a strong person to endure an abuser, but it takes a stronger person to walk away. Given what Val made Angel do to Cherri Bomb, I'd say that's enough motivation to blow his head off. If he was willing to tell him off to protect Niffty, he can step up for his friends and kill the bastard."

I'm debating whether to craft another response, or just walk away.

They have made an interesting point there about wanting revenge for what happened to Cherri.

But I can't get over "It takes a strong person to endure an abuser, but it takes a stronger person to walk away." Like ... what?!

I think my issue with it is something I mentioned in an earlier reply: Why do so many Hellaverse critics claim that Angel, the victim, should take responsibility for fixing this situation, by leaving or even murdering his abuser? Why don't they instead demand that Val, the abuser, must stop being an abuser?

To get Biblical for a second, why do so many people demand Angel remove the specks of sawdust from his eye and ignore the many planks in Val's eyes?

Yeah, I feel like claiming Angel should just shoot Val already completely undermines the psychological abuse and control abusers have over their victims. It's kind of like those people who tell domestic violence victims they "should have just left" when the abuse started. It not only is dismissive of abusers ability to manipulate and control, but like you said, Anon; it also just ends up being a case of victim blaming! Which is beyond disgusting!

The Hatedom's "opinions" of Angel's storyline never seem quite right to me. They either simplify the entire situation (expecting Angel to just walk away/expecting Charlie to snap her fingers and fix everything) or they want the story to be rushed, like they want Val to be killed off in Season 2 and Angel to be free with no actual development or growth on his part.

But I do tend to find they are among the hardest people to have a conversation with. Maybe you'll have better luck than I have, Anon, because in the past they're usually pretty quick to shut me out when I've tried explaining how I see the Angel-Val story.

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Sometimes, I swear, I just want to grab some of the Hatedom by their shoulders and shake them and scream "IT'S JUST A FUCKING JOKE! IT'S REALLY NOT THAT DEEP!"

Can't say much since I don't know the exact context of this ask. And yet, at the same time, I still completely agree! 😂

There are definitely some things in shows that are open to being analysed for a deeper meaning and other things that should be called out when people don't realise the affect of what they're saying. But there are just as many times when it's genuinely not that big a deal. And if you don't find something funny, you always have the option to just walk away and ignore it.

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You know what im done with? acting like the show has a checklist and if it doesnt get everything on that list then its bad representation. dont get me wrong, i think representation is important. having different sexualities and races in a series is what draws me to watch stuff lately. but theres a difference between having it and forcing it in. seeing people critic because theres not enough lesbians or theres not any gender fluid characters or not any of this or any of that when there are so many of other sexualities being represented, it makes a joke of the whole situation! especially when its usually said by people who watch no end of other shows that have a 99% straight cast with a 1% either bisexual or gay but they sure do love those shows and never demand that they are bad because they dont include the rest of the lgbtq. and its not even just sexualities. like these people complaining theyre not enough poc. if thats a genuine issue for you then fight for it but where is that fight for all the other shows that are 97% white 2% black and 1% everything else? why arent you saying they need to be cancelled or boycotted or the creator of those shows should be doxxed and harassed off the internet? its just another case of performative activism by people who dont actually care about these things but will pretend to if it means shitting on a show they dont like.

I feel like there's definitely a rise in performative activism lately. Just like all the things you said, Anon. They'll act outraged at things from Hazbin and Helluva not having more variations but they'll support every other generic Mainstream Hollywood show that doesn't include half of what Vivzie has.

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Anon: A M/F presenting relationship with at least one queer person in it doesn't automatically make the relationship straight. It's still a queer relationship.

Your tag: If you're queer in a straight relationship, you're still queer!

I think something got lost in translation here.

Yeah I'm gonna be honest I do not know what I was thinking when I made that tag 😂 I'm blaming it on being half asleep because I definitely did not mean that. I think I must have been trying for something else but I can't even remember what that could have been so I just deleted the tag altogether. I do apologise for that!

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I dislike how Vaggi being loyal to Charlie is being used as a "criticism" against her, rather than being acknowledged as a positive trait.

Seriously, it's annoying how people dismiss Vaggi's entire character on the grounds that she's... devoted to Charlie? They're making mountains out of molehills here. And it's hypocritical that they don't extend their criticisms to Lute, when A) she's outright fanatical compared to Vaggi, and B) Adam is downright unlikeable compared to Charlie being flawed-but-well-meaning.

Justice for Vaggi.

I am 100% with you there, Anon! Vaggi being a supportive girlfriend does not mean her entire character is just "A supportive girlfriend". God forbid we show healthy relationships with partners stand by and help the dreams of their loved ones. And it's not surprising when there is hypocrisy involved. I've long since noticed almost all Hatedom complaints are connected with some kind of hypocrisy for another character or storyline in the show.

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The thing about belittling queer characters for "not being in queer relationships" is, this is legit something people irl face in and out of the community, and have for DECADES. People in the community who are in so-called "passing" or "non-queer" looking relationships have been fighting to be acknowledged as queer relationships. Because they don't just suddenly stop being queer the moment their relationship meets a certain level of heteronormativity. It's the "not queer enough" fallacy in full force. Like with the label queer itself, unless the people actually in the relationship say otherwise, the relationship is queer if at least one person in it is. Because their queerness doesn't suddenly stop existing once it "passes". There's so many nuances that people not in the relationship are not privy to. And to declare that a relationship isn't queer because it doesn't meet a certain quota of queerness is just queerphobia.

Genuinely, that kind of Queerphobia can even be worse than your typical homophobia sometimes since it's coming from within our own community. I'm almost baffled how people who have been on the end of dismissive discrimination can do the same to others. Or how tone deaf some "ally's" can be when they talk down to LGBTQ+ people for not being in the right kind of queer relationship.

It's why the scene of Moxxie talking to his dad is among some of my top favourite moments in the whole series. It's such a simple line and yet it meant a lot for Moxxie to establish "yes I am married to a woman and yes I love that woman more than anything and YES I am still also bisexual".

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I hate how a lot of fans are jumping the gun on Lilith, when she hasn't taken a major role yet. She doesn't even have a speaking voice!

What I mean is, I'm seeing a lot of pre-emptive vitriol for Lilith just based off of the bits and pieces as to what she is as a character. It would be one thing if it's coming from frustration over Lilith leaving her family up to dry for over seven years--indeed, she doesn't seem to be that nice of a person--but these people are somehow already convinced that Lilith is the most hateable character in the show.

What makes this more insufferable is that these negative theories for Lilith seem to come from toxic Adam lovers and RadioApple shippers; the former desperately trying to make Lilith "wrong" for leaving Adam, the latter looking for an excuse to have Lucifer break up with her and hook up with Alastor. So basically, misogyny strikes again.

I know Lilith doesn't seem to be the most likeable of characters so far, but let's reserve judgement for her until after S3.

Sadly the one thing the Hatedom and Fandom have in common is that they both have their share of sexist in the group. Female characters will always have to work twice as hard as male characters and it's always worse when there's a ship involved. Best thing is to ignore them and fight all their misogynist posts with a positive one of your own!

I personally have high hopes for Lilith... But as you said, Anon. We won't know anything until we actually see her in Season 3.

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I'm starting to wonder if hellaverse antis are starting to invade the fandom under the guise of being fans who are just anti certain ships because I've already had to block at least ten well known hellaverse blogs who claim they were anti different big ships and decided they wanted to be queerphobic and antis and queerphobes overlap. Saying things like m/f couples aren't queer even if the people in the couple are queer individually, saying trans people in relationships with the opposite gender aren't queer anymore because they're in a relationship, that nonbinary genders aren't valid, and some pretty gross shit about aromantic people.

Happy Pride Month I guess.

Genuinely I have that problem so much. Especially if they claim they're just anti a ship but that ship is ALL they talk about... And the phobic stuff is genuinely concerning because these are the same people who will bend over backwards to claim they're the good ones. Yet they belittle queer characters for not being in queer relationships - something which is a legit problem in our every day world as well!

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(tw: grooming and csam mention)

this shit

on this post (had to nab my reblog cuz the og poster's acc deactivated)

i already blocked the dude but i'm so goddamn tired bro 🫩

Good call on the block. Stuff like this is so damn messed up and shows the Hatedom cannot separate their personal opinion of a show, with the actual evil of real people. They dislike Vivzie therefore she must be on the same level as literal groomers. Not to mention the open phobia that comes with dismissing an LGBTQ+ person for no other reason than, again, that they have a personal dislike.

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The thing about Hellaverse antis that kills me is that they unironically side with the villains/antagonists because they believe that they're "actually right", even though their supposed "points" are merely surface level.

For starters, Stella's anger at Stolas for supposedly "cheating on her" is invalid because she wasn't nice to him in the first place. Striker might be right in that a lot of Hellborn royals are privileged assholes, but as Stolas points out, he's working for one of those privileged assholes. As a matter of fact, Striker is a hugely selfish hypocrite, as he also looks down on the imps he supposedly champions. Vox puts on airs of being a rebellion leader for the Sinners, rallying them to take over Heaven as vengeance for the Exterminations, but it's really just an act for him to fulfill his megalomania. Perhaps most egregiously, Adam, Lute, and the other Exorcists pre-Abel use said Exterminations as an excuse to have fun and act on their xenophobia--Lute especially being the worst of the bunch.

If one were to actually watch the shows, you can see that these characters' supposed "good points" aren't born from genuine concern or altruism, they're only in it for themselves or to make others suffer. I don't see how anyone can genuinely root for these kinds of characters, especially the Exorcists.

The Hatedom has such a weird need to be against the show in every way which means they need to side with the villains, except they have a high-and-mighty attitude so they need to twist the villains around into somehow not being villains after all. The only problem with that is everything you just said, Anon!

Traumatic villains who think they're the good guys and do bad for the right reasons can be really interesting characters. But not every villain has to be like that. Some are just greedy and selfish and bitterly hateful for the sake of it and they're just as good as the traumatic villains.

This is my way of once again throwing out: It's okay to like Stella and Striker and Vox and Adam and Lute. But like them for what they are, not what you pretend them to be.